Just wondering how many have used this feature in some way.....I seldom have the need for it....& when I do I use EMC styleworks to convert. opinions?

Hi Donny,
find it handy for creating Intro's & Endings from a midifile.
I don't try & create variations & fills from song based midifiles.

Used to save my styles as midifiles & then use midi to style function if EMC really messed up a conversion.

best wishes
Rikki

I also use EMC in those must have Style situations then edit it a bit to suit my needs........but not too much. There's too many styles out there that can be adapted for use with any song.

take care

Most midi to style converters require too much work for the average arranger user...most would prefer to download/buy the styles for a particular song already completed.

EMC is okay, but still requires a lot of editing...rather daunting for a many users.

I like the Style Creator in my Yamaha, especially the Assembly section where you can import parts from one style into another...I'm sure Roland has a similar function.

I'd rather a use a style I created/assembled myself...gives my music a personal touch.

Ian

Well there where another problem with arrangers lie Ian....but the consumer is charged for these unused features......while you on the horn with Yamaha try telling them to simplify the Style conversion editing process so that the average player can easily use it.....otherwise take it away and add features that users ask for that they dont have now.

Donny,

Yamaha do not have on board midi to style converters.

Yamaha's Style Creator is actually pretty easy to use...I have taught many clients how to make or edit a style, but most prefer the styles already done for them.

I was mostly referring to EMC Styleworks.

ALL brands of arrangers suffer from having features that aren't used by the average buyer.

I have addressed this issue with Yamaha many times, but I am only a very small spoke in a VERY big wheel.

All manufactures use these "features" as a marketing ploy...people then feel they are getting a lot for their money, even though they'll never use them.

Ian

Or in reverse Ian in reality they are getting less
Ive been playing arrangers from day one & even way back then I wanted things or thought some things are useless.......
seems once a KB is released that's it.....
the main thing that drives them is relinquished....instead these manufacturers should be making instructional videos so players can learn all about them & constantly releasing NEW STYLE Libraries in different categories that work with little editing for their arrangers. Seems like in some ways we're going backwards

Donny,

Each time a new model is released, I always say,"How are they going to top this?"

And....they usually do.

I know, with Yamaha, it was Mega Voices, then it was SA voices, and goodness knows what's on the way with T3.

Instructional videos are, no doubt, an excellent idea, although there's no substitute for another person actually showing you EXACTLY the things you need to know.

Ian

But this being something that few Yamaha users use, surely it should be dropped, as being past the understanding of the average (moron) arranger user? (As you posted in the 'What will we be using in ten years? thread)'

Or is it only features that YOU use that you feel that Yamaha should keep...?

You see where this could lead? Maybe Yamaha might take you seriously (however unlikely that might seem!) and start dropping features YOU use, if not many of your clients. THEN, what will you do..? Use a Roland?

Fortunately, most arranger manufacturers do not design arrangers for morons. They just try to make sure that the advanced features do not prevent the morons from using them. And provide you with a (hopefully) handsome living as you explain and demonstrate these more advanced capabilities to those that can't figure them out for themselves.

If Yamaha took you seriously, and provided NO advanced features (that few use), what would happen to your gig? Would you be reduced to teaching how to get a min 7th chord using One Note Fingering system (oh, that's right, you need three fingers for that one!).... Definitely not as much fun as showing them how you use the Style Creator to mix and match styles, no matter HOW few will ever go home and use it!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-13-2007).]

Good grief Diki!

You are so SERIOUS and I find it so amusing.

Thank you for the chuckle.

I really don't see how your response has anything to do with my post, but if you want to yadda yadda that's fine, buddy.

We do have something in common, you know, my friend...we both play home keyboards for a living...isn't that marvellous?

Ian

LOL.... actually, you play a 'home' keyboard. I play a 'pro' one! (at least, that's how MY manufacturer describes it!)

But seriously....

Having lost one of my most essential workflow features to idiot 'market research' that decided not enough morons used this feature, I tend to be a bit more wary of the idea that arrangers SHOULD be optimized for the lowest common denominator. Hence my lack of humor about this...!

In fact, I think that Yamaha has one of the most 'pro', advanced OS's out there, with MANY features that I can only dream about (or whine futilely at Roland about!). Multiple drum tracks, synchronized arranger and SMF players, arranger based lyrics displays, break/fills rather than break/mutes, multi-pads, the list goes on...

But, as I've said before, sadly Roland use a 'home' OS in a 'pro' form factor and live sound, and Yamaha use a 'pro' OS on arrangers with 'home' form factor and sound. It a mixed up, topsy-turvy world we live in!

Instructional video DVDs easy & advanced SHOULD BE MANDATORY included with all KB Purchases...let these manufacturers spend some of the gazillions on quality DVds to HELP players ....but why should they? then people would learn the unit well enough to keep it longer and not buy the next greatest rehashed toy they produce....there's always an underlying reason ..........& most times its about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

...and yet, knowing that.........



chas

MY arranger manufacturer likes to play around with the word "pro" as well, but I KNOW what I play, and I accept it as a HOME keyboard.

If it has "easy play chords", "one touch settings" and "auto-accompaniment" then it's a HOME keyboard.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.

This flagrant use of the word "pro" reminds me of a car analogy... manufacturers used to put stripes, fake hood scoops, and a "GT" badge on a wheezy family sedan and call it a "Gran Turismo".

Reeks of Walter Mitty...some even believed it.

Oh well, back to my S900 and my dreams of fame and fortune.
Ian

You beat me to that one, chas!

gee I didnt know we had so many music experts around here ? must have missed that one somewhere along the line.btw chas when was the last tune you posted here on sz I think I missed that also?

