Well, I had been checking out those logitech systems for a while now, debating which system, new vs. used etc. and decided to get a new z 5500 system.
Amazon has them at $279 atm and also a offering a $30 mail in rebate for a total cost of $249 and free shipping. I don't think that price can be beat anywhere else and the system is on it's way to me as I write this.
As soon as I get a chance to mess with it a while I'll probably get a set-up like Gary's.
The stands etc.
I have a system already that I can use for bigger jobs but would rather not haul the extra weight when I don't have to, and the z5500 sounds like it will fill the smaller venue niche nicely.
All the info, reviews, etc that gets posted on this site is priceless.
Nigel, Man you Rock!
And thanks to all of you guys and gals out there. I haven't been posting much but I am reading everyday. And one day soon hope to contribute more.
in the meantime
Best to all of you.

------------------
The old Newb

You're gonna love what you hear. If you have problems with the setup, email and I'll be more than happy to walk you through the pitfalls.

Gary

Thank you Gary.
And I will e-mail when I am ready to begin construction. I may even be asking you as to best way for hooking up etc. if you do not mind.
Best regards



------------------
The old Newb

Can anyone generalize how much more bang for the buck you get from the 5500 versus the 2200? I have the 2200 and I love it. But I might have an opportunity to get a gig at a crowded bar where there would be 100 to 200 young people. That's a pretty loud place, lots of yakking going on.

This would not be dance music. Singer-songwriter and honky tonk singalong stuff, guitar/vocal. So far, I haven't even gone past 25% but these have been small crowds, and everyone is listening, not yakking.

One other thing... is there any advantage to putting the five speakers of the 5500 on separate stands? I have my 2200's two satellites on top a mic stand. Why not just have a platform like I have and flare those five speakers into almost a semi-circle. Is there any NEED to have stands spread around the stage?

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 02-24-2005).]

SemiLiveMusic,
You pose an interesting question.
I could envision certain venues where a speaker arrangement like you suggest could be not only functional but possibly even preferable. I could also see a benefit to using, on occasion, 4 seperate stands instead of the two, and setting up one pairin the normal stage area and the other pair further out in the room to help cover a LONNNNGGG room. You know the sub will cover but the satelites spread out could be the better route in some rooms.
I guess it all depends on the needs of each room and it's dimensions etc. Also if it is a very "live" room could make diference on how you may want to set up. possibly lower volumes but with speakers spread more may be preferable...
Lots of possibilities. But it's easy to get too carried away with complex set ups sometimes. I am a strong believer in the old and true "kiss" rule. You know, "Keep It Simple Stupid" ( no offense of course)

------------------
The old Newb

Semilive, I've performed using this system for crowds to 125 and had no problems, however, most were older and spent the night dancing. From my personal observations, young people rarely dance, they like their music loud and louder, and then they shout at the top of their lungs to talk to the person next to them at the table. Much of the questions you posed are subject to a large number of variables, room size, ceiling height, wall material, whether or not you're on a stage, and lots of other factors that go into selecting and EQing a sound system.

For any size crowd, I've always felt the speakers should be on stands, above the heads of everyone in the room. The only speakers that should never be on a stand, or course, is the subwoofer. Take a look at the music tips section of the PSR Tutorial and you'll have a better idea of how to set things up for your particular venues and needs.

As for the power and clarity of the 5500 vs the 2200, the difference is incredible. The 2200 was good, but the 5500 is awesome. Let your ears be the judge, however, before putting your money down.

Good Luck,

Gary

You mean in quality or volume? Both I guess is what you mean. How can you measure "power" or "volume?" Would you say 5500 is twice as loud?

WELL I SURE LOVE MY 5500, SET UP LIKE SUGGESTED BY GARY ,SUPER I MUST SAY, BEST REGARDS , BENNO

Though I don't have a portable DB meter available, I would venture a guess the volume level is at least 40 percent higher. The quality is at least 75 percent better than the 2200s. Part of this is due to the fact that when I'm performing using the PSR-3000 and Z-5500, sound is coming from 8 speakers, six of which are the 5500 system, plus the 2 onboard keyboard speakers. That's a whole lot of sound being transmitted into the room.

I've never been above boost #4 on the main volume during a performance, but it have taken the volume to max just once to see how much headroom was available and it was unreal.

