As I became a member in 1999, this forum was one of the best I know. (perhaps THE best)
Great discussions/sharing knowledge, nice people that behaved as grownups.

Nowadays this forum contains almost nothing but Tyros2 & G70 comparisions, slamming and useless topics of childish people telling "I am the King" or everlasting posts about "G1000 is the best!"

To all the nice people : Hope to meet you elsewhere.....

well, kla4, don t be upset! that happeness probably because korg (for instance) didn t release a new kwyboard in such a long time. sd5 is not yet available, and so on.
the past few days does not make the forum less important or usefull.
i can tell, honestly, that i've learned alot, even while some useless debates take place, because more you read about something, even if trash, you can discover some important aspects.
anyway, i am sure alot of folks here are curious and willing to learn from (almost) every post.
stay around!...

Sometimes there is more to learnt about keyboards from the most heated debates here than the wisest of experts.

I agree wholeheartedly....very well said.

Ian

kla4,

I totally agree with you. A few members of this board have monopolized the content and are what I call "Mixers" if you have ever seen Clockwork Orange. They like to stir things up because they have nothing better to do. Some folks just like to post nonsense just to thump up their # of posts.

About the only thing I've been learning on this board lately is how to snipe at other people and the artful method of putting down someone elses opinions without directly attacking them.

It's really a shame, I have already cut down on my visits here. There are some really great people on this board and there is so much more to learn that it almost makes it worthwhile, but for the most part, I'm almost done.

------------------
Al Giordano www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 07-24-2006).]

everyone is a individual, with own manner of speaking/writing, atitude, character, etc. take each one as he/she is!
is good to be patience, to learn what you can and let the stubborn ones alone!

no matter how it looks right now, such a forum is a invaluable source of information!

People on this board are very passionate about their keyboards. when we compare brand x with brand y, then naturally arguments occur....some are lukewarm...others will be furious...we have no control over that.... its impossible to compare keyboards and not get emotionally involved at times...we're human...but our anger should never be directed at any person on this board...neither should we insult each other...rather direct that anger at the product itself... and agree to disagree. Most of us have never even met each other...if we met each other in real life it would be easier to debate and not fight. Here its different...we're just names on a computer... Think about it

This board remains the BEST arranger keyboard forum in the world.

When I first arrived at this forum there was a free exchange of valuable information that benefitted everyone. Granted, there was an occasional tyrate from one or two members, but those rantings were frequently limited to a few posts and things returned to normal.

Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Every post seems to be nothing more than a daily pissing contest, and valuable information that would be beneficial to the masses is currently a rare commodity.

Over the years I have learned a lot from a great number of forum members, and hopefully, they have benefitted from some of the information I have been able to pass on as well. I must, however, agree with Ian and KLA4. For now, I have removed the Synthzone from my browser. If anyone needs assistance you'll find me at the PSR Tutorial or SVPWorld.

Good Luck,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

I agree, the air is stale in here. But there are a lot of keyboard related forums out there and one of them usually has some topics or news worth discussing. I keep a list of about a dozen or so forums that I participate in and just scan through them all a couple times a week looking for interesting topics and info. All forums have their individual shortcomings so rotating is the only way to go.

Unfortunately, I find myself agreeing with most of the negative sentiments expressed in this thread; however, I'm obviously still here . I think the sort of behaviour we're seeing is indeed cyclical, and I'm willing to try riding it out with the hope that things will improve.

By the way, I've noticed the same sort of problem lately on other forums that I'm a member of, some of which are not musically oriented. Perhaps it's the rising global temperatures getting some of us hot under the collar (note, no smiley!).

--Barry

If you look at the trend over the years, it gets like this every so often. The latest NAMM show didn't yield too much in the keyboard department, so as usual when that happens the bickering between models starts up again. Right now it's the G-70 and T2, and the E-80/60/50 will be soon added to that as well.

As it has in the past, the bickering will fade out, and we'll get back to normal.

Squeak

I concur. Having to keep up the cat & mouse game of 'artful dodging' from the constant barrage of bullets thrown has become exasperating. In the beginnng , I tried responding to the taunts with reasoned responses. When this failed, I attempted ignoring them, but after the taunts continued unabated, I finally took the if you can't beat them, join them approach. Regretfully, this has reduced the level of sz discussion to merely amateurish taunts, jokes & cartoons. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good joke and laugh as much as the next guy, but some jokes hit to close to the heart, especially if the butt of the joke is the keyboard (G70, Tyros2, PA1Xpro, etc) you just dropped half of your paycheck on. This forum is unique because it covers arranger keyboards in general, and not brand specific. Though one of the obvious topics to expectedly come up here is 'which brand/model keyboard is best', I was hoping the emphasis would be rather, what can we share with each other to make whatever arranger keyboard we currently own, the best we can. I doubt any of us has explored the full potential of the arr keyboard we currently own, or developed the full musical potential we have with our arranger kb playing skills. I'm hoping we can all come together finally, and support one another in what I would expect to be a 'commonly shared' interest by all here. Am I wrong?

