Well as many of you know on here I was unfortunate to buy the Mediastation last September. I have today decided to have a peep at what the one and only Domenico is up to these days and to see if the Mediastation has been improved, which was what it desperately needed. I can safely say that owning one for over a month I can state if an improvement has been made or not, plus I'm off work ill so it gives me something to do lol.


Take a look at http://www.lionstracs.com/site/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=37&catid=37&Ite mid=59
These show some of the latest demos. If the link doesn't work go to the main page and follow the links on there.

The arranger 1 demo still shows the same bloke freaking out with various sounds, it made me laugh when he said piano and took well over 10 seconds to change from an organ sound to the piano, not ideal for live use here, a sound change should be immediately.

Funky 31 nice sort of James Brown style, house3 style quite good with vocoder effects if you like this sort of thing, latinfan very basic, longtrain is poor, drumkit demos nothing special here, vocalshots ideal for the kids to play with, mixstyles demo to me they all sound really tinny and the majority of the demos seem bathed in far too much reverb (reminds me of the G70 version 1 stuff), demostyles (all 8 mins worth) very poor styles on show here, tristezza nice sounding flute and style is quite good, Bluesgm style not very bluesy at all and finally someones rendition of besame mucho well my opinion here is certainly not going to be typed lol - sounds like a poor midi file played back with incorrect chords.

So it looks like Dom has made some minor advancements in the styles area but I still think that the Mediastation is definitely not to be used as an arranger keyboard, it's more for recording with and the DJ market.
It's a shame that someone can't get the styles and samples loaded on the hard drive to work together as I think software based instruments are definitely the way to go for the future (Wersi seem to know what they are doing in this department).
Well done to Dom and Lionstracs for being creative and taking a different approach, but I still think they have a long way to go before they can pull it all off and by the time that happens I can see the big named companies will have overtaken them.

Please remember that this is only MY opinion and everyone has the right to voice one on this forum. I am not having a go at Dom or Lionstracs and would gladly like to see any owner of the Mediastation replying on here as they never seem to do. Do any owners actually exists that visit Synthzone?

[This message has been edited by Craig_UK (edited 02-23-2006).]

Hi Craig,
don't really know anything about the instrument, but the demo's not terribly impressive.
He seems to be doing a lot of button pushing, butnothing much seems to be happening. Seems a bit repetative. It's probably just me.

best wishes
rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Craig_UK:
[B]

I am still following the mediastation.

I think the product is still not ready for release (I am expecting a release in late summer 2006)

The Linuxsampler used as sampler part in this instrument is officially release for all Linux versions in last Januari.
The development of this software sampler that reads Giga and Akai samples is an integral part of the lintracs development.

The switching from Organ to piano is From a vst plugin named Natibr instruments B4 (best hard/soft implementation of B3 emmulation to the Unixsampler Bosendorf. this apparently still Takes some buttonmashing. Thius definately needs still to improve.

But worst part of these videos is the demonstrator, he is a bully that misses all charisma, and barely speaks any english. If Peter Baardmans or mister Vocken would do the demonstrating they'd sell thousends immediately.

Okay many flaws are still on the bumpy road for lionstracs. though i still beleive Linux is the way to go and if they can overcome their problems, this could be a winner (next year or so) If their hardware parts are also topknotch offcourse.

I am hoping that things will look good in two weeks at the Musikmesse. I am also expecting something like this from General music.

And about the aranger. With the right software implementation (and they are working on that) the system can be programmed to work like any other keyboard that has great styles. And these styles can be used in the Lionstracs as native styles.

For live setup, i think the machine can be programmed in front for evey performance.
But Jazz and other improvisations will not suit this instrument.

Still my hopes are high. And i wonder why they send you a system knowing that it was not yet ready for release and still had many flaws.

Hello, I have one Mediastation from Lionstracs and I+m a user. My very personal opinion, I like to use it and I�m Happy. I think that are news soon. Thanks to all forum people.

Perhaps Filipe would like to tell us more about his experience with Lionstracs? If I were a 'happy' user I'd be elaborating a bit more on the virtues of this keyboard.

With all respect to the 'demonstrator' but that can hardly be called a demonstration. So far we've heard organ, piano, midi files, and... oh, that's it. It's a shame when the two demonstrators have to find their way around and aren't able to give a polished performance.