However, I do not recommend running any sound system at maximum level. First and foremost, you're inviting blown speakers at the very least. Additionally, while this system has incredible clarity, distortion can be a problem with any sound system set to maximum volume. Kinda' like driving a car with the gas pelal mashed to the floor all the time--hell-of-a-ride, but something under the hood is gonna' fry in less time than you think.

As I said earlier, let your ears be the judge. If you decide to purchase the system, make sure the store has a good return policy and no restocking fees.

Good Luck,

Gary

One more, Gary. Say for small gigs like I use the 2200 for now... if I were using the 5500, are you saying at the same volume (apparent) level, the sound would be dramatically superior? More clarity or whatever?

I was thinking that it would very interesting to test the 5500 against a Bose PAS. $300 versus $2000. There is no way to know unless you try it but for singer-songwriter dudes like me, people go nuts over that Bose system.

I am getting a similar result with my 2200 setup... (room coverage and no monitors required). The speakers are flared on the stand, so they cover the whole room. And I get the benefit of no monitors because the speakers are behind me. I have had no trouble with feedback.

I figure the Bose is better but I wonder if it's 7 times more better than the 5500. It just might be a helluva secret, these cheesy Logitech systems.

I know this... people comment on how good it sounds. And I certaily don't know what I'm doing.

Good Luck,

Gary

Well, the Bose system for a singer-songwriter would not be $5,000, it would be $2,000. Plus tax. One pole, one sub. But sheesh, the 5500 and a mixer = about $300.

The Bose is supposed to have some kind of less die-off effect, where the sound you hear 4 feet away (behind you) is about the same the audience hears.

I forgot something else about the Bose... people rave about the clarity. It would have to be light years better for seven times the cost.

I'm glad you two had this dialogue going. I just ordered a Z5500 from Amazon.I also love my Z2200, but playing next to a 25 pc band for dances with 150 people was just a little too much for it.

Gary, I'm going to need a little help too with setup suggestions. I will checkout tutorial as well.

Thanks guys
Bernie

Bill,

The Bose PAS system must be heard to believe the hype--it's all true. The sound you hear with your jammed against the speaker pole (sound colum) is the same level as the sound you hear 60 feet away, even when there is a partial wall between you and the performer. I traveled 3 hours to hear it, and I suggest you do the same if you're serious about buying one. However, keep in mind that if your keyboard has a stereo output, some stero sampled sounds will not sound as rich or full in mono as they do in stero, thus the reason I mentioned a pair of them. And, you hear exactly what the audience is hearing, regardless of where you are in the room, 4 feet away or 100 feet away, or sitting on top of the speaker. It's the same everywhere.

Bernie,

I'll be more than happy to help you with any questions you may have.

Gary

I'm using the Z5500 system thanks to Gary and set it up the same as he did. I've only used it out once, so far since I've got it, that was in a room about 40'X 80' with 10' ceilings and about 80 or so people, I ran a midi and walked the room beforehand, and noticed no matter where I went the sound was close to the same as about 15' away from the setup. The volume was a little less at the back of the room, but not a lot. These puppies really work, and I don't know how many wanted to know if the sound was bose and was it coming from those tiny speakers and raved at the tremendous stereo sound. The 10" sub sure makes a difference. Happy camper here. Thank again to Gary.

Pose

I have been searching for the pictures of Gary's setup. I can't seem to find them.

hi bernie,here they are http://psrtutorial.com/Resources/musictips.html ,mike

Hi Mike
Thank you for the site. I never would have found it.

Bernie

I just got my Z5500 and it is better than the Z2200. For one thing,the leslie effect would not come out with the Z2200,but is very clear with the Z5500.

I cannot figure out how to get more than two speakers to sound with a single stereo source,however. Gary,or anyone know the answer ?

Bernie

I Just recieved my system also and I really like it even though I have not spent that much time with it yet as far as tweaking sub woofer levels vs. eq'ing the keyboard differently.
As for the stereo thing, In the effects section, you can choose from different setups. Stereo, (which uses just one pair of satelites) Stereo2 (which uses all 4 satelites) And the movie and music choices which will include the center speaker and surround sound balances. I hope this helps you.
Would explain in greater depth but running late for work now.
Good luck
------------------
The old Newb

[This message has been edited by OldNewb (edited 03-04-2005).]

Ok, here's the setup:

Connect all speakes to the appropriate connectors, then hook up the remote reciever.

Using the adaptor cable that came with the system (1/8-inch stereo to 2 male RCA plugs) and a pair of RCA female to 1/4-inch male adpaters (avialble at Radio Shack), plug in the 1/4-inch males to the keyboard's output jacks.

