hey dudes. i was having an argument with a friend the other day about whether its more professional to be more adept at playing by sheetmusic or by ear. i can hear both sides, because when you have sheetmusic, you can play anything! you arent limited to what you know. on the other hand, if you know a song, but you dont have the sheetmusic, then your messed over. so i just wanted to hear your opinions on this. thanks so much. Zack

The best thing is to develop your skills in both directions, I think. I have met and played with professional musicians in national orchestras that are surprisingly (to me!) unable to play by ear.

When I started playing piano (at 8 y.o.) my teachers always emphasized playing by sheetmusic, along with a lot of scales and other technical skills but didn't pay to much attention to music listening and ear training. I found that much later with two jazz teachers.

I feel that with time, I lost a lot of my musical reading skills, but improved my ear and my ability to capture and understand a certain song or performance. I guess that my personal experience makes me think that both approaches are important.

-- José.

[This message has been edited by matias (edited 07-29-2002).]

Hi,
I fully agree with Matias and advise to develop both.
While performing I usualy use sheet-music with only melody-lines and chords. In fact I could play without, but I feel 'stronger' with the sheets in front of me. Details in chord-usage probably would disappear without the sheets and it is easy to lose the 'track'.
Professional Show Bands in The Netherlands all want musicians that are able to play without sheets and no mistakes are allowed.

Roel

Hi Folks,
Like a coin , this has two sides. I would like to share a story: When I was first learning to play guitar, my teacher wanted me to learn to play by reading music. I would watch him play and found that I could "mimic" what he was doing easier than reading music. He got the piont, when he was teaching me something, he would turn away saying that I should learn the music and not "mimic" what he was doing. Now I don`t know about anybody else but it seems to me that if you learn, whats the diference (of course he was prepairing me for solo work and to improvise). I learned the scales the "circle of 5th`s" and all that "stuff" but the real fun, at least for me is watching someone play and trying the same thing myself and find that I learn it faster than studying the music. I no longer take lessons and it`s been a long time since I have, But when I pick up my guitar after hearing a "blues-lick" or a "cool-lead" and try to play it , I think it comes easier now that I`m not taking lessons and I enjoy it more.
When it comes to playing KB or Organ I still rely on sheet music for some songs , while others I`ve memorized. So in the end I think it realy doesn`t matter it takes skill to do either !!
jedi

Ya know, I get asked this question quite often. I have been the Music Minister in my local church for going on twenty years. I am not proficient at sight reading a score. I have had the desire to be better at reading sheet music, but cling to my crutch that is " I would rather play with my own feeling put into the music rather than be forced into playing someone elses " I know, that is not an accurate statement all of the time, but it is the one I use. I'm sure we all wish we were better in certain areas of our talent, However, when you get older, and set in your ways its hard to change. (Or rather its hard to want to change.)

Regards,
Dennis Almond

I can relate to your story Jedi. When I had started taking piano lessons my teacher (who required scales and reading) said if I didn't practice she wasn't going to teach me. Boy talking about an opportunity to kill 2 birds with one stone. I still continued playing by ear and enjoying the music. Then we met a guy playing in a restaurant and my Mom (as moms will do) encouraged me to play for him. He liked my style and them became my teacher for the next 3 years. The first lesson he looked at me and said: "I heard you don't like to practice. That's OK. I get paid anyway ."
Well he was very good and allowed me to play whatever I wanted. I didn't know how to read music when we finished (without going Every Good Boy...) but he taught me a LOT of theory to use for playing. I also would watch his hand movements and memorize them. I used this method to play for the stage band in High School.
Now I can read right hand pretty well and due to the fact of learning a lot of theory can use the Fake Books to quickly learn a song I didn't know before. It is still easier if I have heard the song since I still play by ear along with the radio and tapes.

I now use the sheet music for some songs and memorize others for the same reasons Roel listed.

So I guess my answer is all of the above. The mores skills you have the better.

- Brian
(If you do what you enjoy you never have to work again.)

Hi Matias

Congratulations for perfect reply.
You said all.
Regards , Chico
Você sabe tudo,amigo.

