http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=967
http://trio.harmony-central.com/ramgen/WNAMM03/OpenLabs-eKo.rm

Its a good day for me today !!


Wake up Yamaha !!!

Peace,

MusiKman

does it come with styles?

There are several extensive posts here on the OpenLabs eKo keyboard. Scroll through the threads to see more.

Mmm... a windows controlled pc in a keyboard, a spell for disaster I would think! Even so, it looks very impressive though starting at $2000 I guess you would spend quite a bit to get it up to full spec. It doesnt appear to be an arranger keyboard, though I suppose with its "open architecture" it could be... no ideas on sounds, or is it just a sample playback system? For me the immediatecy of a tyros or psr, being able to turn on and play would probably rule over this.. how long does it take to boot up? and I guess its quite a lump!

Simon



------------------
________________________
Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
________________________

George kay,

Are you planning to get this in your store?

Simon,
Re: Your question on turn on and play. Their web site says, "Instant On: Unlike traditional computers that may take minutes to start up, eKo utilizes a unique process that allows the keyboard to start up in seconds."
Might need a second sound card to enable it to be an arranger keyboard. This customized keyboard would be a real synthesizer, arranger keyboard. Shows a lot of promise.
Starkeeper

I understand they are using hibernate mode for windows to get that instant start.. And for all those that own laptops, you know how well that works. I can't get my computer from going to blue screen of death once and a while, how do they?

Honestly I think it shows promise, but they aren't the first ones to tackle this, Dr. Moog tried this with Vancouvering, which failed.

with everything getting smaller and faster and cheaper... it makes sense ... to have mini-computer hooked up to keyboard ... tons of styles, and with software... propellerhead's Reason, Acid, sonor, ect... all the soft synth and arranger guys should be happy!
Even if they keep all the regular arranger hardware in ... putting a cpu and mini screen should be possible ... considering my arranger has a computer hard drive in it already.... and LCD display ...
We could finally have same tech level for computer and arranger...
Arrangers seem to be 2 or 3 steps behind on Tech level compared to computers...
(small Rom and Ram ...processing speed ...ect!)

Isn't the top-end Wersi keyboard based on Win98?

Whilst I agree that in general the PC is not that reliable, the usual reason is down to driver and software incompatabilities; for example graphics card manufacturers test their stuff on their own "reference platform" and so do the sound card makers but the two are probably not the same!)(so maybe we should all buy Creative Labs Sound and Graphics cards only?!?!?). In writing drivers for this synth the situation is much more controlled; all the hardware is known and not likely to change. Therefore it is feasible that they have found and fixed the gotcha's. This system should be more reliable than a standard PC.

You can make an analogy with Mac's. The Mac is usually more reliable that the PC because Apple control the hardware much more tightly and so there are less variables to worry about.

And folks, lets not use this post to fire up a "PC" versus "Mac" argument! They are different and thus have strengths and weaknessess that therefore appeal to differnt people and applications!

It's a good quality video indeed, but we did not hear more than 10 (poor) notes from the synth.

In fact it is 'just' a masterkeyboard connected with MIDI to a standard PC configuration and some other MIDI-controller devices ..... or am I wrong ?

It is not an arranger keyboard.
What software is included ?

Some personal reasons for NOT wanting such a machine on stage :
a. Huge dimensions
b. Heavy
c. Mouse-touchpad .... I hate them !
d. Windows-interface
e. QUERTY keyboard
f. Soft-synths are not free of charges !
g. What is the use of having an UPS while the PA-system is 'dead' because of power-loss ?

I consider the EKO to be a PC and almost every PC is able to handle 24 bits/96kHz with the correct soundcard inserted.

I'm not too impressed, like others.

Roel


[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 02-06-2003).]

Roel,
I am only mildly amused by the Eko too. I suppose I would have to see one in action. I thought the video really didn't show much at all. I kept waiting for the guy to really start demoing some sounds, arps, patches whatevers.

I'm with you....a good midi controller for $200.00 and a laptop would be about the same to me.

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-06-2003).]