Plug the 1/8-inch male into the side of the remote reciever where you see the musical notation.

Now, set the small switch on the back of the reciever to the full up position (6 Channel Direct)

On the front of the reciever, select Pro-Logic II by pressing the effect button.

Now, turn all satellite volumes to maximum and set the sub volume at 50 percent.

Turn on your keyboard, set the volume at a comfortable level, then slowly adjust the Z-5500's main volume to a comfortable level as well.

NOTE: When the volume reaches maximum, you have not really reached the total, maximum volume level. By repeadedly turning up the volume after the indicator reaches maximium, you enter the BOOST LEVELS, which are sufficient to blow the windows out of your home. The highest I've taken this was Boost 6, and that was for an audience of 120 people.

Hope this helps,

Gary

Thank you Old Newb and Gary.I've about got it now.
Bernie

A word of caution to anyone using a Z5500. I have managed to cause considerable damage. For a couple of months I had no problems but then at a gig two weeks ago I suddenly got bad distortion which made me think that I had blown at least one of the speakers. I was using high volume at the time.

When I set up at home afterwards I quickly found that the distortion was not being caused by the speakers but was coming from the amp itself. I am now using the Z5500 speakers with the Z2200 amp and they work fine but I am being VERY careful how much oomph I put into them.

Trevor

Just a off the beaten path about pushing the volume more than a system can handle...I love my Roland Keyboard Cubes [3 way with 15's].. They push as much as I ever needed and have the bottom that I want...for 20 years....Uncle Dave asked me why I don't sell the relics....I think I answered his question in my previous statement...

Trevor
Did you have it in the high boost range ?
Bernie

No Bernie. It was just at maximum on the normal level scale. I was probably putting too much through the mixer.

Trevor

Gary,
You were right about this z5500, I love what I hear. The power/clarity coming from such a portable system is unbelievable. I was worried about the vocal sound through the system but I shouldn't have. The vocals are great (especially considering their humble source). The sub is a bit overbearing until turned down a bit, but when it's mixed well it literally kicks $#%.
I can tell great care will have to be used when transporting as it is a bit fragile for professional use. But The sound is well worth the extra effort of carefulness especially considering also the very ease of it's light weight along with the sound quality. Thanks to all who have tried and reviewed this product.

------------------
The old Newb

Gary,
You did a beautiful job on the speaker platforms (based on my original design I described a few months ago.)
Absolutely professional looking.

Thanks for the kudos guys and gals. Of all the folks I've talked with that has purchased the Z-5500 system, all but 1 really enjoyed the sound quality. I've been using it a lot more on mid size jobs and my audiences are amazed at how crisp, clear and clean both the keyboard and vocals sound. One user said it best when he stated "The Z-5500 system is the best kept secret in the world of mucical entertainment. I was somewhat skeptical at first, especailly after reading some comments by skeptics on the Synthzone, but after hooking it up to the keyboard it took just two minutes to know this is the best bang for the buck anyone could ever ask for." He said it all.

Cheers,

Gary

Probably a dumb question, which I'm good at. Could you have small band use this as p.a.? Such as acoustic guitar, guitar/harp, bass. Keys, if it would handle all of this. Small room, maybe 50 people. Not super loud rock, just adequately loud. Whatever that means.

The maximum number of instruments I've fired through the system was two guitars (electric), a keyboard and two mics and had no problems at all. This was for an audience of about 50 people.

Gary

Well, more.

I did a gig last weekend with a trio that worked very well. Me on acoustic guitar, Gary on acoustic guitar and harp and John on fiddle. This place was a rowdy bar. It was 3,000 to 4,000 sq ft and about 50 people and they were very loud. Like loud talking. Hell-raisers. I was very nervous about this 2200 system with a trio, I tell ya, but it came through. We had it at about 60% to 75% on the 2200. We pulled it off and everyone liked the sound.

I did not like my vocals. Too dry. I just didn't think the sound was superb. It was okay. My Behringer UB1002 has no effects and I think I prefer something added to vocals. Although, this place had concrete floor and it's a metal building. But it just didn't sound great to me. Of course, all that volume was five feet behind me and the incessant yakking and shouting out front. Don't get me wrong, they loved us. It went great.

I want to add keyboard for some songs. I'm thinking of buying a z5500. I'd really like to have a Bose PAS but I can't afford that yet. But if it's needed, that's that. I'll just have to figure out a way to make it happen. But man, if that 5500 could work...

