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#183308 - 11/19/03 10:40 AM Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
Heyoop Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/99
Posts: 97
To Liontracs; Are you going to introduce a basic model just a plain sample playback synth using opensource technology in which we can upgradeable until it becomes a full blown X-76?

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#183309 - 11/19/03 11:59 AM Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
parker Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally posted by RicFreak:


"My previous messages haven't been accepted, and this is fine:"

Riccardo, I'm sorry for saying anything that causes you to feel this way. It's not our intention. Please understand, we believe in a philosiphy and are developing a product that is its result. It's a big investment and I'm certain that our natural instinct is to protect.

"That said, one thing is clear (to me) in this thread: what lionstracs is currently trying to sell is little more than a promise:"

Our motive is to present a project that we're developing, establish interaction with an informed community, recieve feedback, learn and make adjustments. The product isn't ready for market so we're not selling it but we're sell ourselves and our philosiphy.

"only few demos available, very low in quality (I am not talking about MP3 quality,"

I thought the demos had some very good qualities and as I admitted in a previous message some bad sounds. Maybe I'll listen to them again. I will recieve an X-76 on November 27 and will test it in my studio. If everything goes well, I'll release some Ron Parker demos by the end of December.

"now seems that they need people collaboration to build addictional sounds database..."

Wrong!

My communication has led you to an entirely wrong perception. To be perfectly clear; Lionstracs does not need help building a Soundfont library.

Because I am capable of producing high quality sound, I assume many of us are and would appreciate the option to include our sounds in the Soundfont library. I proposed to Domencio that he make it possible for users to modify the X-76 Soundfont library. Domenico has responded with a solution.

I'm not sure if I like the solution becaue it will cause me to be a go between for submission to inclusion. Reguardless, I'll give it careful consideration. The pros:
1. evolving and customized Soundfont Library controlled by MS user community
2. participation is optional

The Cons:
1. deciding what's included and what isn't
2. donating my personal time

Reguarding pros; I see no negatives in an evolving library. Does anyone else?

Reguarding cons; deciding what's accepted for inclusion can be done with online polls available to MS users. That's easy. The interesting issue is, copyright infringement.

There's more than one solution for circumventing legal concerns. Run an unofficial Soundfont library that is exchanged with P2P networking tools and amongst users and without Lionstracs involvment. This library would include Lionstracs sounds and user sounds. This might absolve Lionstracs of any copyright infringements.

Or we run an official Lionstracs Soundfont Library but all submissions include the mechanics of accepting an agreement that holds the submitter responsible for copyright infringement ie "I, declare copyright ownership of FILENAME and license it for non-exclusive use and for redistribution in original and modified form..."

My personal time is the only variable that seriously concerns me. If the community effort for modifying the Soundfont library is popular, there will be other people that want to donate time towards maintaining the project. I picture this as a free of monetary costs service where anyone can submit sounds for inclusion.

"I think that the all-software approach will surely make lionstracs a winner. In the long run."

Obviously we're also optomistic but don't forget the MS isn't just a disk based system. There are eleven Lionstracs DSP cards.

"Thanks in advance for any answer."

I didn't have time to answer all your concerns but hopefully my reply will help you trust that we're sincerly interested in providing satisfactory explanations and having a productive relationship. Afterall, anything else is boring and a waste of valuable time.

Well, I gotta go read about Micheal Jackson's newest idiocies.

Ron

Riccardo

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#183310 - 11/19/03 10:07 PM Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
I think user participation in a Sound Library is a great idea. Those willing to submit sounds are free to do so. If they do submit 'awesome' sounds there may be a rating system 1-5, etc., much like for instance Winamp Media Player uses a rating system for plug-in authors. If the Lionstracs user base grows to be a substantial one over time there could be a great impact (for good) where owners and users of the Media Station X76 could share sounds and there could possibly be a intricately woven 'community' of support and growth and "participation" for the Media Station X76. What a thrill to be able to create and share great sounds with other users of the Media Station X76. Support for a product can only be a positive thing. I see it as almost like a Linux community where users participate in the growth and refinement of its OS. A person is able to make and compile a new Kernel or add-on for the Linux OS. It is the same situation with the Media Station X76. People helping people make a better product -with better 'sounds', in the case of the X76 Media Station.

Best regards,
Mike

PS: I hope some good Demos can be made by Ron Parker. Something to 'highlight' your product, not detract from it.
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#183311 - 11/19/03 10:52 PM Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
elle Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/00
Posts: 95
Domenik,
Sbenno,

I'm a bit worried over this soundfont focus.
I thought soundfonts were a dying business.