I spoke with our moderator Nigel Spence on the phone yesterday and he's assured me that he shares these concerns as well, and has deleted and/or blocked (from furthers posting) the most offensive posting threads.

Scott

I totally agree with you Scott. I sent an e-mail to Nigel and he's a great bloke who does one hell of a good job on here. I hope things get back to normal soon.

Yes, Nigel does a very good job with this forum and the site in general (thanks, Nigel). I would like to see one change in the moderation, however; off-topic threads that may be offensive to some or all of us should either be deleted (not just locked), or at least moved to The Bar. I consider The Bar to have an implied "Enter at your own risk" sign.

--Barry

Do these people get paid for posting? The forum is full of meaningless chats. Now I need to say these people should use IRC or ICQ.

George

My 2 cents worth.

I�ve been on a lot of music forums over the years and this one is much better than most are as far as manners go. One of the theatre organ lists that I had belonged to makes this one look like a group of high level diplomats. It took me a while to understand that because some one was giving me a barb and their absolute need to be right didn�t necessarily mean I had to respond. I could give a rat�s butt who gets the last word. Guys just don�t take the bait.

Did anyone ever notice the ladies seem to avoid these peeing contest LOL. It�s a guy thing (I�m guilty too) about mine is bigger and better then yours or I know more then you do Etc. My feelings are this is a terrific forum and there is so much valuable information. We are free to take what we need and ignore the rest.

Last but not least there are a lot of passionate people here and there are going to be the occasional ruffled feathers

Jerry


[This message has been edited by Mainer (edited 07-24-2006).]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kla4:

Nowadays this forum contains almost nothing but Tyros2 & G70 comparisions, slamming and useless topics of childish people telling "I am the King" or everlasting posts about "G1000 is the best!"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Amen!!!

Is there really a need for comparisons? Why can't we just be happy if someone prefers an other brand or model? If you wish to compare, then do it in a constructive manner. Let us hear what you've got instead of just emtpy talk that leads to nowhere but more endless rows. Remember, those that buy keep the keyboard economy going and we all profit from that, one way or another.

It's been posted so often that each keyboard has its weak and strong points and most members say they agree. So if they agree, then why do we have these silly rows going on? Or is it just empty talk? I just know that no matter what keyboard one decides to buy, I'd be happy for him/her.

Personally I love Wersi but that doesn't mean that I look down on other brands. Give me a T2 or a G70 and I'd be happy just the same.

And...if someone feels insulted...take it to the moderator or let it go for by throwing insults back he/she is just as guilty. At least you can say that you kept your cool and that makes others respect you more.

Remember, it's the musician that makes a keyboard sound great. Your audience is not going to care whether you play Yamaha, Korg, Roland or whatever. All they want is to be entertained.

I still wonder why there is not a KORG section, and yet there is still a section on TECHNICS, who as we know has been out of this business for years.

- Frost

Frostbyte if you send an e-mail to Nigel maybe he would add it and let someone who owns a Korg arranger start postings off in there. Korg shouldn't be left in the dark

Guys... and Gals:

Synthzone is still the best BB on the net, especially for keyboard people and frustrated songwriters. Sure, every now and then somebody shows their posterior or says something completely stupid or off-color. It's always gonna be that way with members of the human race.

On the other side of the coin, there are those who would give you the shirt off their backs to encourage or assist.

These times are just part of the Cicadian Rhythms we encounter in life's diverse journey. Be of good cheer, this too shall pass.

All my best,

Dave Rice http://cdbaby.com/cd/daverice

Originally posted by Scottyee:

especially if the butt of the joke is the keyboard (G70, Tyros2, PA1Xpro, etc) you just dropped half of your paycheck on.

Only 1/2 your paycheck?? Wow, wish I had your money

zuki

For my money, the best informative Keyboard forums are the SynthZone, PSR Tutorial and SVPWorld. Although it get a little far out here some time with the mine is better than your routine, it is still the best informative site out here today thanks to it's membership, so let's keep it going and not bail out and abandon the forum, if you don't like the post, move on and don't read it, just pick and choose what you want to read and enjoy....
TR

As Craig said, if you want a Korg Arranger forum I will set one up for you. It just hadn't been requested up to now. Maybe it's time.

