its interesting to note people still say they refuse to use midi files, but thats exactly what you are doing everytime you play a chord on your arranger...they are ALL just short midi files...
in fact, play a midi file, stop all instruments apart from bass and drums, and then see how much you actually PLAY...with arrangers all the left hand really does is hold a static chord (lol, or a finger!!)




[This message has been edited by miden (edited 05-18-2007).]

No miden, they aren't they same thing, at least not to me.

SMF don't work for for MY style of playing and the type of gigs I do....I get more overall flexibility with styles.

Some people can get quite a bit of flexibility out of SMF, but I have never had any interest in using them.

Unless a player is doing actual two handed playing over a SMF, it smacks too much like karaoke to me.

Ian

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Common misconception...size and weight equal quality and performance. Don't be fooled.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-18-2007).]

I definitely agree.... If you are not using both hands, all the time, it IS karaoke....

The problem for me comes from having been a regular keyboard player for MUCH longer than I have been using arrangers, I have built a style up that I can only sum up as 'two right hands'. I spent a long time developing independence to the point that one hand is doing one (or sometimes two if possible) part, the other one is doing another one (or two!) also. Not just 'comp and lead' but comp and lead with either hand, or two leads, whatever the song and band needed. I NEVER jumped on the bass players part (he's getting payed, why double him? I've got other things to do!), and only played LH bass if the bassist was doing something else (had one that doubled a mean sax)....

Now I am coming to grips with playing the arranger mode more and more, my left hand just feels so useless, primarily tied up with inputting the chords. So it feels like back to 'comp and lead' one way only.

That is why i like using SMFs a bit more than some here do... It gives me an opportunity to play keyboards like I used to in bands. I am even busier and more directly in control of what gets heard (my SMFs are stripped down to the point where I have to play a LOT of parts!) than most of the time I play arranger (not so easy to do things one-handed), so I feel, strangely, MORE in charge of the music than when I am in arranger mode.

Add in the new Mark/Jump song position jumps you can now make in SMFs to re-arrange the structure on the fly, and it starts to feel VERY similar to arranger freedom, without the tyranny of tying down my left hand.

Also, it's one of the reasons I want the return of the Chord Sequencer, so I can stay with the freedom of arranger mode, and yet get back BOTH my hands after inputting the chords the first time around. This one feature kind of blurs the whole arranger/SMF picture. (Sorry I'm being tedious again, Ian, but at least is IS kind of 'on-topic', or at least how the topic has evolved! )

But so many different ways to do the same thing, at least we all can find equipment that makes our personal preferences possible.....

Hey, Diki, if being "tedious" will get you the chord sequencer, go for it, man.

I sent in several requests to Yamaha for it, and sent a few e-mail to the regional Roland rep, who I used to work with many moons ago when the E-70 was current...I believe the E-70 or one of the other E's at the time (perhaps the Pro-E) had a chord sequencer.

Hopefully, someone will recognize it's value and it will return in the near future.

Ian





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Common misconception...size and weight equal quality and performance. Don't be fooled.

Thanks, Ian... If being an irritant and tedious gets it back, it will be worth every single one of you I have pi$$ed off!

And when it does, you can all thank me later....

A bottle of single malt Orkney Isle Scotch will do just fine...!

Used to have a Yamaha Electone HX3 for home use, plus a physically smaller HS8 for gigging. Both great instruments in their day. I regularly gigged the HS8 alongside a couple of guitarists until arrangers started to catch up with it sound-wise. Then swapped to an "ironing-board" for the convenience & lack of bulk.

I still miss the way the bass pedals gave you the on-the-fly ease of playing false roots with any LH inversion you happen to fancy.

In many ways, my ideal instrument would be a modern arranger with fully integrated bass pedals. By that, I mean fully integrated in an electronic and operating system sense - not just physically. Pedal notes would always be treated as the lowest note of the chord, irrespective of actual pitch relative to whatever LH notes were being played. That way, the pedals would always have priority control over the actual bass line, whether being manually played, or being a style derived bass riff.

This is essentially how the old Yamaha Electones worked & it felt very natural and instinctive. It also removes the need for the "bass-follow" function as it is, in effect, automatically on or off on a note-by-note basis as needed, by virtue of instantly responding to whatever bass note you choose for the LH chord you are playing at the time.

Something like the electronic guts of a Korg PA1X, with a Roland G70 operating system & touch screen, Korg i3 front panel style control buttons & an integrated 20 note lighweight pedalboard is getting pretty close.......

The Yamaha D-Deck looks interesting, and is sort of heading in that direction, but I suspect it may be a bit low-end feature wise compared to most current top flight arrangers. It may also sound a bit "home-organ-polite" in tonal character for my tastes. Oh, and Yamahas always seem to have pitch bend wheels - which I hate, rather than a pitch/mod lever.

Its no good. Looks like I'll have to set up as an instrument manufacturer to get what I want!

[This message has been edited by MikeTV (edited 05-19-2007).]

I took up the organ in 1964 with an old Conn spinet. I upgraded to a Hammond Model "A", then to a B3.

I played organ alone at restaurants and bars until the late eighties, and bought a Roland D50. The pedals and left hand was the only rythm I had until I bought a free standing Rythm Ace. Customers thought it was fantastic,

I miss the Organ players that used to be around town. A B3 and drummer playing all the top 40 hits of the day, that was impressive and entertaining.

I started playing the organ when I was 8, 2 manuals and pedals and ended up with 3 manuals and pedals. I went through all of the LRAM grades theory and practical and then passed my teaching qualifications.
I've also played quite a few church organs which are fantastic, totally different from your Yamaha Electone models no automatic styles on there (I can just imagine putting a disco beat on in a church, it would be a laugh).

I love the synths and arrangers but I know when I get older I'll always be able to get back on an organ and never be out of work.
I wish the Wersi wasn't faulty when I purchased it a few months back, the sound was fantastic on there when it worked, but that's life, so it's back to the arrangers and digitial piano now

Hello MikeTV
Here are some details that may interest you http://www.yousendit.com/download/UW13N3RURndJMHMwTVE9PQ

The OAA option has every type of chording system used in other manufactures keyboards and organs, and then adds a lot more besides.

Some short demos can be found here http://www.wersi.net/html/tontrager.html

The UK contact is http://www.harmony-music.co.uk/

Bill