Everybody is now publishing sample libraries based on some included softsampler player engine (kontakt, ...), not sound fonts.

We're talking gigabytes of disk streaming samples, playable with 512-1Gb of ram instead of 16-128 Mb soundfonts;

goto http://www.garritan.com/mp3.html#GPO for some sound comparisons ($249!) and this business is just starting; (see http://www.zero-g.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=803)

If one could add (soft)arrangers to it ...
Call it a hardware supported FLR2003

Or maybe ask Jos Maas' onemanband (http://home.zonnet.nl/josmaas/onemanband/index.htm) for a linux version??

I sincerely hope the linux world has an answer to these 'sonic' trends.

If the answer is yes, THEN you're hardware all-in-one concept would really shine.

Keep up the good work!

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#183312 - 11/20/03 06:54 AM Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 732
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris A:
Speaking from a design standpoint, the only reason a manufacturer places the wheels at the top is when the instrument in question has an 88 note keybed (as in each of the examples given).

Placing the wheels at the left side of an 88 note keybed renders the instrument way too long to fit inside any case. There is also the general belief that an 88-note instrument is purchased primarily for it's pianistic appeal and that performance wheels, when provided at all, are more of a "bonus feature" to facilitate optimal use of non-piano-type sounds.

Thus, a compromise will generally be accepted by buyer's of 88 note synths/controllers. In the case of 61 or 76-key instruments however, these restrictions do not apply.


Chris, I think that most of us in this forum are interested in instruments which are easy to carry, and are concerned with the size and weight of the instruments. I will submit that the same logic which you apply to the 88-key instruments (which usually are not even portable enough to be frequently moved from gig to gig by a solo performer) should be applicable to the 76 key instruments (as in Ketron SD1).

However, there is also an alternative solution - Yamaha used it on one of the eraly PSRs, and I thought it was quite practical. They used a rotating cylinder under the keys, so that you could control it with your thumb or even a heel of your palm. I think this could be a good approach to keep the frame and size of the instrument short and light.

Another concern with the Neko/Liontracks - for any kind of studio functionality we would need a totally silent computer - no fans, and (preferrably) no disk. I am not sure that either one is addressing this problem.

Regareds,
Alex
_________________________
Regards,
Alex

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#183313 - 11/20/03 10:32 AM Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
Chris A Offline
Member

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 167
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ,
Quote:
Originally posted by Alex K:
Chris, I think that most of us in this forum are interested in instruments which are easy to carry, and are concerned with the size and weight of the instruments. I will submit that the same logic which you apply to the 88-key instruments (which usually are not even portable enough to be frequently moved from gig to gig by a solo performer) should be applicable to the 76 key instruments (as in Ketron SD1).

However, there is also an alternative solution - Yamaha used it on one of the eraly PSRs, and I thought it was quite practical. They used a rotating cylinder under the keys, so that you could control it with your thumb or even a heel of your palm. I think this could be a good approach to keep the frame and size of the instrument short and light.

Another concern with the Neko/Liontracks - for any kind of studio functionality we would need a totally silent computer - no fans, and (preferrably) no disk. I am not sure that either one is addressing this problem.

Regareds,
Alex


I do remember that roll-bar-under-the-keys thing on the older PSRs. While it was certainly compact, it wouldn't be my first choice for a performance controller. Manufacturers have often used novely ideas for performance controls on portable keyboards. I guess it depends how important the pitch and mod controls are to each user. While some people never use them at all, certain pro players frequently have to have the performance wheel assemblies replaced because of excessive use.

The main issue with pitch wheel placement is not so much about whether it's at the top or bottom as it is about how close the wheel is to the side of the instrument. What's important is having somewhere to wrap your fingers, elevating your hand slightly so that the heel of your palm can move freely without rubbing against the front panel while your thumb operates the wheel. This can be accomplished effectively with wheels at the top or bottom, as long as they are close to the edge.

With mid-panel placement, the heel of your left hand will drag across the front panel; resricting the movement of your thumb on the wheel, making your hand sore and, over time, rubbing off the paint in a small arc. The only way to avoid this is to form a kind of spider with your fingers to get the heel of your hand off the panel. Although this works it's not a very stable anchor and you will need to keep adjusting the position of your hand.

This is probably more information than anybody wanted about pitch wheel placement! Sorry about that. It just so happens that I spent hundreds of hours researching this particular issue for a manufacturer once in a past life. Guess I need to get out more


[This message has been edited by Chris A (edited 11-20-2003).]