( I just went and added it right now )



[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 07-24-2006).]

I think I stated the way I feel in my 'Why I defend the Roland G70' post. I have no axe to grind with anyone else's arranger choice - needs and tastes vary hugely, along with ability - but for the reasons stated, I'd rather no-one had an axe to grind with mine........

Reasoned argument is fine, but personal attacks and 'BrandX sucks' comment have no place here, and only serve to discourage participation........

The old adage;

You must take the bitter with the better.

Some annoying things are being said on this post � but, there are also some great guys saying some things I find amusing and at times important.

IMHO, John C.

Gary, I am sorry to hear this from you. I truly don't want to lose your musical expertise and sound advice from this forum.

But I think you are exaggerating a little. When I look at "every post" they don't fall into the category you mention.

kla4 and Gary I understand there have been some antagonistic threads recently. I walk a fine line between hard nosed censorship and absolute liberal freedom. Both are bad in my eyes so I try to find a mid ground that will please the majority of users ( as well as being palatable to me ). I pretty much let all of you establish guidelines for what is acceptable and what isn't. Disagreement IS allowed. How you guys personally handle disagreement is completely up to you. It's the same here the same as it is face to face. The only difference is that contact is virtual not physical. I think people would be a lot more restrained if they were talking face to face and the threat of physical confrontation was more real. I don't even wait for people to get to that stage before I delete their postings or close a thread. I can tell very easily that a thread has become futile and has begun to spiral out of control. But it would be wrong for me to prematurely jump in and stop or remove a thread. Many people would have something to say about that.

I run the forums here as fairly as I can. I really don't think you will find much better elsewhere. It is human nature in an online world and I don't think that will change wherever you go. Sure you can probably find a more heavily censored forum but I don't know if that is really where you'd be happy.

I hope you continue to visit here even if you aren't as comfortable posting at present.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 07-24-2006).]

and after all...
was something soooo ofending to someone or were the expression used soooo very rude or shameless?
come on friends, nothing was sooo bad that ask for somebody to leave the forum.
anyway, for me at this time, synthzone forum is a every day visit and i am happy i can read user's oppinions in every aspect.
even if sometimes we feel somebody is not fair to our beloved instrument, or somebody else is praising a keyboard we detest, or a guy has a certain way to do things... that is not such a big deal. actually, even with some stupid childish atitude of some users, we still can learn and participate togheter.
best to you all!

I concur with Scott... very well said!

Nigel ... well put ... and I , and MANY others around here, think you do a FANTASTIC job ...
... this place is like family, and like most families discussions sometimes get out of hand but then we kiss and make up and all is fine again ... like adimatis, I am a daily visitor unless I am out of town, ... and I will continue to be here...
t.
PS... I've sent Gary an e-mail ...


[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 07-25-2006).]

I blame Yamaha. Synthzone used to be the best place to learn about new arranger keyboards and decide what brand to buy. But now almost everyone buys Yamaha, and if you have a Yamaha there are better-targeted sites for you. There have always been heated debates at Synthzone; for the most part, they draw interest and do not drive people away. But now you learn about new keyboards on Harmony Central then go the manufacturers' sites to download information on products as they are introduced. Members that start debates about the worthiness of nonYamaha arrangers are not the problem--they are all that is left. Times change, competitors abound, and Synthzone just isn't as important as it was. So leave if you must, but I think the criticisms are misguided.

One more in concurrance.

I have gained lots of valuable info from this forum and try to contribute in a thoughtful and meaningful way.

However, I too am tired of T2 vs G70 battles.

I find it frustrating that some of the valuable info is now buried in a hugh chains. Conversations go off on tangents. New topics are started within the same chain so unless you read the whole thing you don't get the nugget.

I guess that is part of the free-wheeling nature of the internet today. Nigel is doing his part of providing an infrastructure for us to communicate with and police those who are way out of line without unreasonable censorship.

It will take the members of this forum to establish standards of how to organize and present information and self-police those rules.

Guys... and Gals:

Once more into the breech! Let's all try to stop getting hung up on whose keyboard is best. Almost all of you are using better equipment than me. That does not mean that my old yammie PSR2000 is obsolete. I still respect Korg and Roland and all the others.

Thank goodness they still make Fords and Chevrolets, etc. It's all about choice. What works great for one may not satisfy the other. That does not mean a particular keyboard does not have a value to somebody.

And yes, Nigel runs a great board. We should all be extremely grateful for his patience, assistance and often, his restraint. For me, Nigel, "you-da-man!" Thanks!