Has there ever been a Lionstracs review in any of the leading keyboard mags? So far I haven't been able to track one down and that has me wondering.

Linux or Windows, who cares? Wersi is doing great with Windows. All the hype about Windows crashing is a bit farfetched IMHO. I, for one, still have to experience my first crash.

Taike


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Khoi huk ngam sud tee huk kon diow.

Offcourse there have never been reviews in any keyboardmagazins.

The ssystem has not been released yet. So i highly doubt mister Philip having a mediastation at home, and i think what mister Gregg had was a demo model which was used by developers.

Bringing this software thing is a really hard thing. Espescially to make it bugfree. I think its more a prestige project to show the world what Linux is capable, then a true production orientated company.

I've been trying all night to find informationa bout this system, and except some old webpostings from end 2003, there is not much except the website of lionstracs itself.

But since i know that VST's can sound like awesome synths. A keyboard that uses these in cooperation with a top knotch DSP board has to sound awesome.

Now don't get me wrong i am a Linux enthousiast and agree that Linux is an awesome sytem fer projects like these. but using Linux with vst's that where designed for a windows PC, brings another hurdle to the challenge.

I will go and see these guys on the Musikmesse and report back to you all.

Hello again Forum people.
I�m using my Mediastation more in the "Arranger" Section, I try to expain you there more:
I use some audio styles and some "Normal Midi styles".
From some midi styles, I change/edit some sound�s ( tracks ) with my personal sound�s. (GigaFiles), like some bass�s and acompainments sounds, always with GIGA or by the new GM/GS mediastation sounds.
I playing with the right hand new GIGA sound�s with LinuxSampler.
The Linuxsampler installed on the Mediastation is one special version with integrated Effects.
About the new Linux OS, it�s stable and now the new OS is developed by one this company http://64studio.com/ it�s a dedicated OS system I think, But at same time "Compatible" because i�m using a external USB mouse and a USB PEN too.
Anyway, i suggest to people to visit Lionstracs to the Musikmesse and see all the news there.

Bachus I had the Mediastation last September and Filipe had one even before I did, so there is no doubt that he actually owns one of these. If mine was a demo model then I am not ammused since it cost me �2600 which is far more than the G70 or Tyros 2 costs.

Hi Filipe as well, long time no see.
I hope Dom isn't paying you to keep the Mediastation lol I thought you would have seen sense by now and given it him back.

I look forward to seeing a review of the Musikmesse and Mediastation. I'm surprised it's even going to be on show there.

Hi Craig, like you know I have one Mediastation. Mine is working fine.
I�m a private user and no body pay�s-me to work with my MS. I just play them because I like, it�s not to make any "favor" to any person.
I respect all Lionstracs ideias and tecnologies, and i Like them because is a diferent mode and filosofy to Work. Allways in the market there are solutions to all "Mind�s".
I can remember that I don�t have only Lionstracs Mediastation Keyboard, I have more keyboard�s from another companies too.
If in the world theres was only one Keyboard�s companie manufacturer this, Forum don�t makes sense, and you don�t need to choose a keyboard companie because it�s only one Brand, you don�t have choice. But there are many conpanies in the world, sow i can�t forbiden anybody to choose any companie. I don�t say to the poeple to don�t by the conpanie XY or Z just because I don�t like. But if I dont try e never can take one ideia about the Machine "XYZ".
Saw, independent off the personal preferences, let the people choose free. Anyway I think that the Lionstracs come with news in the Musikmesse and then all people can see news. Thanks to all people forum again.

I don't understand this.

Mediastation is still in development

Why can't Lionstracs be honest and just tell people that Mediastation is a development project and not a ready product

You can't make people pay for something that isn't finished yet. In software we would talk about things like Mediastaion will be entering beta phase soon. The products you two have or have had must clearly be alpha versions. very early in development.

As the planned operation system (System 64, debian based Linux) is still in development, current verion 0.6 was late, 0.7 is 3 months overdue allready and 1.0 should be done in 2 weeks, thats clearly not going to happen before late summer. And then Lionstracs has to get the final version of it working with their harware, and finetune it.

