Please, these must be totaly "NEW" features not current (or past) ... and this should be realistic too. No arranger that can make coffee...etc, please!!

Your suggestions are appriciated here. Please be realistic and precise in your description/ideas/chat...again, no reference to the past.

Thanks,

AJ

[This message has been edited by Ketron_AJ (edited 02-19-2006).]

Well...you said no reference to the past, but the only thing I can think of right now is something new, but also an improvement over a feature that already exists: to me the ultimate arranger must have the ability to play a STEREO sampled loop in sync with the style.
Today we have available many excellent CDs with tons of great sampled loops, especially of drums and percussions; to my knowledge there are three brands of arrangers that can play a loop in sync with a style: Ketron (with more than one model), Korg (with the Pa1X pro) and Roland (with the G-70, that unfortunately can play only loops found on the expansion boards).
However, all these arrangers can play only MONO loops and this is a shame, because the sound quality of a mono loop is much lower, compared with a stereo loop.
The first arranger that will play a stereo loop in sync with a style will be my next arranger, no matter how pricey it will be.

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 02-18-2006).]

I would like to see real time algorithms that vary the style patterns in real time. These could be built "on top of" current styles that would form the basis. Perhaps several similar styles can be grouped into one and their patterns (or various tracks of their patterns) can be played in a random manner to give variety to the styles. The Lowrey Genius organs (and perhaps current models) already featured a similar mode: each style had several patterns that were randomly played. A more sophisticated version of this can be found in the Korg Karma. This was not developed for style arrangers. However, many of the principles used there could be used "on top of" current existing styles to give them variety in real time in a random, non-repetitive manner.

Sam

A software program for the keyboard that would allow the user with the keyboard and computer connected, to do all editing for the keyboard from the computer.

So style creation and modification, song creation and modification, sound creation and modification, organizing files (saving, loading, copying and so on), all should be able to be done by opening up the software application and done using the computer and all the changes take place on the keyboard arranger. You still would play the keys on the arranger when you are making a style or songs, but instead of trying to deal with the screen and buttons on the arranger, you are using the computer. This should not be a replacement for the screen and buttons on an arranger but an addition to.
The software application must be a very simple and graphics free interface for this to be popular.

This would only help to enhance the interaction between keyboard arranger and the computer since that is where every thing is headed anyway.

An arranger feature I would like to see is that the styles have the ability to change as they progress in each variation.
The only way I can describe what I mean is the way Band In A Box plays a style from a data base from which it selects at random and is not repetitious.

I just noticed that Sam above has made sinilar comments

[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 02-19-2006).]

I rarely participate in here but this time i couldn't ignore this question especially coming from "Ketron".

Dear AJ
I really find it hard to answer your question, I've been using arrangers for the past 13 years, my very first one was a GEM ws-1 then a Solton MS-60, right now I have a Roland G-800, Ketron Vega which's similar to the XD-9, and a Korg PA1X.

Throughout the years I noticed that all other companies go forward except for Ketron, when I had the X1, it had 4 outputs, 2 imputs, more panel buttons, and a sampler, all those and more are missing in all the models that came after the X1 including the latest SD-5.

The day that I find Ketron addding some of the basic features to their arrangers that you find in most of today's arrangers is when i can suggest new ones.

Eddy Awada

[This message has been edited by eddy awada (edited 02-19-2006).]

XLR inputs for microphone, with phantom power.
XLR general outputs.
The ability to have 3 or 4 custom voices for each performance/registration.
Direct acces with dedicated buttons for 8-10 custom voices (I think the Roland VA serie had that)

It's simple for me. Just take Band-In-A-Box, the whole software package and put it into a keyboard with some direct control surfaces and you would have the ultimate arranger/workstation keyboard. The ability to improvise, create, learn, and advance your playing skills and performance.

I really urge everyone to at least take a look at this software. The ability to create charts, transpose charts then print them, create a chord map then have the software synthesize a melody and solo over that chord chart. The ability to to have a software on-board vocal harmonizer, the ability to play vst plug-ins and software synths, and on, and on, and on.

The 1st manufacturer who accomplishes this task will win the keyboard wars. Somebody MUST do this!!!!

Al

[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 02-19-2006).]

FIRST, I also have NEVER understood why EVERY keyboard that has the potential of being used LIVE does not have a stereo pair of XLR outs.

For $1500 to $3500 (estimated cost of MANY of our keyboards and arrangers in todays market) you would think that we wouldn't be forced to work with direct boxes at every gig. XLR outs are a NO BRAINER.

And secondly, how does any company, say Yamahas new Tyros 2, try to promote to their clients that they have a killer vocal processor, harmony or other wise, and NOT provide an XLR in (with or without phantom power...but why not add the phantom power???). I believe that ANY and EVERY board that tries promoting that they have built in vocal processors should have a COMBO 1/4" and XLR input jack. ANITHER NO BRAINER. Don't make your clients pay over $3000 (Tyros 2 and others), and then have to go out and buy an XLR to 1/4" adaptor.

I know you asked for NEW features, but as few copies seem to make logical choices on the inputs and outputs it seems as thought this NEEDED posted.