Maybe I'm the only one who saw what OpenLabs was doing at NAMM: they weren't selling a finished keyboard, they were displaying a working prototype specifically to get interest from third-party vendors to see if they could snag some deals for incorporating softsynths and control panels designed for specific applications into their units when they finally ship. Word is they got plenty of interest. The apps that were displayed on the eKo were the ones OpenLabs bought out of pocket to demo the hardware, not to show off anyone else's sounds or apps.

Current specs on the prototype eKo was a 3Ghz processor, half a terrabyte HD (500MB) and a gig of RAM. Your laptop doesn't have that nor can it be upgraded to it... in fact, no keyboard currently made has that kind of processing and storage power. Even if you buy a controller and computer as suggested, you are still stuck with the kinds of controls that the keyboard manufacturer designated in places where they think you should have them. The control surface types and locations of the eKo are determined by the keyboard owner for the first time. Then you install the apps and sample libraries you want. The eKo would have far more hardware and software options available on it's first day of sales than all other keyboards combined, so the constant "why doesn't Yamaha add digital I/O's to their arrangers" or "why doesn't Roland include SCSI on their keyboards" debates won't apply to the eKo. Once you design the keyboard to fit your needs and work preferences and install the apps and components, it's ready for use on stage or in other studios with little setup time needed. Your controls will always be what you need and where you need them.

It's the potential of the eKo, not the stuff that was previewed, that is what has keyboardists talking about it. I'm not interested in buying an eKo today either because I don't need it yet and it isn't finished, but next year or the year after when it's refined I'll be very interested. I'll also bet that since the eKo is basically a keyboard with off-the-shelf computer components/OS that at NAMM 2004 we'll see eKo clones that weigh and cost less. The exploding softsynth market makes keyboards like the eKo inevitable.

Damn... before anyone jumps on my back about it - yes, I meant to say 500GB, not MB when refering to the half-terrabyte HD above.

Pro,
I see your point but I think we were discussing the video and what it is now rather than what it MAY be.

I could possibly see myself with one too...once some "stuff" is in place and I can really see it's potential rather than speculate it.

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-06-2003).]

MusiKman,
Remember you started this thread and put the URL in it ! What is 'cool' in it ?
It only showed the eKo playing without a power chord connected and an 'illegal operation' action on the screen IMHO.

Pro,
I wished eKo showed some features/sounds. The specs of the built-in PC, which are almost 'standard' nowadays, tell me nothing.
Native Instruments B4 Tonewheel (also a soft-synth) runs perfect on a P-III, 350 MHz with only 128 Mb of memory and a good soundcard.
Important things are :
Latency (not 'almost zero' but msecs), Signal to noise ratio, what kind of inputs/outputs (digital, optical, analog, MIDI I/O, Mic-inputs, phantom Y/N, balanced Y/N......)
Can hardware components be replaced/upgraded with standard devices ? (e.g. soundcarda)

Just compare the eKo with Wersi organs/keyboards that re-introduced this idea a few years ago.
The latest Wersi-machines run WIN98 with only 768 Mb of RAM and a 40 Gb HDD and have a 'normal' user interface like real drawbars. The processor probably is a P-III ?

What I would like :
An eKo configuration in the Wersi housing .... for the eKo prices.

Roel

[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 02-07-2003).]

More news or demo's ?

Roel

The OpenLabs website has been updated a little: http://www.openlabs.com/

Look for more news at or after Music Messe in Germany mid-March.

Also, check out Steinberg's V-Stack program for using VST instruments without a sequencer. Could be what gets the eKo rolling:
http://www.stenberg.net/

Oh sure...but can it make coffee?

...'bout as well as any other keyboard...

EkO NEWS! The eKo keyboards have gone on sale on the Open Labs website. They are taking preliminary orders for 61 and 75 notes versions ranging from $1995 to over $6000 plus options and accessories. The official launch of the eKo is March 5. Here's the press release:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2003/eKo-Pre-Order.html

Roland, Korg, Yamaha, Ketron, Technics.
WAKEY, WAKEY.
If you don't do it, someone else will.
Good old American know how and ingenuity. Way to go Eko.
Starkeeper

It seems everyone is thinking it is a arranger-keyboard ? ........... please wake up guys !!!

