I have played KORG PA-1X, PA 80, YAMAHA TYROS, ROLAND G-70 in some local Music stores. Unfortunately I never have enough time to test these workstations. So I need help from an experienced arranger-keyboarder/musician who has tested these arranger workstations more thoroughly. My first impression: Roland G-70 has the most natural and warm sounds, accordions and piano in particular. Then comes the PA 80, then the PA-1X and the Tyros. Regarding styles, the best is KORG PA-1X, then the TYROS, then PA 80, and the last is ROLAND G-70. Styles and sounds (and the possibility to import new sounds / samples) are the most important criteria for me for buying an arranger keyboard. Thats why my top favourite is now the KORG PA 1X, because of its good styles and the good (many only average) sounds. But I dont like the touch screen of the PA 1X. View not sharp enough, to small and I think also of bad quality (some PA 1X owners already reported problems with some menu-buttons). I also think that touch screens are too sensitive and that they stop working properly after a while, particularly if you use the keyboard as a prof. live musician.
General questions: Who has tested these arranger workstations and could give me more advice or recommendations so as to help me make a decision for/against the PA 1X.
Specific questions: Is the PA 1X touch screen functioning well / reliable ? Is it better to have a ordinary screen with buttons or is a touch screen better for live use ?
The PA-80 has a similar sound-engine like tha PA-1X. In the PA-1X manual they say that it is possible to import PA-80 styles/sounds in the PA-1X. Is it also possible to import sounds/styles of the PA-1X in the PA-80 ? If this would be possible it may be more advisable to buy a PA-80 instead. Is there any PA-80 user out there, who has managed to use PA-1X styles on his PA-80 successfully ?
The PA-80 has no sliders for spontaneous sound/style-mixes like the PA-1X. Is it possible to change the volume of a particular track quickly in a live concert with the help of the buttons next to the screen of the PA-80. For example: If I am playing a particular style, with a piano-string combination sound, can I manipulate the volume of the strings immediately, while I am playing live ? Or do I have to open many submenus ? I never mangaged to do that when I tested the PA-80 in music shops in the past. And now they dont have a demo-model any more. You only can order them but not test them any more. So please give me this info.
Please also give me your opinion on the ROLAND G-70 styles. The Tyros also has got some good sounds, especially the demos on the yamaha-homepage are great. But after having played on the Tyros I quickly got bored with the sounds. Particularly because of the fact that you will never be able to import new sounds I cant decide to buy TYROS, although it is the easiest to handle, and although it has the best design / screen quality.
Does anybody know if YAMAHA is going to present a new professional arranger keyboard with sampling options (and may be a better keyboard) at the Frankfurt MUSIK FAIR in April ?
Many thanks in advance for your help.

Well, I have only heard the Tyros live, the rest I've heard on sound samples online. But believe me, my ears are really sensitive to noise!

In order to get really close to the most basic sounds today like piano, organ, electric piano, bass, drums and accoustic guitars, you need dedicated keyboards. What I have realised is that different manufacturers are experts on different sounds and the difference is huge!

Yamaha

No manufacturer today can compete with the piano sounds of Yamaha products. Yamaha makes the best sounding accoustic and electric pianos available today. Period.
The best available synth/keyboard accoustic pianos can be found in:

Yamaha P series (90, 120, 150, 250)
Yamaha PLG150 expansion card
Yamaha S-90

Best buy: Yamaha P90. It has extremely good accoustic piano sounds at an affordable price.

The best available synth/keyboard electric pianos can be found in:

Yamaha Tyros

No keyboard/synth can compete with Yamaha Tyros when it comes to electric paino sounds. They are many and they are great!


Roland

I can sum up Roland with two words: pads, organs. No keyboard manufacturer is as good as Roland in making warm and powerful pad sounds and rich organs. These are the best sounding keyboards/synths with pad and organ sounds:

Roland JV series
Roland XP series
Roland G-70

Best buy: Roland G-70. JV and XP sereis tend to have better pads than organs but the G-70 has both great pads and great organs! I think this is due to their knowledge earned with the VK series organs. It is expensive but I think Roland took a huge step forward with this arranger keyboard in particular with its organs.

Korg

Over the years Korg has improved the sound of their keyboards very much. The PA-1X has very high quality sounds that are valuable in any studio today, but Korg has always been the best manufacturer at creating sounds that don't simulate the real thing, except for two sound types: bass and drums. The Korg PA-1X has rich sounding bass and drum sounds. So Korg is best manufacturer of synth, bass and drum sounds.

Best buy: Korg PA-1X. I think the Korg PA-1X is the best sounding Korg keyboard/synth so far.

Kurzweil

This is a manfucaturer that I think does all the different sounds good overall. It is great in a studio when you cannot find the sound you are looking for in the Yamaha, Korg and the Roland keyboards. It is something between a Yamaha and a Korg. It reminds me of Yamaha in the piano sounds and Korg in the synth sounds. It is very useful in a studio together with Korg in making modern digital music.

Best buy: Kurzweil K2661. It sums up all that Kurzweil has been good at in the latest years.

I can understand that you think the Tyros has difficulties in competing with the Korg PA-1X and the Roland G-70. I have a Yamaha Tyros and I am totally in love with it! That's because I love electric piano sounds!
I also think the rest of its sounds are really good! However, Roland G-70 has better organ and pads and the Korg PA-1X has better bass sounds in particular. But when it comes to rich accoustic piano sounds you don't find it in any of these keyboards, you need either the Yamaha P series or the Yamaha S series.