I began formal classical piano lessons at 4 and quickly became a proficient sight reader. As impressive as it may seem, I really suffered because my 'playing by ear' abilities were not encouraged or developed. It wasn't till I got into high school (playing rock and then jazz) that I finally appreciated how important 'playing by ear' is to your development as a complete musician. The printed music on a page is just a means to document the notes and provide basic tempo & volume indicators. On top of that, most commerically sold pop sheet music is arranged using bland chords (not the ones actually played on the record), and it's arrangement typically bland & totally out of context' to the song's original style. Many song's grooves, accents & phrasing just cannot be indicated on paper. Only by listening (with your ears), and memorizing can you make the song 'come to life'.

I perform my core repetoire by ear (memory), but rely on leadsheets (w/chords & lyrics) to serve as more of a road map for songs I'm not that familiar with. If I know the chord progression of a song, I can then easily improvise the melody & arrangerment by ear.

As a solo keyboard entertainer, I think it's important not to give the audience the impression you're reading from music. They need to feel that the music is coming from YOU. When politicians give speeches, they sound far less convincing when they look as if they're reading it from text. Eye contact & interaction with your audience is critcally important.

Scott

Like Scott, I began to play at a very early age. I was so young I really cannot even remember it, except that my aunt had an organ and a piano and every time I went to her house I wanted to play on it. I started getting serious about it believe it or not, at the ripe old age of 6, when I received my first organ as a Christmas gift. I had no lessons early on, so I had to learn by ear.

Like Scott, I think that I also suffered ... in my case because I did not learn to read at all. I taught myself to read music much later in life and I think that it was important for me to do so, as keyboard playing takes up a lot of the spectrum of my life. It's best in my case to know both, but I would personally suffer a lot more if I couldn't play by ear rather than the reverse. I think in today's world though, especially with keyboards as my primary instrument, understanding midi notation is just as valuable an asset ( if not more in my own case ) as knowing standard notation. I almost never "write" in standard notation, but I often "jot" ideas inside of a midi piano roll.. even sometimes at my other computer.. There are no keyboards or modules available at that computer but it has sequencers and a SB card with soundfonts, so if an idea comes at least I can "jot" down a basic melody line or rythym track for it.

Like Scott, I began to play at a very early age. I was so young I really cannot even remember it, except that my aunt had an organ and a piano and every time I went to her house I wanted to play on it. I started getting serious about it believe it or not, at the ripe old age of 6, when I received my first organ as a Christmas gift. I had no lessons early on, so I had to learn by ear.

Like Scott, I think that I also suffered ... in my case because I did not learn to read at all. I taught myself to read music much later in life and I think that it was important for me to do so, as keyboard playing takes up a lot of the spectrum of my life. It's best in my case to know both, but I would personally suffer a lot more if I couldn't play by ear rather than the reverse. I think in today's world though, especially with keyboards as my primary instrument, understanding midi notation is just as valuable an asset ( if not more in my own case ) as knowing standard notation. I almost never "write" in standard notation, but I often "jot" ideas inside of a midi piano roll.. even sometimes at my other computer.. There are no keyboards or modules available at that computer but it has sequencers and a SB card with soundfonts, so if an idea comes at least I can "jot" down a basic melody line or rythym track for it.

I've always played by ear ever since I can remember. I've been a two-handed player from the start. My parents couldn't afford to send me for music lessons and, much later, when I was in my mid-thirties, I did start going to a music teacher but I gave it up because I too was mimicking rather than than 'reading the dots'.
There's not to much I can't handle in pop and rock music, but I sometimes wish I had been taught the proper way as, due to my self-learned, improper fingering technique, there are some limitations in my playing. For instance, I don't have the fluidity in jazz and blues licks going up the keuboard as I do in playing down the keyboard. For some peculiar reason, I don't use the third finger of my right hand very much and there are some key signatures I wouldn't touch with a 10' barge pole, i.e., C sharp, E flat, F sharp, A flat or even B (thank goodness we can dodge around that one with the transpose button these days).
I'm a decent enough singer and can read chord symbols easily enough, so with that and a fast ear, I find that the 'skills' that I do have are quite adequate enough. But that old 'what if' does haunt me from time to time.