LinuxSampler Giga was released in Februari 2006, and should allready be implemented in final version in the mediastation. its an okay smapler, but not one with nearly the same possibillities that Kontakt or gigastudio have.

Next to that the final version of the instrument should have a touchscreen as one of the videos shows.

With wine and stuff like that more and more VST's are running under Linux, most Native instruments run, and some steinberg (not The grand) also on this part progression is being made by the linux community.

What worries me most is the quallity of their DSP boards, as they will be producing the audio that leaves the system they are so very important. Since i haven't heard the system live, i can't have an opinion on those. but this worries me most.

What i am missing most on the hardware part is knobs ...atleast 8 knobs that give me the opportunity to play with sounds and filtersettings live should be on the system and easy accessible.

In the end, i still beleive this project will give one of the most flexible instruments build to dat. with a release maybe on small scale after the summer, and a stable system in 2 years.

I as a Linux enthousiast and Solaris system admin will be following this very close. To bad the open source development teams are not so open source with their information.

I currently am looking intoo a Wersi ABACUS/OAS system, which runs under windows....perfect sound, but only 4 VST's can be choosen, and it takes to long on the instrument to change them in a life performance. So basically, when used to perform live on the system you choose 4 Vst instruments and use them in all your performances and stick with them all night. And thats just not flexible enough for me as a performer. I want more....I want Lionstracs to bring me the all in one solutionor maybe even General music surprise us at Musikmesse (they allways had these great ideas)
Next to that i think Korg made a big mistake by building their OASIS not in a way that it could load VST's too.

So for now we have 2 people that have played/heard the thing. So one thing i need to know from you guys Graig and Philipe. How is the quallitty of the DSP board. (Not the quallitty of the samples....but the quallity of 3rd party instruments that are used on the systems....the audio quallity)


Greetings

Bachus, I seen pictures that Domenik posted, showing about 50 units all ready to ship[3 months ago]..I am sure delivery has been made..It still could be a product that is continue updated OS refinement..

Yep

I have seen them the groove version (Oriental). Things like that really make me doubt the whole philosophy behind the company. Building a modular software synth is great, but releasing it before things are even halfway ready is bad. Espescially in the musical instruments buisness where reliabillity is more important then the product itself.

Things like that make me doubt the whole product and company.

Thank you for reminding me of that, allready pushed that to the back of my mind, maybe because this Workstation could be all that i ever dreamed about as a musician and a computer technician. Though i have so many doubts and thats probably the reason why i am posting here. I hoped to find people that could take away my doubts, but its actually getting worse even despite the fact that Philipe seems quite possitive. I still think this whole thing could even be a hoax, maybe things will clear up at april first when i visit the musikmesse.

Hello Bachus
For Live work I would think the Wersi Ikarus would be better as it is lighter to carry around then the Abacus.
I currently run OAS 6 on my Abacus, (Will be updating later in the year) and so only have a limited knowledge of OAS 7, but double check to see if the VST instruments can be stored in Presets, (Most functions of OAS can be) as if so you will not be limited to the same 4 all night.
Also check what separate VST Hosts are available, as some can be run as VSTs themselves, which means you can expand the number of VST Instruments available to you.
Finally please remember that each VST instrument requires processing power (CPU) and this is what will limit the amount of VST Instruments you can run simultaneously.
Can�t remember the name of the DSP cards used in the Mediastation, but they were Not made by Lionstracs, and were of high quality. BTW. Wersi use Creamware DSP boards.
Hope this helps, and don�t forget to post about anything you find at the MusicMesse.

Bill

Bachus, if you want something that sounds worse than a budget Casio and constantly needs an update to correct an updates faults then go for the Mediastation, otherwise stick with a company that has a better reputation like Wersi if you want VST's on your instrument. The Ikarus is amazing, I've heard it and played it, I just thought it was too expensive for what I was willing to pay at the time, but it's still on my hit list for maybe later this year. Be very careful with Lionstracs, if it was that good an instrument the owners would be praising it on here, instead no one ever bothers to put anything about it. I wonder why........

Hello forum people.
I think that I can explain better the Mediastation Arquitecture:


The Mediastation GM sound�s are attached in a BIG flash memory (Removible and upgraded by socket).
In other keyboard�s it�s impossible to do it. My Mediastation don�t have the same FLASH like factory ( Lionstracs was upgraded mine this year, more sound�s ).

