I'm finally biting the bullet and getting a full-blown sound system (I currently have been using a single Motion-Sound amp for gigs). One of my big questions is whether to go for powered or unpowered speakers. What are the pros/cons of each setup? Any brand/model recommendations are welcome as well.

There are pros and cons for each.
Powered speakers tend to be heavier because of the built in amp. Also you need to run a power cable to each speaker and a signal speaker.

Powered speakers are usually matched up very well with their internal amp so you are getting the best you can out of them.

with powered speakers you only need a passive mixers, and sometimes if a jiff you can plug directly into the speakers themselves without a mixer.

Non-powered takes a little more skill and patience.

they are lighter, come in more variations but you need to feed them power.
IT can be from a powered mixer or power amp, but now it's up to you to match the proper power levels do a little more eqing.

Generally when I set-up [erformers or bands I need a couple of questions answered first.

1. how many pieces
2. what type of music
3. how big a crowd
4. what size/type of venue
5. who's gonna carry the stuff
6. who's running the stuff
7. what kind of budget

if you'd like you can call me or email for more info

If only because of the weight, I'm probably partial to unpowered speakers. I'm usually a one-man show and schlepping my keyboard is enough exercise for me as it is. Plus the idea of not having to plug the speakers in seems very convenient. I obviously don't want to spend more than necessary but I'd rather pay for quality than save money and get mediocre sound and reliability. Could anyone give me a primer on how to match a powered mixer/amp with passive speakers? I know how more watts = more volume but that's about it. I'm clueless with regards to ohms, and then I also see how they mention something like "300 watt program/450 watt peak" - what does it all mean? Also, which brands have the best reputation? So far I've been hearing Mackie and Yamaha mostly. Thanks for the help everyone! By the way, I don't need some huge mixer with ten channels - at most I'd probably want it to be able to handle four instrument channels and two singers.

I favor powered speakers, I feel it leaves me with many options.

1-The amp is designed for the speaker.
2-I start with 2 JBL 10’ powered speakers.
3-I add a sub if I need more overall power.
Then the speakers go on stands. With the larger set up I use a Mackie non-powered mixer.
Handling 200 people is not a problem.
But as others have said – depends on the music you are playing.

As far as weight – I walk on the job with a speaker in each hand – they weigh 34 pounds each. I feel a good powered mixer weighs more than that.

My advantages -- I can change my set up to meet the need.
Small job one speaker no stand or mixer, I use what is in the keyboard.
I’m carrying a keyboard – keyboard stand – mic and stand – speaker – and laptop. Very little effort.

I add what I need to the PA system and to the price of the job for bigger venues.

This set up fits my personality. My friend uses a Mackie powered mixer 808 and two 15” Peavy cabinets. Also a great sound. A bit heavy for me.

As a guitar player I got a sound from 10” speakers that I could not get from 12” or 15” speakers. Not sure why, just was.

John C.

I am a dealer for Samson and Behringer,
check those sites out and give me a call.

I give synthzone discounts since you guys were my first customers.

888 374-6076

Frank

I use a Mackie 808s powered mixer and two C300 passive 2-way speakers. It's a great flexible system; I've played for 50-500 people with the same equipment. The mixer is the heaviest piece.

If I were replacing the rig I would look at the Peavey PR12 speakers because they are even lighter. A powered mixer worth its price will be heavy, so maybe I'd look at the powered Peavey 12's and get a nice mixer - still three pieces. http://www.peaveymag.net/productdetails-dealer-02205-prodid-2629.aspx

http://www.rocknrollercart.com/

http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1812&brandID=2
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1645&brandID=2

Frank sorry but I gotta be honest ...these two brands are on the bottom of my gear list & I wouldn't recommend them at all to anyone..... do an A/B test with some top brands like Mackie, EV, Yorkville, JBL, Barbetta, Bose, etc and see if you want to waste the money or go for a bit more and get a quality sound your audience deserves it.Thats just my opinion.

Bose L1 with one B1. Go for it ... It's well worth the investment. It's portable enough for a feeble oldster like me, sounds great, and the after-the-purchase support is unparalleled.
Ciao,
Jerry
Check out the 'Solo Acts' forum: http://bose.infopop.cc/eve

DNJ,

I just assumed there was a price point.

I personally use an Allen & Heath board.

When it comes to powered mixers and smaller speakers systems, until you truelly spend the big bucks there will be of course a small increase in sound quality.

Of course a $300 cabinet will not sound as good as a $500 cabinet, but all of this will also depend on where it is being used, how, what's feeding it also.

In my first post I did say one of my questions for a customer would be, what is your budget, of course it's easy to say I would get this or that, but if he can't afford it, then oh well.

I called Peavey to become a dealer and they said 10 grand for an opening order.

Not today for me anyway.

I also sell Alesis, RCF ( which is the mackie supplier for drivers )

oh yeah,

I use 4 Bose L1 double bass systems too.

I am also a believer in powered speakers, for versatility and quality as others have mentioned[matched amp to speaker]..I always use a non powered mixer with powered speakers and a powered sub woofer..

