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#162397 - 07/13/07 09:21 AM Tyros 2 help, please
Swissman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Moita, Portugal
Hi to all,
I am not sure if this is a problem of my Tyros 2 or merely a different approach from the Roland keyboards, but other Yamaha owners could help me on this issue for sure.

I use the registrations extensively, like I do with user programmes on my G-70. However, on my G-70, when I change from one user programme to another, the sound on the right hand will not be changed until I release the keys and press them again (which provides a perfect transition while the fills are running). On the other hand, when I change from one registration to another on the Tyros 2, the sound on the right hand changes dramatically and the transition from different tones sounds terrible. Sometimes, I have to release completely the keys from my right hand before I can select another registration (this is especially evident when changing from strings to brass sounds). I have noticed the chance of calling the OTS only at the next bar, but this doesnít works with registrations and sometimes one bar is not enough.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Carlos

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#162398 - 07/13/07 12:45 PM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
This is a feature common also to other Yamaha Synths (like the Motif) and has been debated in other fora comparing the Motif with the Fantom.
My personal solution with this issue (I too own a Tyros 2 and a G-70) is to stop playing the first sound at an appropriate time before the change in registration to avoid the "tail-cut" effect or (if I foresee a change of registration at mid-song) to avoid the use of sounds that have a long release time, like swirling pads.
Another workaround could be to use OTS instead of registration: using different OTS with the same style apparently reduces this annoying effect.
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#162399 - 07/14/07 12:23 PM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
Swissman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Moita, Portugal
Thanks for your answer (apparently, Tyros2 owners are decreasing here as only you could provide me an answer...)

If this is the case, I am sure I will use more my G70 and less my Tyros 2 as I consider this feature decreases the playing pleasure (my main reason for buying keyboards) and I can't imagine how this can be solved by the live/pros performers.

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#162400 - 07/15/07 03:34 AM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
jwyvern Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 365
Hi Swissman,
There are other Ty2 owners around. Maybe they agree there's a problem but don't have a 100% technical solution! The more complex the change is from the existing to a new registration the worse it can get. Try going from full keyboard piano & layered strings to split KB solo instrument for instance.
The only way seems to be to avoid known "bad" combinations or at least minimise the effects by choice of voice or anticipate by creating momentary voices off for the change. In the latter case don't forget the sustain pedal and any left hand voice with left hold on!

Possibly the reason using OTS in preference to registrations was mentioned above is that you have an option with OTS. Go to Function/Style Setting and set the OTS link timing to what you prefer - Real time or Next Bar.

But there doesn't appear to be a similar
option for regs.
John

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#162401 - 07/15/07 07:49 AM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
Swissman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Moita, Portugal
Ok, thanks for your answer.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough when asking for help on this issue. I am not looking at dramatic changes in registrations, for example from one song to another with style change without stopping the arranger function. Iíve faced this problem when using the same style for a song and saving a registration for that song (for convenience, I normally liaise the available main variations 1-4 to a different button on a registration, sometimes using the OTS associated with that style, but other times choosing my own sounds to best suit the songs being played).

The problem is evident in almost every change while playing a single song.

If using only OTS, I would loose the advantages of registrations and I donít think this is a good solution.

Take this example, using only OTS:

6-8 Soul (R&B section)

Main Variation 1 has:

-RH1 JazzChorus
-RH2 SparklStack
- RH3 Cyber Pad

When pushing Main Variation 2 with a fill-in and without releasing the right hand (or using a sustain pedal to prolongate the sounds) an annoying strings sound is listened until you release the keys and play again to obtain the Variation 2 OTS:

- RH1 Curvedbars
- RH2 VintageFast

If this is normal, Iím starting to be disappointed with my first Yamaha arranger, despite using my keyboards only at home, to relieve the stress and for my friends and family entertainment.

How do the pros here solve this problem on their gigs?