I think Mediastatin use�s ENVY chip�s to makes 24 bit sound output�s. MS have too special PCI card�s inside.


First point: All the rest is linux based dedicated software.


With this Special feature we can have a New Keyboard just changing software, nice don�t ?


Wy I need to by new keyboard�s bettwen 2, 3 or 4 year�s ?
I remember again, al Hardware is ready to work and to next generation too.

Wy Tyros 1, Tyros2, psr9000. tecnhic�s kn......, solton MS. SD.. , KorgPAX, PX ( Attencion I have somes too ) makes new model�s ?
The conpanies need to upgrade the hardware. And if you can put your software from the XXXX last model conpanie inside a hold model ?
Like put Techincs KN1000 running the Technics Kn2000 ? Hardware inconpatibility off course. Other�s too, Like wy I need to by a SD5 ? Wy my SD1 don�t load SD5 software ?

In all life on My SD1, I only was 3 software updates maybe in 3 or 4 year�s. One Upgrade in my old Roland-G1000 in all life time.

I think it�s time to keep the same hardware and just makes software updates. ( new features other thing�s )

Again i tell to all people forum that I�m happy with my Mediastation.
Remember, Lionstracs are one dedicated team to one cause ( Mediastation ), not 1 team by many model�s and product�s.
Big conpanies make it ? Maybe yes, maybe not. I think the result off more Updates that the other�s keyboard is the intensive and very direccionated job from Lionstracs Team.

Thanks to all.

Filipe Tom�s - PORTUGAL

Hi Filipe,

Isn't that what Wersi's been doing for a couple of years now?

On the other hand, I do believe that even with this option people sooner or later will still buy a new model.

I don't see anything wrong with bringing out a new model every couple of years as one should also realize the other side of the story; economy. People need jobs and not everyone can be a software engineer. Thank goodness or I'd be without a job right now!

Taike

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Khoi huk ngam sud tee huk kon diow.

thats a shock to me Graig.

I knew that you didn;t like mediastations opperation, but i never knew you didn't like the sound of it.

What didn't you like of the sound

-its styles
-its sampled instruments
- the quallity of the soundoutput (DSP/soundcard)

or a combination of the above?

Hi Bachus.
The styles were a joke. They were worse than very bad, they had little or no intro's to them, no endings, very lifeless and badly programmed midi files. If you can imagine converting a Tyros 2 style through EMC styleworks for a low end Yamaha PSR model you get the idea, it simply doesn't work or sound good. The quality of the sampled instruments were very poor and were no way near the quality used in the Tyros 2, SD1, G70 etc. Fair enough I had a huge piano sample (2GB is it?) but this didn't do anything for me and neither did the VST organ plugin which was badly implemented with the way the instrument works. The sound output I can't comment on as mine had serious faults and I used to get dreadful buzzing noises or samples locking up on me.
Having heard the new demos on Lionstracs site, in my opinion the sounds and styles are still of a very poor quality considering that this instrument is up there with the top end arrangers on cost.
I've said it before, the idea is an excellent one but I don't think they will ever get it all working correctly. If you want plugins stick with Wersi at least they know what they are doing and their instruments sound good.

Okay....so i'll have to go and hear this for myselves. On one side we have Philip who is a true lionstrac supporter, on the other side we have Graig who is a true lionstracs hater. I'll report my own opinion to you after the Messe.

Currently i am leaning more towards Wersi, but they also have some mad customers becasue of some dirty tricks played with the hardware part of upgrading to OAS7.

An other option i am currently thinking of is a true masterkeyboard/software setup with OMB, just wondering if OMB is suit for live play with a good masterkeyboard setup to switch part of my styels.

Still i am hoping for General music to surprise me.

Hello Bachus
Follow this link to find out about the OAS 7 Hardware Saga, which has now been resolved. http://www.yourhobby.nl/forumorgel/viewtopic.php?t=1393&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Have a look at this site http://www.tornado-music.de/videomain.html to see another Controller Software option. (For Demos follow the Solitaire link, as the rest of the Demos are Rubbish)

Bill

THE TORNADO - LIVE!