Dave Rice

I too have been very disapointed in what's going on here. Not only the bashing of the members choice of thier particular keyboard, but some of the absolute childish questions that are posted.I don't post much on the Forum, but from time to time will jump in if i can help someone or be helped by someone.That aspect has to me been put on the back burner. I, like Gary don't like the direction this great forum has been taking latley,so like Gary, i will visit once in awhile and see if things can change for the betterment of all of us. Luck to all, Bob L.

Hi,
at times I think it's rather sad that only the latest , & frequently only top of the line keyboards are discussed.
Makes me wonder how members who can't afford to buy the latest & greatest keyboard on the market must feel.

You don't see too many comments or questions on earlier or cheaper model keyboards,
either nobody owns them,
or they've learnt everything about them & don't have any questions,
or else they're too embarressed to admit they own less than the latest, greatest keyboard on the market. ( that would truly be sad).
Nigel runs a wonderful forum, and he leaves it up to us, as to what we want to discuss.

best wishes
Rikki

This is the best forum ever! I have fun here everyday! Cant wait to see the new comments everyday!

Lots of great info and humor

Regards,

Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts

Not I, says I. It's been mentioned in a few of my posts lately that I still have my 7-year-old Korg i30 and still derive the greatest pleasure from it. I don't really feel the need to get the latest and greatest, whatever that may be. Still lovin' it. Cheers!

All I can say is that the best pro working musicians I know rarely own the latest & greatest keyboard models either. It's their musicianship, creative artistry, and entertainer skills that audiences come to hear & appreciate , not the keyboard model they play. We must never forget this. - Scott

Usually people like to discuss only the top products they own making (sometimes undeliberately) all other people feel inferior.

It is not the case here on the SZ. One can achieve a good result with a low-level keyboard because low-level keyboards ($300-$800) are good enough.

I considered keyboards for less than $300 as toys until Coaster Tim gave a very positive review on his $199 keyboard.

So... people with less expensive keyboards do not feel inferior. The trend is that the features present on the mid and high end keyboards are appearing on the low level k.

Regards,
George

I agree with you kla4. I also want to know more about other things on this SZ. But sometimes is hard to find good replay about keyboards and styles.
I red a lot of articles here before I involve in discussion. I agree with you that in years 1999 was more things about evolution of keyboards�.

Keyboards are all good, but we must know to play and know modern technology.

Please, don�t compete in way that who is having better keyboard or sound. We need more experience in new styles, sounds and other good things that must be part of us as musicians.

Here is not only T2 and G70 but other who people don�t know well and having no time to test them.

This forum must be open for new fresh ideas and new keyboards, sounds and styles.


Best regards.

Scott, stop reading my mind .

chas

It seems like we are going full circle.
That is what Fran was telling us when he would make references to his G1000 and how he can make it stand up against the newer arrangers. But some persons took offence to him doing so.

Different issues here.

My beef with Fran was never about his G1000, but his claim that commercial SMF (aka: Tune1000, etc) backing tracks: + singing (karaoke style) & perhaps playing the keyboard live (but with the sound of his live kb play often routed to his headphones only, with the audience hearing only the keyboard part supplied by the SMF instead) preferable to live 'arranger keyboard mode' performance.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 07-29-2006).]

Hi Scott



Well said Scott.
One of our best local musicians played for almost 10 years the Psr-730 until I finally talked him into byuing the Psr-3000 (of course from our friend George Kay ).
He playes left hand bass and right hand chording/soloing and sings. And of course uses the drum patterns.
For larger gigs he uses a drummer and a guitar player, but still does left hand bass and right hand chording.
The audience never complaint that the sounds were outdated or that he sounded "boring".
He puts on a great show with a huge variety of genres to please almost everyone and always gets the crowd going.
He has a huge following that folows him from Club to Club.

He does this as a full time job supporting his wife and kid since 30+ years and never worked a day in his life for somebody else.

Just one example.

Thanks again Scott

Eric



[This message has been edited by Eric, B (edited 07-29-2006).]

Yup. That's it, in a nutshell.

I remember years and years ago the same syndrome with some of the guys, good and bad, I've played with in bands. They'd shell out some serious cash on a new guitar or drum kit and, apart from whatever inspiration the new gear might generate, they were still the same player the following night.

To paraphrase: 'Tain't what you play, it's the way that you play it.


[This message has been edited by renig (edited 07-29-2006).]

Korg can even stop making keyboards right now, because their TRITONs are so popular, even non-keybord players know about it, in 10 years people will probably still will be buying TRITONs.

This is the same "mine is better than yours" "I'm better than you" argument.
what about the guy that leaves the keyboard playing while he walks around with a mic then wonders why the audience doesn't respect his "playing", they now know that you don't even need to touch the keyboard and it sounds good without you.