It's a 'virtual synthesizer' built with standard hardware and software
(PC, MAudio soundcard, Steinberg synth/sequencer etc.)

I would NEVER pre-order a machine like this, well perhaps because I'm a dutchie ?

Roel

I'm not ordering one just yet either, but there is no reason why the eKo could not be an arranger keyboard with the right software. It has the potential to be nearly any kind of keyboard you want. I'm looking down the road at what might take the place of my 9000 Pro in the future, and considering the experiences I and others have had with (non)support from Yamaha with the 9kPro and this "will there or won't there be a Tyros Pro?" debate, in addition to the faltering with new arrangers from most of the other manufacturers, I'm ready to go in a new direction altogether. I'm already checking out softsynths and soft-arranger programs that could work with the eKo. Nothing wrong with keeping an open eye and mind at least.

To add my $.02 into this converstion:

This may well work as an arranger, if eKo (or an adventurous user) is able to intergrate the arranger software with the sound engine - from the work of Frank Rosenthal, this looks like a doable task. However, what is also important is the ergonomics of the setup: for a live performance it is not enough to be able to navigate to the desired style using a touch screen or a pointing device - you have to have BUTTONS to make your selections. Providing a button surface and software which integrates it into the navigation scheme which may include a variety of audio, sequencing, and style-playing software components is a non-trivial exercise, and I don't know if it has ever been addressed in the PC environment (other than by Wersi).

I am not saying this is impossible, but considering what a small market segment we the arranger keyboard users make up, our needs will likely be put on the back burner.

Regards

I think open architecture synths is a good trend irregardless of whether the eKo is a commercial success or not. Running a rock solid OS with known hardware such as the eKo is much easier than the desktop PC market where all sorts of unknown hardware and device drivers can be installed increasing the odds of problems arising. Whether Microsoft Windows is up to the task of running a realtime performance keyboard is something that time will tell. I don't personally have huge confidence in Microsoft software and OS even though I use it on a daily basis at work and home. This is probably the reason I have reserved feelings. I have seen all variations of Windows crash running nothing but Microsoft apps including Win 2000. But the hardware is now up to the job if the OS can support it. It is time we get to build up our own custom keyboard setups using software modules.

"To add my $.02 into this converstion:

This may well work as an arranger, if eKo (or an adventurous user) is able to intergrate the arranger software with the sound engine - from the work of Frank Rosenthal, this looks like a doable task. However, what is also important is the ergonomics of the setup: for a live performance it is not enough to be able to navigate to the desired style using a touch screen or a pointing device - you have to have BUTTONS to make your selections. Providing a button surface and software which integrates it into the navigation scheme which may include a variety of audio, sequencing, and style-playing software components is a non-trivial exercise, and I don't know if it has ever been addressed in the PC environment (other than by Wersi)."

I know everyone means well be you REALLY have to look closer at the eKo concept: the keyboard allows you to pick and choose the kind of button/slider/control interface(s) that you prefer. It's fully customizable. There are interchangeable control "modules" or drop-in boxes that give you not only the controls you prefer but where you prefer them. So the ergonomic issue is fully addressed. The right button-interface should be programmable to emulate the kind of intro/verse/chorus/ending functions we all use with multiple variations of each... but that needs to go hand-in-hand with the right arranger software that exists only in theory at the moment.

It's my own personal theory that someone could or should produce a small powered speaker module option to give the eKo the kind of built-in amplification that many arranger users like for those who don't need four control surface modules. That's the kind of innovation that Open Labs is trying to get third-party vendors to offer I believe.

What do you guys think of this program, would it work?
http://lotal.narod.ru/
http://www.live-styler.de/download.html

Peace,
MusiKman

Guys, I sent an email to Open Labs Tech support... Here is a copy of it....


Dear tech Support,
First of all, I would like to express my gratitude for embarking in this new awsome avenue of music production Workstation...