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#162402 - 07/15/07 08:53 AM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
jwyvern Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 365
Swissman,
I tried the style you mentioned switching from VarA to B and that certainly shows the effect. It's due to the CyberPad which is a heavily sustained voice being switched from a low, barely discernible balance of 40 in VarA up to 100 immediately the VarB button is pressed.
It's particularly bad because even if you take your RH fingers off the KB before pressing B you still hear a residual effect because of the slow release of this voice. (As it happens you can eliminate the latter by taking the release negative in Voice Set).

No amount of explanation excuses it though. I'd be as interested as you in others' comments.
Presumably this happens with PSR 3000K used extensively on gigs also?

John

[This message has been edited by jwyvern (edited 07-15-2007).]

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#162403 - 07/15/07 12:50 PM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
Swissman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Moita, Portugal
C'mon, Yamaha owners SZers..

Give us your ideas on this issue.

Does this happen with the 3K as well (which apparently is being extensively used for gigs)?

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#162404 - 07/16/07 05:35 AM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3716
Loc: Motown
Swissman, welcome to the SZ. There are many Yamaha owners here; they must be sleeping, licking their wounds after the onslaught of G70 postings or out buying an S900. Stick around, they'll be here for you - in droves.

Maybe your question was something that didn't catch their interest. We can be a strange bunch that way. I can say that when I owned my PSR2000 the sound switch was immediate and now with my G70 I have to wait for the next note. Just as you explain. I guess it's just something we have to get used to.

BTW, you'll find that a lot of these guys are fickle owners. Some buy new boards like groceries, while others switch manufacturers just as often. This is a very knowledgeable bunch and you'll find answers to most of your questions quickly and acurately.

Lastly, check out http://www.tyrosworld.com/ for tons of info on Tyros and most other PSR keyboards. It's an invaluable source.

cassp

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 07-16-2007).]
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#162405 - 07/16/07 06:59 AM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
OldNewb Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 636
Loc: Shorewood Wi. USA
Ok,
I do not own a tyros but on my psr2100 this is what I'd do.
First, turn off the OTS link.
Then you can use the different vari buttons as you want, Without changing voices, with or without the fills. Then change the voices using the ots manually if and when you want.
Would that work for you? If not, explain why and I will try to figure out a different procedure.
Jim

[This message has been edited by OldNewb (edited 07-16-2007).]
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#162406 - 07/16/07 07:59 AM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
btweengigs Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 2178
Loc: Florida, USA
3K owner here. And, yes I know exactly what you are talking about. Like you I use registrations extensively. Unlike you, I do not use OTS. Why? Because it changes more than just the R1 and R1 voices in your custom built registrations. Many things from style parts to multi-pads will be affected.

If you dedicate one bank (up to 8 registrations) for each song you build you can customize to your heart's content. Styles can be changed within the bank of registrations and by setting it up properly you can avoid any sustain residue or problems such as you mentioned.

Granted, it may not be as easy to accomplish as on the G-70...but it is do-able.

Eddie

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#162407 - 07/16/07 08:46 AM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
Swissman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Moita, Portugal
Thanks to all of you who took the time to answer my question and the welcome words to the forum.

Actually, I was reading this forum since the last 6 years probably, but not registered myself until May this year.

Yes, I use one bank of 8 (or less) registrations for each song and many times I am not using OTS but my own selections within each registration. The problem is when RH sounds change within that bank. I guess this has no solution unless by not using sound changes during fills.

Believe me, before I will ever post a question here, I will research everywhere I can to avoid disturbing you with silly questions (and this includes reading the manuals and visit other forums).

My background includes experimentation as one way to achieve our aim, and I use this when facing new challenges on my keyboards as well.

Thanks for the help provided.

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#162408 - 07/16/07 02:43 PM Re: Tyros 2 help, please
OldNewb Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 636
Loc: Shorewood Wi. USA
Swissman, Ask any questions anytime you want. You won't bother anyone that does not want to be bothered. On the other hand, researching, whether you find your solution or not, often yeilds other gems of information. I find myself constantly learning new things. Remembering it all is the tricky part.
Jim
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The old Newb

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