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#183314 - 11/21/03 10:13 AM Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
parker Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally posted by elle:
Domenik,
Sbenno,

I'm a bit worried over this soundfont focus.
I thought soundfonts were a dying business.

Everybody is now publishing sample libraries based on some included softsampler player engine (kontakt, ...), not sound fonts.

We're talking gigabytes of disk streaming samples, playable with 512-1Gb of ram instead of 16-128 Mb soundfonts;

goto http://www.garritan.com/mp3.html#GPO for some sound comparisons ($249!) and this business is just starting; (see http://www.zero-g.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=803)

If one could add (soft)arrangers to it ...
Call it a hardware supported FLR2003

Or maybe ask Jos Maas' onemanband (http://home.zonnet.nl/josmaas/onemanband/index.htm) for a linux version??

I sincerely hope the linux world has an answer to these 'sonic' trends.

If the answer is yes, THEN you're hardware all-in-one concept would really shine.

Keep up the good work!



Hi Elle,

Reguarding Soundfonts as a dying business, thanks for the tip. I'm pretty out of touch. I think Benno and one of the other guys brought up the same point as you. It'll be simple enough to translate sample libraries to Soundfont libraries which is how we can view this. Make any sense?

Benno is the person who should reply to you but he's busy. He is developing the sampler that you're interested in and has reported excellent results. I'm under the impression that the sampler will be working when I recieve a MS prototype on November 27.

Reguarding sound libraries, Benno has been contacted by someone who I believe has asked us to not name them, yet. The person has sent Benno their library so it's very likely that everything will work out. Without naming the person I can only say that you already have. Is that vague and yet indicative enough? Ah, the beauty of vaporware.

Ron Parker

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#183315 - 11/21/03 10:24 AM Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
parker Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris A:

The main issue with pitch wheel placement is not so much about whether it's at the top or bottom as it is about how close the wheel is to the side of the instrument. What's important is having somewhere to wrap your fingers, elevating your hand slightly so that the heel of your palm can move freely without rubbing against the front panel while your thumb operates the wheel. This can be accomplished effectively with wheels at the top or bottom, as long as they are close to the edge.

With mid-panel placement, the heel of your left hand will drag across the front panel; resricting the movement of your thumb on the wheel, making your hand sore and, over time, rubbing off the paint in a small arc. The only way to avoid this is to form a kind of spider with your fingers to get the heel of your hand off the panel. Although this works it's not a very stable anchor and you will need to keep adjusting the position of your hand.

This is probably more information than anybody wanted about pitch wheel placement! Sorry about that. It just so happens that I spent hundreds of hours researching this particular issue for a manufacturer once in a past life. Guess I need to get out more


[This message has been edited by Chris A (edited 11-20-2003).]


Hi Chris,

After reading your information, I checked a couple keyboards at the studio and both were designed with either joystick or wheels located so the player can wrap their fingers. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the great information.

Ron Parker

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#183316 - 12/12/03 08:38 AM Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dear friends
just changed some hardware parts in the Mediastation.
For the Mediastation standard and Pro version I had change the LCD 8.2" 640X480 pixel in to TFT 8.4", 800X600 pixel, 18Bit color accelered and FULL Touchscreen!
Now is possible use the finger like the original mouse pointer in both 3 VGA OUT: Internal TFT, extelnal TFT and TV.
Each application may be controlled by finger, without use the standard mouse! It mean: Mozilla browser, emails, Audio editing, Ardur, Muse, Video application....all what you like, with mouse or your finger.

In the Mediastation standard, will remain the 2 wheels: Pitch bend and Modulation.
In the Mediastation Pro, ( AMD 3.2Ghz CPU) no wheels in the cover but 2 NEW Joystik Balls.
Joystik 1: Pitch bend and Modulation for the keyboard
Joystik 2: X-Y data entry controls, like for the lights Goldenscan, move the windows GUI or Video GUI....all what you want to do in realtime!

regards
Domenik

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#183317 - 12/12/03 08:40 AM Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi guys
for your know, the distribution contract with Music Industries corporation is made!
jannuary 15 we are hosted by Music Industries corporation at the NAMM, HALL C, both#4334.

We come there with 2 mediastation, the standard and the Pro version
Each mediastation will shown with: external TFT 15" monitor, PLASMA TV 42 or 50", DSL cable for IM, LIVE videoconference, 2 main speaker and 2 monitor speakers. NO MIXER and more external device.

The all show will do by MEDIASTATION ONLY!

Cheers
domenik

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