If I would have money to spend in some keyboards I would buy the Yamaha S-90 and equip it with the great PLG150AP expansion board to get the best available piano sounds. I would also buy the Roland G-70 for the organs and the Kurzweil for the rest.
The reason why I would not choose to go with the Korg PA-1X is because the combination of these three keyboards can do the bass and drums equally good as the Korg PA-1X keyboard.

Best regards,
YamahaAndy

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-12-2005).]

When speaking sounds, it is very subjective. For testing the quality, we need good linear speakers. I am fan of piano acoustic. S90 lacks dynamic at a middle range and decay resonance after key off. RD700SX is fantastic for piano sounding with 4 layers of sample for each key. Effect for Piano has a quite good tuning to simulate the key off resonance.
Ears are very sensitive on dynamic and the quality of sounds is subjective subjet when we talk about the color. We love or we do not love. I have a collection of sounds of piano on my XV88 + SRRX02 and now SXR11! RD700SX may be is my next stage piano.

bbc is right. Sounds are very subjective. It is hard to find that (one) keyboard that excels in all sound categories. They all have their strong and weak points when it comes to sounds. Even the mighty Kurzweils are subject to this as well. Kurzweil may be a good workstation, but they always followed behind with polyphony compared to other makers.

Posted by YamahaAndy:
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No manufacturer today can compete with the piano sounds of Yamaha products. Yamaha makes the best sounding accoustic and electric pianos available today. Period.
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I don't agree with this statement. I'll take a Steinway or Bosendorpher (if I spelled that right) over a Yamaha any day, and when it comes to best (synth/digital related piano sound), I'd take a Kurzweil (hands down) and use a Yamaha P series or S-90 as a stand to hold my Kurzweil

Squeak

Sound isn't the only consideration unfortunately. Nobody seems to know what the status of Kurzweil is currently since Young-Chang went bankrupt last year. Last I heard Kurzweil was the property of the courts of South Korea. And I suspect the S. Korean court system has pretty poor tech support, but it couldn't be much worse than Roland's.

As I mentioned in a prior post...Samick owns Kurzweil, including Young Chang..

Imo it really depends on the music you make. In my studio I have a PA80, Tyros, Yamaha P120s, Young Chang Acoustic (Which I dearly love, Hammond Xk3, Yamaha DTexpress drums, Various Roland Samplers and Roland Juno 106 to name a few. Depending on the song I am recording I may use any one of these instuments but more and more I will probably just as often use one of my sample libraries such as EWQLSO, Real Guitar acoustic samples or any number of others because they are so incredibly good. If you can't hardly see a feature film anymore, which are recorded at 196k, without hearing these phenomenmal sample libraries, I do not see it as being debatable any longer. There is just no way that an instument like Tyros, as good as it is, but with about 96mb of sample menory for over 1100 samples is going to be sonically on the same level as something like Real Guitar which uses over 259mb for just 1 Stereo guitar sample. Just my ears opinion. The major mfgrs need to get with it and give us open architecture with style engines so that we can each procure our own favorite sample libraries of our choice. Then it will truly be "your" insturment. Whowever does this first and or best will win. I wlii support them and chunk my other stuff.

Danny

[This message has been edited by pianodano (edited 03-13-2005).]

[This message has been edited by pianodano (edited 03-13-2005).]

Pianodano, I totally agree. The value of libraries such as EWQLSO is incredible comparing with keyboards like Tyros. Tyros is good for what it does, but put in a greater context where you want more sounds and more quality it is really easy to choose something like EWQLSO. Pianodano, when it comes to great electric pianos, have you find any better than those in the Tyros? I have NI Elektrik Piano that I haven't yet been able to play through a nice audio interface. However I'm looking forward to sound check that package!

Best regards,
YamahaAndy

YamahaAndy,

Well, since you ask, I kick myself every time I even remember that I sold my Rhodes about 20 years ago. Tyros really is pretty good especially the phase piano, I think. I was hoping to get the NI Elecrik this month. Sure would like to get a report from you when you can evaluate it. I believe it also has a Wurlizer sample. No ?

Regards,

Danny

I am with those who are advocating the latest software based systems including large sample libraries and virtual instruments, etc. (VSL, EWQLO, Scarbee, GPO, Bardstown, Hunter's Strings, VRSound, B4, RealGuitar, etc.). I have been using these or similar virtual instruments for years. All I can say is the proof is in the pudding. The big guys (move/screen writers, composers) use them all the time. I know I will not go back to hardware based solutions given the difference in overall quality even with some of the control surface sacrifices.

I have no trouble using my software based system for live performances (search flr2003 & flr2004). It all sounds so good!!! We live in interesting times.

http://www.rolandkeyboardclub.com/v/prod_detail.php?id=209&selected=3&pagina=1

Listen to the supertone blow alto

Sounds may be a subject of taste, but you can always compare with the original, non-altered sound. And I mean this:
When I try to imagine the sound of a saxophone, I don't mean the specific sound of Charlie Parker, Coltrane or whoever.
Same for every other instrument.
So, when we put our taste aside (and yes, that means you have to forget what you own, and admit that even your precious instrument has some shortcomings) cause no keyboard or synth in the world combines the best of everything. And what's said about Yamaha, Roland and Korg is close to the truth. I own all tree. Because I don't like to make compromises. So I took a P90 for the piano sound & feel, a VR760 for Hammond and rhodes, and a Korg for good woodwinds, strings & basses. And even with this gear, I can nag about not having a nordlead for the fat analog sounds, or an etherwave to show some entertainment while playing live. So basicaly, all we can do is to play the best we can on the gear we own. And try to like what we hear.