The last couple of threads have whet my appetite for redesigning the next generation of arrangers. As clearly and plainly as I can, I will describe what I want. Please do the same.

1. Instead of hassling with softsynths and PCs, make an arranger that accepts soundfonts, much like samples.
2. Create a new style creation interface that encourages me to write my own styles.
3. Integrate something like the Karma technology into style creation and control.
4. Always offer a 76-key version of a mid to top level arranger.
5. Make the internal software so that it can be displayed on a CRT or interfaced into a PC/Mac.
6. Allow for optional memory upgrades.
7. Software upgrades.


That's a start, and it's not earth shattering.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 03-24-2005).]

in this month's Keyboard magazine (April 2005) there is an article on "The Making of the Korg OASYS"... it's a fascinating read. One engineer made a comment that is worth bringing up here (from Pg 16):

"When I was at Ensoniq we'd bring store guys into a mock product planning session and ask them to design their dream synth... the results always ends up costing out at around $10,000. Cause they want everything."

So maybe it's time we answered a question when we make our "dream arranger" wishlist: how much are we willing to pay for it?

My current dream arranger would be a portable version of the Yamaha CVP-309 home arranger. It has a MSRP of $13k and the street price is the infamous WTMWB (whatever the market will bear) but I hear that $8500 street is about norm. That's in a fine finished grand-piano-style case so I figure $6500 MSRP and $5K street to be fair for a portable version of the CVP-309. 76-note keyboard of course but a weighted 88 option would also be nice. I'd call it the "PSR-309 Pro".

So what kinda bread are you guys willing to part with for your dream arranger?

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 03-24-2005).]

Good question. I think $3000 is about my limit for an arranger keyboard. Would I pay more? Maybe, but not too much unless I felt it would absolutely be my last keyboard.

With that in mind, I want a Kurzweil PC88 OS(actually 76) with a Karma-based Roland arranger.

1) XG lite voices only installed.
2) No styles installed, this should lower the price right?
3) 76 note keyboard would be nice. (Hey, Casio and Roland can do it)
4) USB port.
5) Onboard amplifier/speakers.
6) Line output jacks.
7) Full size keys (Casio and Roland can do it)
8) Accepts soundfonts (good idea Cassp)
9) Yamaha sells their sweet voices soundfonts, a la carte for this new arranger.
10) No missing buttons.
Since I have to buy the voices, a la carte, I would be willing to pay $500US. $800US including the voices.
Another option is to supply the PC software with the arranger for sequencing and style creation. The software does not have to be in the arranger. Not everyone will like this feature.
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 03-24-2005).]

Here's a thought - what current arranger features could you easily live without? in favor of something else?


I could easily live with out half of the resident voices - way too many choices now. Maybe this would be where soundfonts would be helpful. I need physical drawbars that could maybe have multiple functions. The operating systems need major overhauls, IMO.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 03-24-2005).]

I do think the G70 is everything you want and more, it is selling at 3500 currently though so its slightly over your limit. Just wait a little while and im sure it will drop, maybe up to 500.

Phil

If not, heres my favorite and IMO the coolest thing ever and priced very well is the Open labs neko, it will do EVERYTHING and then some, its a full blown computer and a keyboard in one, priced at 2300, its nothing short of amazing.http://www.openlabs.com/products/product_info-nekoLE.htm

Phil

[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 03-24-2005).]

Two good posts, Phil. I lust after the G70 from afar - mainly because I love my VR760. What I've seen in pictures and read in print truly attracts me, even at $3500. But as I've said in other posts - no see, no play, no buy. Roland is making this purchase very difficult for me.

As far as the Open Labs keyboard is concerned, I know and have seen even less.

I totally agree with everything that you stated!!! Although I could do with out number 5.
For me there is just one more very important thing or things.
SIZE WEIGHT PORTABILITY.

Nothing more than 30lbs. If they can not deliver that, then I will gladly like them to go the module way.

Dear Genesys;

Your weight target will never happen with your list.The only top model arranger that meets that target is the tyros and its 61 keys. Every other KB is in the 40-50 lbs range.

PS-Genesys--start lifting weights!!!

Regards;
BN

I could live without the amplifier/speakers.
The Open Labs Neko is NOT an arranger.
I would think that Yamaha has been thinking along these lines and purchased Steinberg to postion themselves. If hardware is the biggest cost to the mfgs., then going modular would be in their best profit interest as well. We will soon see.
Starkeeper

Good topic. My answer is still the same as before. For those that don't like windows apps ( including me to a point in a dedicated hardware board ), a modular setup so that you can buy whatever options that you like when you order the board.

I don't want to pay an exoribitant amount either, so I'd leave of what I don't need.

I don't need my arranger to have sampling, but I would like it to be able to access vst effects and instruments from within. I don't need it to access windows based progrms though, so I don't think I need a "neko" type system, but I would like to be able to purchase modules made by the manufacturer to give me that "karma" effect.

I don't really need it to have an internal sequencer either for that matter, except of course for the actual pattern sequencer that plays the styles. A playback sequencer would be ok, but I never use an arranger's sequencer for live play anyway, since I already have a laptop with more sophisticated sequencers than any kb has.
I don't need a harmonizer either.

A 76 key option.

Your #5 cassp.. I think an Mlan system would cover that.

I too could live without many of the voices... I'd like some good quality staples for easy access, but after that ..

This is where Vst would be big for me. A module version of an XLutop chainer type program is all I would need.

AJ

I think that keyboard manufacturers are Conscious of the weight factor. That’s probably why the Tyros is the weight it is. Even workstations are looking at being lighter. The Roland Fantum x7 (76 keys) is 37LBS and the new Fusion 61 keys is supposed to be 30LBS.

That’s why I was surprised about the weight of the Roland G70.

To me the improvements I want are more software based so I don’t see why that should affect the weight.

It is not just the physical ability to carry the keyboard but to travel with it on a common carrier. And it just is not necessary to carry something heavy if it can be avoided.

Dear Genesys;

My worry is that like the tyros, and the Alesis, that manufuacturers switch to plastics in construction. This makes me concerned about durability. I believe that the extra weight is due to the metal cases & extra keys on the pa1x & G-70. I myself would prefer a metal case , and semi-weighted keys. I would accept the extra 10-15lbs for these concessions. How many times have we heard on this forum that the tyros look and feel is cheap ( i.e. doesn't live up to the expectation of a "top model arranger")

Below is the explanation of extra weight

Tyros= 61 smaller then normal keys, pastic body( non-weighted keys)
Alesis 6D= 61 keys, plastic body 30.4 lbs

G-70 & Pa1x= 76 keys + semi wieghted, metal cases.

Regards;
BN