Due to the weight and 'live-ness' of the sound, I have to take Roland seriously when they slap the 'pro' monicker on the G70. The 76 keys (apparently, Yamaha know full well no 'home user' ever wants that!) alone must make it a 'pro' only piece of kit...!

Yamaha's lone foray into the 'pro' arranger field was such a disaster they seem to be blind to the fact that other manufacturers ARE making these things. And staying in business, as hard as that is to do, nowadays. I just feel sad that, despite having a very 'pro' OS (considerably more sophisticated than what 99% of arranger players must surely use - how many PSR players do you know that intermix arranger play and SMFs at the same time?!), they don't case it in something that matches their workstation line.

And don't let anyone kid you... probably as few workstation users are full time pros as arranger users! Yet they receive the full on treatment, no cut corners in build quality or sound. Only arranger users get that raw deal...

Why is that?

It's a duck, Diki, don't be fooled by the
nomenclature and please don't quack up at my reply.

The G70 is a very nice 76-note HOME arranger nevertheless...I will give you that.

The fact that it's so heavy should tell you it wasn't meant to be moved...stays on the nest.

The fact that it has "easy play chords" and "one touch setting" should also tell you it has webbed feet.

No, my dear boy, face it...it's a duck...a nice duck, but a duck for sure.

Isn't that just ducky.

Ian

Mmmmmm...that's a strange statement, Donny.

Ian




[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-13-2007).]

Don't worry Ian. That's the standard "lash back" line whenever they feel offended, or more accurately, recognize the face in the mirror. Obviously, my posting or not posting a tune has absolutely nothing to do with anything is this post. Maybe the anesthesia hasn't worn off yet.

Donny (or "King" if you prefer), I wasn't attacking you; I think most of us thought it amusing that you, of all people, would be preaching against the policy of buying new keyboards (and subsequently proclaiming them the 'greatest ever') what seems like, every few months. Sorry if you can't see the irony (and hypocrisy) in this. Maybe some of you "dear friends" can explain it to you. Get well soon.

chas

How can it be a 'home' keyboard, if 'home' keyboards are not SUPPOSED to have 76 keys?

Don't tell me that Yamaha are deliberately ignoring a legitimate market? After all, they are the experts on what is, and isn't a 'home' keyboard...

Actually, I agree with you, Ian... The G70 IS a 'home keyboard' with all the easy play features you could ask for. But dressed up in a 'pro' shell.

As opposed to the S900, which I think is a 'pro' keyboard, dressed up in a 'home' shell (and throw in the easy play features for free!)...

But if you are hearing ducks quack, it probably just means it is time for the annual migration south, to warm and sunny climes (like mine!) Getting chilly up there, yet?

Come on down some time, we'll go duck hunting!

Diki...it's already colder than a mother-in-law's kiss here on Cape Breton Island...frost last night.

Let's see...you said, "The G70 IS a 'home keyboard' with all the easy play features you could ask for. But dressed up in a 'pro' shell."

Interesting....sorta like a duck dressed up like an eagle.

You quack me up.

Ian

Careful Ian, this could be Dick Cheney in disguise.

chas

Better than a chicken dressed as a hawk...

Don't worry Chas...I'm sure the board of mental health has banned our buddy Diki from having anything dangerous...except perhaps the G70 which can cause a wonderful racket when dropped from a great height.

Rumor has it that the last time he went duck hunting, he didn't get any...wasn't throwing the dog high enough.

Ruff one, wasn't it?

Ian...clucking on a stage near you someday.

Hey Guys,
what happened to the original thread?? haa haa

Maybe they should sell 2 versions of a keyboard, one with all the style editing / creation features one could imagine, the other at reduced cost, with just the ability to load & tweak volumes & sounds or user styles.
Be interesting to see what people choose.

I personally wouldn't buy a keyboard that didn't have the ability to create a user style in some manner shape or form.

How many people use the Style Assembly function in PSr's (that Ian mentioned) or the pattern copy function in the Ketron etc etc. One can come up with a quite proffessional sounding style by using these functions. All that's happening is a mix & matching of existing style tracks.

best wishes
Rikki

I still use my Pa80 and use it's MIDI-style converter (PC based). I mostly create and play song based and other custom styles and won't most probably play arrangers if that's not possible. Big user style area at that time was one of the main reasons I bought Pa80 and kept it even when I disliked some OS behavior compare to Yamahas.

Shiral

[This message has been edited by shiral (edited 10-15-2007).]

Hi Shiral,
the PA800 now has that function built in. I think it works the same way as the software version ie 1 chord variation at a time ??
(Unless I downloaded a wrong program).

The pads is what drew my attention & all the onboard style & pad editing functions of the PA800.

Someone mentioned the pads weren't all that brilliant on the PA80?? maybe they've been upgraded on the PA800.

Hi rikkisbears,

Thanks for the info. The software version works the same way. I could probably prefer the software version since I edit the MIDI files in XGWorks and/or Cakewalk while the files are on the computer.

Yes, pads on PA80 are dull. You cannot assign sequences. It's good to know they have been upgraded. The harmonizer is very bad too. I bought TCH VoiceWorks later. Compared to ~ $650 that I paid for that, PA80's board is not worth just $50 though they charged me ~ $250.

At some point I'll have to upgrade my keyboard, but at the moment I cannot afford it given other priorities. Overall I like Korg sounds better, but Yamaha SA and Mega voices have made me reconsider which way to go though.

Shiral

Hi Shiral,
actually it has an import/export smf function, so the pad can be imported and exported as a midifile into a sequencer for editing or event list edited in the keyboard itself.

I'm starting to think they may have included a whole heap of new functions. Unfortunately I've never seen the PA80.

best wishes
rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shiral:
[B]Hi rikkisbears,

Thanks for the info. The software version works the same way. I could probably prefer the software version since I edit the MIDI files in XGWorks and/or Cakewalk while the files are on the computer.