I've heard very few people who play totally by ear that do a good job. Most miss some of the chord changes, play a F chord instead of a Dmin7, and have no clue what an augmented or diminished chord is. Three chord country or Louie Louie type R & R may work OK for the ear player but let's hear them play "All The Things You Are" or "Wave". My teacher made me play by music, chords and by ear. I think that was a good combination.

Tom

thanks for all your replies. and the duplicates. (?) i taught myself to play three years ago, and i started by teaching myself sheetmusic. so i became adept at reading music way before i started to learn to play by ear. at first i was horrible at the whole ear thing. thank g-d, now i've made a vast improvement and can usually figure out a song with simple chords on the spot. and after seeing all of your posts and thinking it over, i gotta agree that of course they are both important, and that we should concentrate on developing both, because of changing situations and also to develop ourselves as performers. i also agree with scotty, that the crowd appreciates it more if they dont know where its coming from. if they SEE the source, even iof they dont neccesarily understand it, it still cheapens it for them. also, Roel made an excellent point, being that with the music in front of you, its like a guide, your less likely to go off track. i find that when im doing dinners or slow bits, it always helps to have the chords at the very least in front of me. helps me focus. so those are my thoughts. thanks for all your wonderful insights. its funny, though, i feel like a mere simpleton among wise men. you all have been playing for years and years. im just 18, and i only started when i was 15!

Looking forward to sapping more of your wisdom!
Zack

Unfortunately, I did not have the luxury of a teacher. I was grateful that my family even found the money to buy me a modest organ when I was a child. I learned how to read later on to see what I might have been missing.. And I was missing quite a few things. Having said that however, I guess all along I was picking up things and "reading" to a point because I knew what a dim chord or and augmented chord consisted of long before I considered myself able to read music. I started by carefully reconstructing the 8 chord variations on those Silvertone organ chord buttons and then picked up a book of chords and went from there. Later I delved into practice of emulating and reproducing pieces and solos done by players like Rick Wakeman and Keith Emerson before trying to develop my own style of play.

I know how to read now but more often than not I play TOTALLY by ear, unless I'm called upon to play a specific piece that has to imitate the original and I'm not very familiar with the piece. Then I use a similar approach to what Scott decribes. I happen to think I do a pretty good job and will gladly sit in and feel comfortable with my skills along side the players who do both and / or don't play by ear and can't play a note if the sheet music isn't in front of them. There is nothing wrong with the latter btw, but I think that it's too much of a blanket statement to say that people who play by ear don't play the right chords or imply that ear players can't play out of the spectrum of 3 chord rock and roll. On the contrary, I play a lot of jazz and jazz fusion and I can improvise, and I think I was doing a pretty fair job of it before i felt that I was really able to read music. Judging by some of the other players I've been priveleged to play with, I know I'm not an exception to the rule.

I agree with the consensus though that it is best to know and be able to do both. Although I rarely read, when I write my own music, even using midi notation, I always in some way am applying some fundamentals. I may do it consciously at times, but more often I think it's subconscious too. I don't picture 16th notes per se, but I know when I'm using them.


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 07-30-2002).]

Hi Everyone,
Does anybody do this;
Play a song that you know and use the music just for the chords?
I have found a couple of sites that have "chords & lyrics" but no music (notes) not "tab-sites" just fan sites I think, can`t remember.
Anyway I find it easy to play a song that I know and use the chords as a "road map" (like Scott suggested) .
jedi

It almost seems from Tom Cavanaugh's oft-repeated input immediately after my post on this subject that his impression is that few 'by ear' players are able to step outside the spectrum of three or four chords.

Just for the record I will state that I am one of the few, then. I worked professionally in the UK for many years with regular live broadcasts on the BBC and appeared at live functions for the royal family in addition to having recorded a number of singles one of which, the title music from a movie, broke into the UK top 20.

So, I guess this blows Mr. Cavanaugh's theory out of the water somewhat, and I would add that I was not alone. There were (and are) many players better than I with only a darn good ear to go on.

Another point worth mentioning on this topic is that I've known plenty of red hot sight readers who've possessed not one ounce of 'feel' - now there's a real drawback.