You can always adjust your set up for any room..Maybe one powered speaker, or a pair in stereo...add a sub woofer if you need the bottom[dance music]..If you blow a speaker you can rely on the other one to get you through the job, probably without any notable difference..You can use a powered speaker on the floor for good bass response and another in the air for coverage..There are just better applications and backup measures available with powered units..

Second concept..you never can go wrong with quality equipment..It is an investment...invest in quality that will give you a return...My equipment is still serving me twenty years later...and still competes with anything out there..

I'll second and third that!!! Nothing beats quality. Price and budget must be considerations, but quality has to be the final determiner.

I fourth that !!!!

You get what you pay for.

But also remember just because you have the best equipment does not make up for experience and talent.

You have to know how to use it.

A person with great talent can do wonders with any type of equipment.

A person with little expereince or talent can not make a great piece of equipment sing

For what I do (50 - 150), the Yamaha Stagepas 300 has enought power, bass, sound quality and built-in reverb ($400). They have a 500 watt model now too.

zuki

Hi John

Am wondering what you are using for a sub now, z2300 or z5500? Also, those JBL's are actually only 23 lbs rather than 34 lbs which is what the z5500 sub weighs and is the set up I use when I want the windows to rattle.

If I went to something larger and heavier I admit there is a temptation to get non- powered speakers to keep it light, but, with powered speakers if one isn't working right, you can finish the gig. If you are using non-powered speakers and a PA head, if the head goes, you are sunk unless you carry extra equipment, and to me that is extra work for nothing

Scott

After much research and considering the advice offered here, I think I'm going to go with the JBL Eon G2 15's. The Mackie 450's (same price) seem to get reports of lacking a good low end. Has anyone had good/bad experiences with either of these speakers? How do they compare? They are expensive at $700 a pop but I do care about quality and I see it as an investment. And then there are the stands, cases, cables, and the mixer of course (though I can get away with a fairly simple one for my needs).....this ain't gonna be cheap....

Marc do a good A/B with Your KB on both & I'm sure you'll choose the SRM450's don't be fooled....I love mine big time. If the 15" is needed go tot the SA series.
http://www.mackie.com/products/speakers/index.html



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-26-2007).]

So does the SRM450 have enough low end for a 400 person wedding in a large room with no subwoofer? That's really my question. Looking at the SA1521z - it seems great but it doesn't looks as durable as the SRM450 or the JBL Eon, and it's an extra $200 a pop - I'm not convinced. Of course, I haven't heard any of these in action.....

Read the literarture on the Mackie Line ....Do an A/B with YOUR gear at full volume and let your ears be your guide...

PS. My second recomendation would be the Yorkville line....
http://www.yorkville.com/

How the heck did you move from a Motion Sound to JBL Eon 15s? You state that you play for 50-150 people and the Eons would be more than enough for these audiences. For improved bass coverage I suggest an EV SxA120b powered sub. But I agree with Donny that the 450's would be my choice. I am partial to the Mackies (or even better, EV); the JBL do not seem to have the liveliness of the other speakers.

I'm trying to transition to larger gigs (i.e. weddings) and for this I need a more powerful setup. In addition, I'm been told by a more experienced performer that with pole-mounted speakers I will look more 'professional' than with my 'floor-mounted' Motion Sound. I could see it making a good monitor for my new setup.

So now I have to look at the Yorkvilles....how about the Behringer EUROLIVE B215A? It seems very popular and is significantly less pricey....too good to be true?

You answered your own question

I haven't heard the Behringers, but I wouldn't eliminate them because of the price point. Behringer makes many great products at low cost. I have three of their mixers and love 'em.
However, if you want powered speakers and don't want to get the Bose, I strongly recommend Barbettas. www.barbetta.com
They are light weight and sound GREAT.
DonM

Based on advice from both Don and Gary I bought the Barbetta 31c. I am happy with it, lightweight, plenty of power and fits real well on my rock n roller style transporter. Good for the 1 hour gigs because of the quick setup and breakdown time.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 04-26-2007).]

I have those Behringers in stock, and DNJ I have a meeting with Mackie next wed.

I have called Yorkville and Yamaha, and no one has ever called back

Frankie you wont go wrong with the mackies & keep trying Yorkville its a great line.....

Mark, My opinion--- I had the JBL 15 powered speaker, it was stronger than my JBL 10’s -- had more bottom/bass but I found it too harsh. After one year I had to get rid of it, no matter what I did it lacked the quality of it’s smaller brother. – That is my opinion, you need to listen yourself.

Another thought about the JBL10’, over the last five years they have held their price – the JBL15 has been offered for less at times. I am not sure that’s good reasoning.

100 to 150 people, no problem the 10’s–with my sub it does more than a good job. Like Fran said, the look of a speakers on stands on both sides of you does give a pro touch.

John C.

Scott,
I tried using my Z5500 with my set up – it was good. Then I used my JBL 10’s with the z5500 sub and that was great. But as you said the Z2300 sub is all I need on some of the senior jobs, it seems to balance more.

I am playing a fine restaurant this May – 50 people celebrating Dad’s 90th Birthday. My KN7000 and the Z2300 system is all I need to do a great job.

