Roel,..........very Nice work bringing Terys voice out in the mix from Crisp & Clear...what a diference!

I also want to say "BRAVO" on your other tunes on your website...very impressive playing and vocals....the SD-1 really sounds fantastic as always....
thanx for sharing with us!!

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www.donnypesce.com

Hé Roel,

You're the king !!Heel, heel grote klasse..

Terry,

Great work, very impressive voice ..

JJ

[This message has been edited by Daddy JJ (edited 01-05-2004).]

Thanks for your kind words

What happened :
Terry sent me the separate tracks for drums, fretless, aguitar, eguitar, congas and vocals.

This is how I tried to improve :
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Terry,

I got your files and tried to change the sound image a little.

a. Because your drums-track was a mono one, I took a new one from my SD1 (stereo)

b. Your fretless-bass has many clips so I put another bass from SD1 as an extra, to put some extra 'low' in it. Your fretless is still there but at a lower volume.

c. The e-guitar caused lots of noise and distortion and seemed to have too little treble, so I tried to EQ and remove the noise.

d. Your Vocal track was very good.... except a little 'gap' at 65 seconds. I added the nice Trueverb Stereo (WAVES)

e. I panned a little with the guitars and some reverbs added.

f. Because my equipment is already packed for a gig tomorrow after work I did not use the TC Voiceworks.

g. The congas were recorded mono.... so not much to change there, only a little room reverb.


I think your voice is great Terry and I hope you like this sound-image : No tunnel-alike voice & clear with a nice bright (long) reverb !

All operations on Cubase SX with a few plugins. (about 60 minutes fiddling around with time-stampdifferences per track)

Please let me know what you think of it !

I still do not understand why e.g. the drums track and TC have a mono image..... perhaps you have an idea ?

kindest regards,

Roel

Roel,
Got the file thank you.

Hmmmm....I have A/B'd the two cuts about 15x's now. I do like the clarity on the vocals of your mix.....like everyone else giving their honest feedback here....and as usual for me going against the grain. I have to say I prefer my original mix to my ears. The same as when we debate over board sounds, it's all subjective.

Now I do like how you brought in the acoustic guitar later in the cut, that was cool, think I'll steal that idea from you on the remix if you don't mind.

What I hear in your remix critique wise:
I assume you're using Hall reverb on the instruments? The electric guitar to me sounds like it's playing in a different space to me. The echo I hear from hall reverb on the drums I don't care for much to my ears and is why I don't use hall reverb. Overall to me the mix has a harsher more treblie feel, as opposed to a warmer mid/bassie feel to me which I prefer. It's one of the reasons I prefer the warmer Yamaha boards over the Korg harsher sound too.

This in no way says your mix is bad, quite the contrary it's a great mix, just preference.

I tend to mix mine to a warmer small club mix, (I guess too many years of playing them) yours is a more open airy concert hall type mix, again to my ears.

All seem to prefer your mix here though, so what do I know anyway.

Thanks for doing this and I am going to borrow/steal a couple of your ideas here though.

About the stereo imaging, I'm not really sure without further exploration what to make of it. Not normally doing it all this way, I'm sure I could have should have done something differently. I believe it was something in the mp conversion that screwed it up and exporting from Sonar. All tracks were recorded on the Tascam stereo seperate tracks with stereo panning. Then I re-recorded each track stereo panned hl & hr into Sonar.

Thanks for putting the effort into this and I am sure all including myself have benefitted from it.

FWIW....my wife liked that she could hear my voice better on your mix.
Terry


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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 01-06-2004).]

Thanks to all for following and commenting on the cut and thread and is the primary reason as I see it that we've all come together here, to share and learn from differing opinons and each other.

Big time thanks to Roel for taking on the task and time out of his schedule to participate in this.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Terry correct me if I'm wrong you mean you prefer your voice as it was on the original version??


Tony

Ok Terry,

I'll remove the file tonight.
To be honest I was thinking the guitar was meant to pop in later because the track you sent me has a looooong 'empty' start.

About the stereo-recordings :
There must be something wrong with your input-wiring because not a single stereo-file came in. Please do a quick check and pan your drum-machine to see the levels go from left to right. (OUTPUT VU indicators)
Another quick/dirty check is to pull the jacks from the instrument one by one.... touching the tip (wet finger) should give noise/hum at the corresponding speaker. (Left OR Right)

Some signal clipping occurs often, so check your inputlevels. (led's?)

I still think your method of recording the a-guitar is not OK. It looks to me the guitarist is a few meters from the microphone. The C1000 has a cardioide char. and the front should be pointed to the soundhole...... not sideways.
Correct placement generates a clear, bright and direct sound with only very few room accoustic-effect.

It's obvious we all have different opinions/tastes..... I'm happy at least some of the forum members did like 'my' mix-settings. I think your voice deserves the extra attention I tried to give it...... again my personal opinion !!

Roel

More observations: Terry's mix sounds (to me) like the music is coming from a small box while Roel's mix appears open (transparent) and airy. The other dramatic difference I hear between the mixes is that the bongo rhythm (which I found overly distracting) on Terry's original, were dramatically reduced (practically eliminated) in Roel's mix, allowing the side stick to be heard. I also notice that a (new?) drum track (which includes hi-hat & cymbal) has been added to the mix. I didn't hear it on Terry's mix. Reducing the bongo (timbale?) rhythm in the mix also allows the acoustic guitars to be heard better as well. My only suggestion for Roel's mix is that the bongos might be brought up just a slight tad so they can be perceived slightly more (but not too much). I've found this project both fasinating & eye opening. It's really nice to hear your talents 'brought together' like this. - Scott

Scott,

You are right about the new drumtrack. The new SD1 drumtrack is stereo and is slightly different from Terry's (mono)track. (see previous posted message)

My first goal was to refresh the Terry's voice and for some reason I had difficulties synchronising de congas to the other tracks.(tempo unstable)....what resulted in a lower level

Roel

Tony,
The answer is yes and I seem to be the only one. My wife even liked Roel's vocal mix better as well, but prefered my instrument mix. What probably would be the very best though, is something in between Roel's and mine I think.

Scott I think your observations are valid and in the remix I will do, I plan to drop the congas back as they were too loud in the original mix. I think you are right on too about the general difference between Roel's mix and mine as I said. Roel's is more of a concert hall hard wall feel mine is more of a small club soft wall feel to me anyway. There's nothing wrong with either and just a matter of preference as to what one likes.

Roel, I have rechecked all my inputs and it's all good. I believe it got lost in the translation to Sonar and then to mp.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 01-06-2004).]