Hi Big Red,
Have you ever met an "arranger-producer" Alan Parsons?
Just curio` (I`m a fan )
jedi

A lot of "by ear" musicians have a strange preference for C major and A minor tones.
I think that would be a "Black complex"
Chico

Jedi,
I have obtained music with just the chords and lyrics for years and can play from them. Sometimes if I am with guitar players that is all I can get from them. The fake books sometimes have a melody line and that helps some but I usually add to it either between the notes or include the full chord with my right hand.

I agree with Big Red about the playing by ear musicians. Since I did music theory first I knew about the different chords before I could read music. I admit when I first started playing (under the age of 13) that my chords were basic (major, minor and mostly I chords). Big Red, it is fantastic what you have accomplished. I think its great!

Again I think it is good to know both. But most important to enjoy yourself and have a good time with it.

- Brian

Big Red,

Sorry about all the duplicate entries. Everytime I hit submit yesterday my computer would lock-up. I thought I wasn't being successful in submitting my reply. I've tried to delete the duplicates.

When you say that you play by ear do you mean that:
1. you don't read music and never have
2. You never use fake books or ever have
3. you don't know a C chord from a F chord?
4. you couldn't find middle C if your life depended on it.

I know that there are players who do a good job that meet the above criteria. You must be one. Just because you are the exception doesn't make my premise false. I gave lessons to the daughter of just such a player. He owned a bar and played a B3. It is just that they are very few and far between. Ask most of the members on this forum and they will tell you, that when someone asks to play or sit in and they say that they play by ear, most of us inwardly CRINGE. It is like the "Singers" who come up and want to sing with you.
The first professional job that I played I played for two hours without music (I forgot it). Does that mean I play by ear? No I just played songs that I knew.

Do I play by ear? It's easier to use my fingers.

Tom

well said, tom. and i was wondering about the duplicates. anyway, i have a close friend who plays totally by ear, and he wont go near a piece of music, but he does know a little theory. hes very big into harmony, and he plays quite well. but if anything, i, who plays almost totally using sheets, have more feeling when i play than he does. so i dont think that the whole feel thing is limited to ear people. i think it simply depends on the person. Zack

I equate musicianship to any other form of education. There are "street smarts" and "book learning" Both are viable and noteworthy (No pun) and each has a distinct advantage. It is very possible to achieve high levels of success playing only "by ear" but in order to be really complete as a musician ... you need to read as well. It's just like learning to talk. Babies learn to talk without reading, and that's OK for a while, but in order to take it to the next level, it's important to learn to read so you can broaden the scope of your knowledge with the experiences of others.

In the practical world of music performance - I'd rather play with a cat that has soul and feeling rather than just theory and technical training anyday. There is only so much the books can teach you, and then it's up to the player to make the notes their own. There are many people that have studied, and peaked early on and they will never develop "soul" or ever know the real meaning of how to "swing." These are things that have to be FELT. You can't teach these skills, and no books can even come close to showing you how. You either HAVE it or you DON'T. (hard truth?)

Music exists on the page, AND in the heart. It's a beautiful combination of form and fashion, and you should treat yourself to the entire experience.

I could read fly paper in college, but these days .... my performances are almost all done exclusively by ear. Even when I learn new material - I just sit down with the CD and start picking out notes till I get it.

Don't debate the validity of the two playing methods - they are both VERY real. Learn both, and you will be that much more complete as a musician.

Jedi - No, I've never met Alan Parsons but I've had Jimmy Page and Chris Spedding (these guys weren't using charts either) in on a couple of sessions back in the 60's.

Magic User - Thanks for your kind comment. The odd thing is, I don't really think of these things as 'accomplishments' as such. It wasn't really all that difficult, London was such a happening place in the 60's and 70's.

Tom Cavanaugh - To answer your questions, 1. Nope, never read a note of music in my life. This is because, regrettably, I've never had the patience to sit down and study it, my ears run away with me. 2. Nope again. I've never used fake books. 3. Chords have never presented a problem for me. Maj, min, dim, aug, et cetera in any inversion come easily enough to me. 4. I can find any key on the board and yes, I also prefer play to with my fingers :-).