I have put the five smaller speakers on a “T” stand – the speakers are along the top – I have some lighting along the top where the speakers are. Getting daring –ha ha ha. I have rewired all the wires so I have a fast connect and disconnect. The five speaker wires are in a single wire holder keeping the appearance neat.

John C.

500 people?
Hmmm............one Bose tower will more than do the trick.

JBL eon15's are bass heavy, and the horns are too dark
Mackie 450's are balanced and clearer
Barbetta's are punchy and loud, but the high end is harsh
Bose is clear, efficient, but some miss that "thumpy" bass that hurts your ears.

Best advice, like Donny said .... try them all out with your OWN gear. That's teh only way to know for sure. As for your friends who said you need pole mounted speakers to look professional ... well, that's just not so. It may be the norm, or the vast majority, but please ... never go on the advice of someone unless thay are IN THE FIELD themselves. Sound is not judged by looks. I DO admit that looks are important - that's one bonus of the Bose setup - can hardly even see it on stage !

Marck,

Just in case the multitude of answers aren't enough, I'll add to the confusion by putting my 2 cents in.

I use a pair of ElectroVoice EV SXA360's http://electrovoice.com/download_document.php?doc=1413 . They are extremely well built speakers with the power to handle large areas. They are a little pricey but the sound is great.

They are more compact than my JBL EON 15's were and yet still pack more punch. When I put them together with my ElectroVoice EV SBA760 http://electrovoice.com/download_document.php?doc=1430 they really kick.

The sub has a built in crossover, but I use the one in my DBX DriveRack PA.

But if you're trying to stay lightweight, then just leave off the sub and you'll still get a lot of bass

Richard

I personally use the Bose L1 system, mainly they are extremely easy to transport, and it seems no matter where I play they always give me the same hi-fi sound.

My main complaint of the system is basically what UD said, they seem to not have that punch or in your face sound of horn driven systems.

I have 4 double bass systems for when I do full band set-ups. I had some sit-in musicians who are used to the over the top multiple speaker array for the dance club sound. They complained saying " the sound is not loud enough " . the funny part was that this person from the band was the only complaint, we were constantly getting praises from people saying, " wow the music sounded fantastic, and after 4 hours I don't have a headache and I was still able to carry on a conversation at my table. you guys were a pleasure, never once did we have to ask you to lower the volume."

this is Frank math

it only takes 1 valid complaint to cancel 10 valid praises

I much appreciate all the great advice everyone has given. After much hemming and hawing I think I'm going to go with the Mackie SRM450's.

Good Choice & Good Luck !!

Enjoy

Just to throw in a monkey wrench - today I was speaking with another gigging musician who has used the Mackie 450's and while he loves the sound, he reported reliability issues possibly related to these speakers now being made in China as opposed to Italy. He mentioned that he's looking into speakers from FBT - has anyone had experience with this brand of powered/active speakers?

To those who have recommended Yorkville - in particular are you referring to the NX55p? They seem to be rather hard to find, but from the little I could gather they are highly recommended. Anyone tried these? Thanks.

Marc I use the nx 520's..they are great ..The nx55 replaced the nx520's..They improved the low end as well as the full range..Go for the NX 55's..

Here is the model I use that the NX55 replaced..
http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?cat=31&type=71&id=129

It's official - I have placed an order with a local music shop for two NX55p's. For the price ($650 each) it seems to be the best choice out there for my one-man-band gigging needs. It is supposed to have excellent sound, great bass response for a 12" speaker, good build quality, it can get rather loud, and it is one of the lighter units in its class. For really small jobs (such as those in private homes) I may just use my Motion Sound; at large gigs it will probably find use as a monitor for myself and any singers. Once again, thanks everyone for all the help.

Marc, I think you are going to like the 55's..I think in small rooms you can still use the Yorkville's [1 or a pair]..They sound just as clear at softer volume levels..The one thing I wished my 520's had was a lower bass response[I use a sub woofer because we do dance music]...They answered the bell with the 55's[45 low frequency]..Even the great Mackie 450 doesn't go there....

You did good

Good luck Marc you made a fine choice.....the Yorkies will kick butt for sure!!

Fave Fun

UPDATE:

I received the NX55p's yesterday. I have not yet had the opportunity to try them out at anything more than a very low volume, but here are my initial observations:

1) These are BIG mommas. I don't think they are bigger than typical comparable speakers, but still, they are bigger than I expected. Not that that is a problem, it was just surprising. The boxes were huge and I figured that there must be quite a bit of styrofoam and packing material, but there wasn't all that much - just enough bubble wrap to cover it well.

2) While they are considered relatively lightweight, they are still pretty darn heavy.

3) They seem very well-built and there looks to be good attention to quality by Yorkville.

4) Even at the low levels I was testing it out, this speakers has an amazing bass response - I feel very confident using the two speakers without a subwoofer. I may even need to cut some of the low EQ (around 60-100 hz) depending on the application. Luckily I can do that rather precisely with the PSR-3000's built-in master EQ, not to mention any EQ control on a mixer I will be getting.

That's it for now.