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#180570 - 02/20/05 05:43 AM Go for it Yamaha!
YamahaAndy Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 88
Hi!

I have been away from the forum now for a while. I stopped visiting when the board went down. But now it seems to be back stronger than ever, so I also want to come back stronger than ever!

I am a keyboardist since 18 years and have grown up with synths and keyboards. I have tried a lot of keyboards and synths and currently I own 2 keyboards and 2 synths. I am also a guitarist and producer. When the Yamaha Tyros came out I was completely sold! It had the sounds I had been looking for, for at least 10 years. I had gone through Rolands, Kurzweils and Korgs, but when the Tyros arrived it just blew away the competition completely! Now after I've played it for a year I am still very fascinated about it! I wish every keyboard out there would be that charismatic! Then my life would be nothing but keyboards hehe! Oh gosh, I just can't stop liking it!

I just want to comment a few things about the trends that currently are going on in the keyboard/music production world right now. One thing that is becoming more and more popular right now is computers and keyboards all in one package! There are a few such keyabords on the market, for instance the Neko and the Dreamstation X 76. It is an interesting concept I think is not developed well enough yet to be worth the money. I would like to see a laptop built-in with touchsensitive screen before I even start thinking about these keyboards.
The reason is 2 things:
- User interface
- Sounds

The Neko has built in Windows XP Professional. So far so good. In order to taking the music production to the next step the user needs big real-time working space, that means being able to control different kinds of production tools in real-time through the user interface in a fast, easy and flexible way. I will give you an example. You are performing live when you suddenly feel it's time for suprprising the audience with a solo with some real B3 vibes! What you normally do is to press an organ button and choose your custom edited organ sound and then you play the solo. But wouldn't it be good to just press a pre-stored custom organ setup button and get a custom edited organ environment ready with leslie, tonewheels and speaker setup in the user interface as well as the possibility to have it dynamically equalized based upon the accoustic environment? Well with the neko you will be able to do this through virtual instruments, but with such a small display you won't be able to reach all at the same time. This is the first big problem.

The second problem has to do with sound quality. We all know that good audio quality comes from a good and clean signal describing the tone realisticly and precisly. The virtual instruments have improved much lately, in the sense that the tone is getting more rich and realisticly sounding through virtual instruments that are able to be played at 192 kHz/24-bit. However, when looking at virtual instruments from a total perspective, the sound quality is lacking richness in accoustics, dynamics and realism due to the fact that most of them are sampled with 44 kHz sampling rate on a 16-bit resolution. This leaves much noise in the signal, especially if the sampling platform used for the virtual instrument was bad. I currently prefer something like a Yamaha Tyros in sound quality, however, when virtual instruments generally improve I will rate the Neko much higher, but that is then more for practical reasons, it is simply easier for live performances to have all in one.

Some here have commented that the next Yamaha Tyros will be expensive when compared with the Dreamstation or the Neko, when you get a multi GHz processor in the purchase as well. My opinion is that this depends on the environment it is put in. If you put the Neko in a professional studio it becomes expensive, because you don't need an extra built-in computer available through a small GUI. This is why I believe the Yamaha currently has the right concept with their keyboard arrangers.

Yamaha built the Tyros so it would be priceworth both in a professional studio and as a standalone peace of unit by clearly separating computer processing through USB. For instance they knew that the sequencer was not the most important thing in it because you would still choose to edit through a computer's interface. By doing this they were able to equip it with high quality sounds, effects and registration features instead, and I'm glad they made that choice. Currently Yamaha has the knowledge of building an arranger with mega voices, sampler, vocal harmony, tonewheel drawbars and advanced mixing features like surround sound, they would simply combine for instance the Motif, the Tyros and the DME32 but Yamaha prefer to separate them in order to make each filling its purpose to the maximum. So when the next Yamaha Tyros arrives, I hope it is not equipped with a lot of extra stuff, I hope it has more as good sounds and styles as it has today and that it is expandable in the sound and style sections. Go for it Yamaha!

Best regards,
YamahaAndy

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 02-20-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 02-20-2005).]

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#180571 - 02/20/05 08:09 AM Re: Go for it Yamaha!
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Welcome back. Good analysis!
What was your name before? Your writing style looks familiar.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#180572 - 02/20/05 11:21 AM Re: Go for it Yamaha!
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
YamahaAndy,

We'll based on your facinating dissertation of the state of the keyboard industry, I for one, am very happy you came back to SZ!!!!

Excellent analysis!