I'm wondering... if we were to try the 5500 and we had MORE volume, that's 5' behind us... is it going to work similar to the Bose? The speaker array serving as monitors. If I were to buy the 5500, I would rather assemble them on one pole like I have my 2200 satellites. Less stage clutter.

What I'm saying is I want it loud enough for the audience but it has to be tolerable for us on stage. Apparently, the Bose does this in spades. But we're talking about seven times the money.

I imagine you could stack all 5 satellites on a single pole, especially if you faced them in different directions. However, I sincerely do not believe you will get anywhere near the Bose PAS with volume and quality--but as you stated, the Z-5500 system is 7 times less expensive. I can tell you from first hand experience, the Z-5500 is considerably better sounding than the Z-2200 system, and it has a lot more headroom.

As for your vocals, why not purchase a small, Alesis 6 Channel mixer that has effects? You can pick one up for about $100, and those of us that have used them can vouch for the quality--they're excellent.

Good Luck,

Gary

Is there any reason NOT to mount all the 5500 satellites on one pole? Arranged in an arc. Heckuva lot less clutter.

As for the mixer, yep, gotta do something. I need more channels than six, though. Eight, at least, when I buy one.

Hey, are you going to sell ur mixer? What model is it, im in need of one.

Phil

Behringer UB1002. I doubt I'd sell it. Keep it as backup.

No reason other than the stereo separation sounds better when the speakers are farther apart. You could construct a sound colum that would house the all the speakers permanently, something with openings in various directions that would be similar to the Bose system's construction. And, if you were good at wiring, you could rig up a single plug at both ends that would facilitate a faster, easy connection to the sub. It can all be done, however, it does take time, and of course some funding.

Good Luck,

Gary

Gary, what I had envisioned is a platform on top of a stand and the platform would have the five (or is it four) satellites sitting on top. On an earlier thread, I even mentioned customizing this platform so you don't even see the separate speakers. A customized platform with the speakers inside. Thus, all satellites would be at the same level off the floor.

However, you bring another possibility. Putting the speakers inside a vertical column, like the Bose speakers are arranged. In a line array, each pointing at different angles to the audience.

Sound-wise, do you foresee a superior setup? (All the satellite sound radiating from the same place, say, five feet off the floor, versus at, say, 3.5', 4', 4.5', 5' off the floor (contained within the column)?

EDIT: I see you have two satellites on a pole, two poles. Then a speaker sitting on the woofer. Is that satellite different?

Your 5500 sub-woofer looks bigger than my 2200. Is it?

Lastly, is there any way to incorporate the 2200 system together with the 5500?

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 03-30-2005).]

Hi ,i have my 5500 speakers set up like garys and can exstend them to a hight 0f 6 feet 2 on each stand and set them where ever i want in directions i like, works fine for me ,people are amazed at the sound, one has to try different ways, BENNO

I have a Z2200 and Z5500. I use the Z5500 to take out with me. Two satellites and center speaker are on a "Manhasset" music stand,and two remaining satellites are on each side on two cut down regular stands. This is sort of a poor man's setup like Gary's. I find this works well,as I took Gary's suggestion,and used speaker wrap to tie all the wires into one main trunks,and leave them connected to the sub. The trunk breaks into two toward the end.I just disconnect the speakers,and coil the trunk up and lay it on the sub to carry out.

However,in a quest to make things even easier,I think a permanent enclosure might have merit. I am thinking the original surround sound design is not applicable to me. I am running stereo.Not only that,I am not sitting in the middle.At least in my case,left and right is all I need.

As far as combining the two systems is conscerned,I do it at home. My Z2200's are hooked up to my Audigy module.The green in is plugged into one of my outs on the module.I then take a line out of my rig,and plug it into a line in of the Audigy module,and I have ten speakers going. What a gas!

Bernie

One problem to solve in making an enclosure,would be a quick connect wiring harness of some kind that would handle five sets of wires. It is time consuming to wireup five speakers,and impossible if enclosed. There has to be a way of disconnecting the sub from the speakers that is quick and efficient.
Bernie

A pluggable terminal block should do it.Now for an enclosure.

Similive,

The speaker sitting atop the sub is the center speaker. As for stacking V/S putting all the speakers on a single platform at the same level, I don't know if there would be an advantage or not. This is something you'll just have experiment with.

And, as you can see, both the 2200 and 5500 can be used at the same time. That's one hell of a lot of speakers puttin out lots of sound.

Gary