The big question, George, would be Motif rack of Triton rack? I know there are many differences (Samplers, arpeggiators, etc.) but you are one of the few people that get to listen extensively to them back-to-back.

Who has the better overall sounds?

I've played with the Triton Rack before and as far as acoustic and good synth sounds go I think the Motif Rack is better than the Tritons (as far as sound quality is concerned).... I think the Tritons have taken a step backward with their acoustic sounds and are really aiming more to the dance, techno, hip hop group.. The acoustic sounds aren't bad, but I think Yamaha has the edge.

Squeak

Forgot to add.. I've have also had the chance to spend some time using the Motif 6 as well, and I honestly think just that keyboard alone sounds better than any Triton model.. I'm not saying the Tritons are bad because they're not, but again it seems everytime they take a few steps fowards with new technology, they take a step backwards and compromise some things, and I think they have been doing this with their acoustic sounds over the past few years..

Squeak

This brings up an interesting question: Can you take a rack sound module such as the Motif Rack, midi it into your arranger, and use the rack's sounds to power the arranger's arrangements? In this manner you could pick the very best drums, strings, sax's, etc. for each part and have one brilliant sounding arrangement.

Now the question, is it hard to do and do any of you do it?

In a way I guess you could do this.. This would probably have some limitation though.. Here's a good example.. This actually would work great with the PSR's because they have the feature where you can turn voiceR123 ect off and on.. Since you're just going to midi the keyboard to the rack unit, all you'd have to do is record your backing arrangments the way you like on the keyboard (of course using the keyboards internal voices) Then all you'd have to do is either turn the volume all the way down or even turn of R1 on your keyboard because you'll be using the keyboard to control the Rack.. I think the keyboard will still send the midi messages out even if your turn off R1.. Plus if you didn't want to do that just turn down the volume to R1 all the way and you should be able to use the motif voices with the mix.. I remember when I hooked up my PSR-550 via midi to use the keyboards keys to control the sounds on my drum machine. I think I ended up having to either turn R1 off or turn the volume all the way down.

Squeak

We might be able to go a step further with this if AJ (Bluezplayer) would give us a hand... AJ has a Yamaha Motif-6, and I think a Korg PA-80.. I'm pretty sure you can midi the PA-80 to the Motif and use the Korg to play the Motifs voices.. He could then try to use the Motifs solo voices with the auto accomp of his PA-80.. Care to give us a hand on this one AJ..?

Squeak

Thank you guys for your responses. I am convinved that Motiff rack has a superb sound as compared to the older Yamaha modules. But still in the almost $1000 range. Its too expensive for my need. I only need the awesome sounds of that cheappy plastic toylike PSR. I already have a PSR-GX76 which is better sounding than the QY's and MU's. I just don't want to bring or set up another keyboard on the stage.

Have guys seen the Diskclavier GranTouch piano? It has a separate module on its side under. That thing sounds really amazing. Is Yamaha selling those module separately? or will it work if we connect it to a synth controller?

Dan

I do it all the time ( use the PA80 and it's styles to control and playback on the Motif ). In principle it's no different than using One man band or Jammer pro as my styule interface / controller and using the Motif as my module.

There are some tricks though. First and foremost, the PA80 uses patches 0-127 in all of it's banks, and every instrument corresponds to the GM standard. In other words a distorted guitar and anything related to it will always be patch # 30 on the PA80. The Motif doesn;t work that way. A distorted guitar on the Motif can be patch number 100, or 102 in a non GM bank. Even the "standard" GM patches are different. The PA80 and all of my software modules use patch #s 0-127. The Motif uses 1-128 for it's "GM", so that distortion guitar is patch #31 on the Motif.

I can go directly from the PA80 to the Motif via midi. What I need to do though is either setup the Motif so that it does not recognize any incoming bank / patch data, or set up the PA80 so that it does not send any bank / patch data. Then I have to manually enter the correct bank / patch numbers in the Motif's mixer so that the styles will play properly. IE.. Channel 10 for drums, ch 9 for bass, ch 11 for percussion, 12-16 for accomp voices . ( Note : when using a Yamaha arranger and it's styles as a controller, percussion is on ch 9 and bass is on ch 11. This is also important to remember should you ever consider converting Korg styles to Yamaha format or vice versa. ). Oh, and no need to turn the sound down on the PA80. I simply turn local control to "off". In this mode, all midi data is still sent ( except for the midi data that I choose to filter ..such as bank and patch data ). None of the data is sent to the PA80's internal sound source though, so the board remains silent. Most of modern midi kb's have this function, except for maybe the very low end ones.

This is not very convenient for live work, but it's fine for recording / composing or jamming with the styles. Usually I don't go directly from the PA80 to the Motif. I almost always use Sonar or Jammer Pro as a middleman. In this method I set the PA80 up so that it cannot send patch and bank data, set the Motif up so that it can receive it, and use the software as the go between. Advantage ? I can use the Sonar ins definiton file or jammer dev file to control the patch / bank data for each channel, which is much easier and faster than doing it in the Motif's internal mixer. Again, not good for live work though. Another thing to remember is that the effects data doesn't always translate well from one module to the next. Even when you have the right patches, sometimes a PA80 style doesn't sound as good played back on a Yamaha module. The advantage of using Sonar is that I have a studioware panel for the Motif which allow me to control effects and other criticAL parameters on the fly.

I recently discussed the issue of using Yamaha styles with OMB and the patch and bank implications on another thread. My best workaround at this point is to convert my existing styles using Style Updater so that the bank and patch data coreresponds to the Motif patches. In essence I edit a yamah style, change each accomp instrument so that it plays well on the Motif, and then save the style in a different folder that contains only styles etup for use with te Motif as a module. It's a good bit of work, but there is an added benefit. Once I get the PSR2000 again, I will be able to load up these styles into it, and then use the PSR2k and it's auto accomp to control the Motif in real time, and the patches will all be correct without me having to do any additional work. Then I can effectively use the Motif as my module even in a live setup if I choose to.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 04-09-2003).]

It doesn't sound like the original poster wants to budget for the motif.

More reasonably priced units which are still state of the art and may be more in line with his individual needs are:

Edirol SD-20 Studio Canvas MIDI Sound Module
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=...l/base_id/87119


E-MU's Proteus 1000 30th Anniversary Sound Module
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=...l/base_id/59703


Kurzweil ME-1 Micro Ensemble Synth Module
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=...l/base_id/73082

Thanks for your suggestions Blink_ers, but I do have a lot of sound modules from Roland, Korg and some other older stuff like JD990. I have JV1010, X5DR. What I need is from Yamaha.