I would love to see some kind of "style morphing" the ability to blend styles to create new ones. like picking different parts of styles, but every part melts into the tempo and feel of the "master" style. Simular to the way phrase arpeggiators. And maybe a new way of working with styles, maybe treating each part of the style as instrument players, and beeing able to tweak each "player" to your liking. Maybe have libraries of different players, and tools to make up master styles based on theese players. And maybe some kind of dynamic style variation, something to break the repetetive pattern, like Rolands adaptive chord voicing, but one step further. Sounds based on multilayered velocity switched samples, maybe some sounds based on stretch algorithms like sampletank 2 does(raising the pitch of samples without reducing the time of the sample), this gives ultrarealistic wind, brass and reed sounds.

Doc-Z

Didn't the Roland VA7 do the morphing style thing?

Regarding onboard recording, you oughta be able to plug a guiar in and record it to a track.

Maybe... plug a USB drive in and play MP3 files... with a "Player" you could pull up on screen and select the file and even create a playlist for breaks.

------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

Hi, I think a real EASY way to make/edit styles, either with the PC help with a sort of drag and drop feature,(as an example, from Cakewalk/Sonar) the measures from a SMF, or perhaps an output (in the keyboard for a mouse to do this..... and also a second screen on the board that allow you to "edit" or see other action like for the lyrics/score/playslist/plan the mp3s for your break, to do list, etc... for life performances without leaving your operating screen.

OH, I forgot to say:
Make it a controller keyboard so all the buttons, knobs, and sliders are assignable so that the keyboard can perform as a midi controller.

I mean like more of a library of musicians, phrases, riffs, instrument styles, that can be compiled to user styles. Through an easy user interface. And the ability to create seamless transitions between two styles. Not crossfading, but like musicians playing together.

Another cool feature is to have realtime control over "humanizing" properties of each track in the style. That would be cool!

Doc-Z

1 - Include an arpeggiator in the arranger.

2 - Have a set of a dozen or so discrete assignable buttons very close to the keybed. Maybe under the keys like the old console organs. Ability to take any of the functions including those currently only accessabe from inside menus, such as chord scan mode and keyboard split, and harmony type, effects processor, etc... and have the ability to easily assign them to any button.

3 - Ability to buy any off the shelf virtual instrument library and load it in. If you need more memory, make the memory upgrade process very easy and modular.

4 - Ability to plug in a standard computer keyboard and provide EASY midi editing capabilities into the arranger.


5 - Have a unified music database. Where one database selection could contain and call up ANY COMBINATION of any of the following items, registrations, MIDI's, MP3's, WAV's, lyric txt files etc... Create the ability to store 'performance segments' containing a sequence of items from your database, so you could arrange your performance segments in any order and your next song/registration/setup/lyrics/midi/mp3/wav would all be queued up automatically at the end of your current song.

6 - Ribbon controller and Beam controller

7 - Set of at least 10 or 12 assignable velocity sensitive pads. These pads could also recall midi files. With a single touch 'memory' button, allow you to easily play/record anything and assign it to a pad.

8 - Foot controller that is EASY to configure on the fly. Have like a 'direct' button for the foot controller. You hit the button, select a function, tap a switch on the foot controller and it's re-assigned.

9 - Have a break button that will allow you to insert extra measures cleanly. Kind of like a rythem hold that temporarily suspends the rythem without cutting off all the accompaniment voicess, then allowing you to restart at will.

10 - Have a large tiltable display similar to the size of the Oasis, capable of handling not only the Arranger control window, but also a lyrics window and score window and a music database window simultaneously. You could easily switch windows by touching it.

11 - Discrete output channel for drums only.

12 - When using the 'ensemble' or 'harmony' settings, allow you to vary the properties. or have the computer vary the properties of each of the generated harmony voices so they are not totally identical duplicates of the original voice. (except for the pitch) This would produce a much more realistic sound when using the harmony or ensemble function.

13 - In addition to the style buttons, also have a time signature button. Pressing the Ballad style, will bring up all ballad styles, then pressing the 6/8 would filter those styles and display only the 6/8 ballad styles.

I would like to see the return of the 'swing' knob, so you can change the swing feel of a style (from straight to slightly swung to stronger swing etc.) as easily as you used to be able to do on the old 80's drum machines, and a 'half time' button that would keep the hi-hats and percussion parts the same, but halve the time on kick and snare. Both of these features appear on Steinberg's Groove Agent soft-drum machine, and I find them incredible useful, and musical. I also like Groove Agent's MUCH greater choice of rhythms and fills (something like 15 or 20 variations and fills from stupid simple to stupid busy!). An arranger with the ability to have as many variations as you want would be MUCH better than the current limited choice.

I would also like the option to only have the drums play a 'pickup' fill if I hit Fill in the middle of a Break/Mute, just like a real drummer does. Most arrangers, if you hit Break/Mute for a mid-song break, you either have to wait until the end of the bar to start again, or if you hit Fill on the 'three' or 'four', ALL the Acc parts start up rather than just the drummer. Very unmusical!

Lock tempo to stereo beat-sliced loops is only going to be REALLY practical if all the arranger manufacturers adopt USB 2.0 for data loading - as it stands, the load times are impractical for live use. But when it happens, it'll be GREAT!

I guess if everyone is happy to spend maybe $5000.00 all these features could make it to market ........but I doubt it.....when the AVERAGE person is buying KB's in Sam's club, etc ... for $299.00 !!!!

i would like to see an arranger board that could change styles/play endings by way of user settable key velocity/aftertouch...