Im a musician that is not so good at programming the keyboard etc. Thats why I would like to know if there is an Arranger Module for the Eko system.
There are so many musicians like me who are asking this same question and would love to hear from your company as to what are your plans if possible as to having an arranger module if one is not available.

Here is a link of where we usually meet to discuss about all the new keyboards etc..
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/005757.html

We had a discussion about your system not having an Arranger option at your website.

Many of us musicians have dreamed of this kind of system. Built in studio, effects, etc.. But we also love the Arranger option. Why? because it helps us make music fast and professionally instead of having to program the drums and all other backing tracks manually..

I personally right now, have the Korg I30 interactive Workstation. Its an Arranger Workstation, but thats it. It doesnt allow me to upgrade it at all.

Here is a link about this Workstation:
http://www.ralfschiller.de/sta/korgi30.htm

and here is the link to the Discussion forum as well..
http://disc.server.com/Indices/24426.html

As you can see, there are so many individuals like myself that are so interested in this keyboard, but cant decide because it doesnt seem to have an Arranger Module.

Please let me know if this is a possibility...I would love to hear from you guys..I believe that if you guys come up with an awsome programmable with different styles, arranger workstation, it will really crank up your sales.
Not only will you leave Korg, Yamaha, and Roland behind, you will take away many of their loyal customers. I for one, have been a Korg loyal customer. I have the Korg Trinity V3 fully loaded. Spent over 5,000 dollars on it, then I bought the Korg I30 and spent over 3000 dollars with it. and many other Korg Products.
I think if you guys can cater to the Arranger community, you guys will reap the rewards. Why, because all this companies like yamaha, Korg and Roland have forgotten about us. This is the chance for your company to take hold of that market share. Believe me guys, if you do, You guys will really rule, because many guys will become loyal customers and the word will spread so quickly on the net.
If possible im at work today until 5 pm Pacific time. I cant dial out long distance from work but if one of your reps can call me, I would love to hear from you guys...


May God continue to prosper and bless your awsome company...


best,

MusiKman

Open Labs is not a software company - they make hardware only. There is no basis for "an arranger module" without arranger software... however you can have an "eKo arranger" today by taking an existing Windows arranger program like Jammer Live or One Man Band and program an existing eKo module to act as an arranger ie: start, verse, chorus, ending. The more important questin is: what VST(s) or softsynth will you assign the arranger to play?

Open Labs also has it's hand full developing their product to work with the vast and growing number of VSTs on the market without going after the arranger market just yet, which is a subset of the larger synth market.

Members of the development team of Open Labs participate in the Harmony Central Keys/Synths/Samplers forum. I've already suggested functions and possibilities that would apply to the arranger user, such as internal speaker modules.

Meanwhile, I am working on my own "mini-eKo", which is basically a laptop with an Echo Indigo low-latency audio card and an Oxygen 8 controller. I've ordered Steinberg's V-Stack program which allows you to play VST's without a sequencer program and is the same program that ships with the eKo. I intend test some of the arranger possibilites, such as running the Yamaha S-XYG50 softsynth from One Man Band. This should be an approximation of how the eKo would work as an arranger.

Man that is awsome... Yes please do fill is in more on how it goes. I would be very interested....

Also can you please give us the link to that forum you mentioned...


Peace,
MusiKman

Go to "Discussion Groups" here:
http://www.harmony-central.com/

You'll have to create a username to participate. Go to the Keys/Synths/Samplers forum. The Open Labs rep uses the name "eko1512" so you can search the forum and see some of the conversations.

Thanks for the link..
I really look foward to having a Synth Module... on the eko.....

thanks


musiKman

Just curious...... someone here that plays this synth ?
I expected some detailed reviews, since these keyboards were presented/released.

Roel

Its ugly. yuck.

Rolandfan,
This Fatar is much nicer. Copied from the "who needs keyboards anymore" post. http://www.studiologic.net/cms61.htm
It's not a Roland though.
Starkeeper

That board looks cool Starkeeper