Zur Zeit sind keine Video Demos verf�gbar

There are no video demos currently.

Dang thats would not be my choice, i think when you get the wersi adn the B4 Organ VST from NI you have more then enough organs then you'll ever need, (espescially with the option to load your own AKAI samples intoo the wersi with hte latest version of OAS7).

The Tornado is all about organs and samples, where i am interested in VST's and virtual instruments and effects.

The wersi's shortcomming is that you can't plug in any VST effects (anyone ever tried vst guitar amp and effects emulators) Now thats what i mean.....the steinberg guitar VST combined with these effects makes the TYROS 2 (although these guitars are quite good) pee in a little hole. ( If you use a professional sound card /DSP, and not a creative junk one)

Bachus I agree with you on the guitars. The Tyros 2 and other arrangers can't compete with the Steinberg guitars and some other software based ones, but for an arranger keyboard in a live use situation they are extremely realistic and it sure beats carrying a computer around with you linking it up to a master keyboard I play quite a few songs from the likes of Queen, U2, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits and the Tyros 2 sounds spot on. By the way I've edited almost all of the preset sounds and have got them all to my own personal taste now, the editor is the best thing about the T2. It's taken me from November up to a week back to do it though but it was well worth while.

SO i visited the Messe yesterday.

First i had a good look around, i really liked the Wersi OAS systems sound, Still thought the Tyros was best in the style department. I was amazed at the Native instruments KORE, and the possibilities of it. ( A vst driven sound engine) And lastly but not least, i was blown away by the sound of Korg's OASYS.

Then i tried to find Lionstracs, and indeed i found them in a far corner, pushed away from to much media attention.

The sounds of the mediastation where allright, though i still think that the VST's played at NI where sounding much better. Thats prolly because of the "Soundcard" quallity. ANd PA set-up.

Styles of the mediastation where not making the Cut. But i had a talk with some of the developers that where there and they told me about the option to import all brands styles and play them on the Mediastation. Even creating virtual instruments for certain types of styles ( Virtual Tyros for tyros and yamaha styles, but that part is still in the makes) I have to admit i was blown away by the options and the possibillities that a mediastation give you, its the true all in one keyboard from the go (only missing knobs to edit sounds real time)

But now the real question on everyone's lip, will mediastation ever be released. This question could noboddy truly answer at Lionstracs, as they had to admit that lionstracs was more a Linux development project then a true company. Serial production of the instruments is very far off as the instruments available now are all handmade.

So i guess that answers all the questions.
-An unbeleivable number of options
-reasonable sound
-Prolly no professional support at all

Maybe some other company will take over the concept and make it intoo a real keyboard machine.

*** Most interesting was my talk over at Korg, they had a new synthesizer (STR-1) implemented intoo the Oasys. (use to create virtual string instruments) and where working on some pretty nice other projects.Another VL synth for windinstruments is also almost ready. An engine to play Korg styles on the OASYS (using the (touch sensitive pads) to controll fill/in variation. and an interface to controll a remote computer with VST's on the Korg OASYS screen. But then this units price is still way out of most people's reach.


So you can guess what made most impression on me?


[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 04-02-2006).]

So in other words, Lionstracs is an experiment, not a finished product?

and if we guess the oasys, do we get a prize!!! ...i reckon its an awesome keyboard, and if they are adding style play capability..whew!!! what a wee beastie!!!!
dennis

If Lionstracs is an experiment or as you say when will it be released, what the hell did they sell me then for �2600 other than the pile of plop I received?
Reading this makes me more annoyed with the way they fobbed me off with a product that clearly wasn't ready to be released. Is Domenico selling these unfinished products to fund more research?
Good riddens to them!

NAme it what you want experiment or project or even fundraising using Graigs wallet. The idea is still to my liking, the implementation not.

And to the Oasys, its been around for almost a year now and in its full setup with sampler and such costs almost �8000 and is to expensive for any non professional players.

more following this projext now from my Unix background.

Lionstracs syas that Kontakt 2 is now running on the Mediastation, but if you do some more research in the Linux music buiseness you easilly find out that the Linux VST host now runs NI kontakt 2 and so for it runs on the mediastation.
So all kudos to the Linux VST workgroup.