Uncle Dave - Good, common sense, in your post. I would agree that a combination of both a good ear and proper training is the best of all worlds (this is what I was getting at in my first post when I said my fingering technique is all wrong) and, like yourself, give me the guys who can swing or rock any day of the week over the sterility (for want of a better word) of a lot of sight readers.

Oops, I've probably offended many sight readers out there now. But to paraphrase Uncle Dave, you either swing or you don't. That is the hard truth of it, unfortunately.

But hey, it's only rock an' roll and I like it.

Yeah ... what HE said!

Started playing drums (by way of my father) at the age of 6. Now the odd thing is, is my father was a musician all his life.. but when you start on drums (unless it's timpani) you don't really get into notes. Yes he instructed me of course on rests, etc. He got me into the cadet thing which I did until 11 or 12.
But I never took any formal training for either guitar or piano, which I really regret. One thing that facinates me, and this isn't always the case, but I've seen it a lot, is where a proficient pianist or guitarist can sit down with music in front of them...you take it away, and they're lost. This isn't the case with every pianist or guitarist, but I've sat down with them in the past, we've done a song, with them reading and myself playing by ear, and they've been totally lost without the music in front, no matter how many times they've played it. I would love to have that ability in addition to playing by ear. I don't sight read although I can plunk the music out given the time to break it down. I believe there's a lot to be said for both methods, or a combination of the two.
Just my thots.

There is a thought that both sight-reading and playing by ear are tools along the road towards pure expression. If you think about it, whether you learn music by eye or ear, you are required to formulate music through a series of mental processes until the input (the music you either see or hear) somehow equals the output (what you play). Really, what you are learning is hand and eye or hand and ear coordination. That's not really creating music, except as an after effect. Secretaries use pretty much the same skills when transcribing written and verbal meeting notes. Natural musicians (ie: those who play great with no training at all) rarely play a song the same way twice. Each time, they play what they feel which changes from moment to moment. The only term that encompases this phenomena is talent. Everything done to learn music is in fact a process used to emulate natural talent. So the goal of learning how to play music is actually to grow beyond what you read or hear and advance to a state of total self-expression. Essentially: we learn the rules, we apply the rules, we break the rules. For those with "the gift", there are no rules.

I wonder how Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder developed their magnificent talents. Do they really know how AbM7+9 looks like?

Both are important but

-Learning music reading and not having the talent (which I call the musical ear) will not make you a good musician
-Having the musical ear and not learning how to read music can still make you a good musician (with all due humbleness I am a living proof of that).

I won't deny though that I would love to be able to sit down and have a sheet music infront of me and just play it without having to have pre-listened to it. I wonder though, will I give it he same feeling as having listened to it and felt it before playing it?

My two cents.

Like others, I play by ear the stuff I know and have lead sheets for stuff I don't know. I can play "full sheet" but as I do this infrequently I find I've got rusty and tend to use the sheet music as a check to make sure my "by ear" version is still accurate!

I think you have to develop both. As mentioned already (and I can confirm this from personal experience) if you work purely by ear you can "miss" chords especially as the chords move away from "C Major" toward "C minor plus 9 and 11 with Bflat bass". Using sheet music can "teach" you chord and harmonic structures that you might not have met before; once you know what they sound like you become more able to "decode" songs you listen to. Certainly I have listened to a song on the radio that I learned yonks ago, and haven't heard for a while, and think "so thats what that chord is..." having played the wrong one for years!

It's pretty much all been said but I'll through in my bit too.

In reality, I think the more well rounded one can be with the musical knowledge the better off they will be, so if one can do both it can't hurt. That being said though, I think it really it depends on what and how you are doing your music. If you want to be a studio musician,or are doing covers, playing with other readers....you need to read. If on the other hand you are doing your own thing, it may not be necessary.

Over the years having been in several bands, (jazz mostly)I will say my preference for playing with other players has been to have people in the band that could just feel it (non readers)over the readers. The readers to me had too stringent and restrained of a style, too mechanical. For me they got too bogged down in the technical aspect of playing rather than getting into the groove and feel of the piece.

Me, I read only enough not to hurt my playing.
jam on,
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 08-02-2002).]