I wonder if Korg has the right idea with the Oasys. Essentially an Open Synth platform utilizing both hardware driven by Software Algorithms. The future looks great!!
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#180573 - 02/20/05 11:25 AM Re: Go for it Yamaha!
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
YamahaAndy,

We'll based on your facinating dissertation of the state of the keyboard industry, I for one, am very happy you came back to SZ!!!!

Excellent analysis!

I wonder if Korg has the right idea with the Oasys. Essentially an Open Synth platform utilizing both hardware driven by Software Algorithms. The future looks great!!
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#180574 - 02/20/05 10:37 PM Re: Go for it Yamaha!
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
kbrkr, we heard you the first time!
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#180575 - 02/21/05 01:11 PM Re: Go for it Yamaha!
YamahaAndy Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 88
kbrkr, DonM:

Thank you for your nice invite and good words about my analysis... I have to say it like the demo guy at Roland when presenting the Roland G-70: "Wonderful, thank you, you liked it, thank you so much, we appreciate it!"

In the past I was writing on the signature AndyToneCrazy, but I came to realise that it's really Yamaha I'm crazy about because they know what I like, so I took the chance and upgraded my signature a little now when I entered here again.

It's nice to have friends here! I'm currently exploring the Korg Oasys and don't know so much about it yet... Are you familiar with it? Maybe you are familiar with the Yamaha Tyros also? What do you think about it?

Right now I'm more passionated about music than ever before! I'm on the edge of taking a big step towards something pretty undiscovered, I'm planning on turning my garage into a center of creativity. It happened this Saturday when I was listening to a Motown concert in one of the local clubs. I knew a lot of guys in the band and the drummer, a talented musician that so far has had a hard time getting anywhere, I saw the light in his eyes, that boy was really living a poor but very full life! At the end of the concert he came through, I believe God was very present through him that night, he had been doing a Gospel concert earlier that evening and I think he has found his path now. Yeah, that's what it's all about I thought for myself! He gave me new perspectives and inspiration, because I all of a sudden realised I want to walk that same path instead of wasting time... So I am currently searching for a cheap dealer and then I will start spending in a home studio! Currently I'm focusing on a soundcard for my computer, and it seems like The RME Fireface 800 is about to get bought..! I just have to read a little more before I decide... Do you know any cheap dealers online or have any good audio interface to recommend? Take care!

Best regards,
YamahaAndy

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 02-21-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 02-21-2005).]

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#180576 - 02/21/05 06:35 PM Re: Go for it Yamaha!
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Andy, I think the RME Fireface 800 is a very good choice myself. It has received many good positive reviews online. It records and plays back at 24 bit 192kHz plus it has many other advanced features.

The cheapest I've been able to find it for is $1,449 at zzounds.com or musiciansfriend.com. Also, 8thstreet.com has it for the same price also. You might be able to find it cheaper by going a Google search.

Best regards,
Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#180577 - 02/21/05 10:40 PM Re: Go for it Yamaha!
YamahaAndy Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 88
Thanks for your advice keybplayer.

There are 3 things I like very much about the RME Fireface 800:

- Good driver support
- Good D/A and D/A converters
- FireWire

Additionally I think this is very good:

"Fireface 800 uses RME's own FireWire techology, heavily optimized for audio purposes (RME is the only manufacturer not using a third party FW technology!). Lowest overhead, special hardware adaptations and a new low latency buffer concept enable a performance and compatibility which has been thought of as impossible until now. This includes latency change on the fly, latencies down to one millisecond, and immediate reaction on changes of the sample rate. Further enhancements and optimizations are easily added by performing a Flash Update. The Fireface 800 has a second port for hub functionality, bi-lingual mode for full FireWire 400 compatibility, and an additional FireWire 400 port. Several Fireface 800 can be used in parallel and at the same time on one FireWire port."

I also read that you don't need to lower the recording quality even though many inputs are used simoultaneously, so you really get the power! Because it's FireWire you should be able to add several Firefaces and get as many inputs and outputs as you like. One unit has 10 inputs and 10 outputs. It should also be sweet together with a laptop live.
The price tag is also pretty good. I can get it for 1330€ at thomann.de, but I have a local dealer that is even cheaper, maybe something like 1200€... But the zzounds.com's offer at $1,449.95 is even cheaper, so I just have to check their policy on international orders to Europe (shipping, tax rates etc) I have yet an additional source where I can get it for 1199 €, so I usually have them fighting for my purchase, then I usually get it very cheap... At http://www.bayviewproaudio.com I get it for $ 1,379.00 but the shipping might get expensive, I just have to find a few more cheap sources...!

Best regards,
YamahaAndy

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 02-21-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 02-21-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 02-21-2005).]

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