OK fellow SZ members here are my T2 thoughts as of now almost 2 months of gigging almost every day & night.....
Do I love it? yes & no........Are there better arrangers there that I haven't played yet? Probably, that's an unknown at this time being I haven't played the Genesys, Pa1x, G70/E80,60,50,SD5,Wersi Abacus.......But as far as T2 there is a lot to do to make it your OWN so that it will be usable in a professional live playing situation on stage .......IMO The SA voices are not what they are cracked up to be for my uses and really need to be "played as constructed" & many times in a real situations especially when RT hand comping is required the SA voices are totally useless & need to be replaced by the very good sweet,cool, & regular voices and some of the GM voices which aren't too bad at all.
Yes the SA voices are a great way to market the T2 and sound great in the demos but under real world playing for a pro musician they pretty much are exclusive & really need to be played as designed & being everyone playes differently conforming to Yamaha's requested playing method for these SA voices becomes very annoying & useless for my needs, yea they are great for a player who uses them as LEAD MELODY voices when NOT being a Singer, but as an Accomp rt hand its difficult to control.....I have had to replace many of them to make the T2 sound good for me.
Secondly the Left Hand accomp INITIAL touch control is useless for my needs and the way that I bang the key resulting in me almost dumping the T2 after the first week. Now I have recently had the time to go back and change & shut off all left hand INITIAL touch control "per registration" vs a global shutoff Arggg! to achieve a better flowing constant accomp volume throughout the song.
Now as you all well know the MONO issue with the T2 is horrible to my ears....I have to play in Stereo to be able to be happy enough sound wise to keep the T2 otherwise I yearn for my Ketron Midjay and controller KB with my Bose PAS system that I just got rid of which sounded great in MONO.....my life musically is not like many others, when you have to make a living playing music very day to survive.....& being happy to go to work & play in a happy mood with the tools you use is essential..........100%....if not then my heart & mind starts to wander & yearns for a better solution........!! I know so many people love their T2 & honestly I am not knocking it but rather just voicing my personal opinions and as player/singer using the KB....there are many hours of homework, tweaking, editng, replacing, etc etc involved with the T2 to make it your own...........as there are so many very good things included onboard also that I havnt mentioned yet....thankyou for listening to my rant & I would love to hear your honest personal T2 opinions also PRO/CON? As for me Im making it work gig after gig.....its a good tool & how you configure it & Tweak/EQ makes all the difference BIG TIME!!!

Personal Pros....:
Keyfeel
Hd Recorder
Display Screen
Weight
Mixing console/editing/efx/Eq's
Seperate Mic Vol knob
Aux Inputs
2 Mic Inputs
Multi pads
Most Voices & Styles
Hard Drive
USB
Large lit Buttons
Online Support

Cons:
Exterior design/shape, sharp corners
Sequencer navagation lags from HD takes too long to get to song folders etc etc in real time.
Registration bank Navagation needs inprovement access in real time
SA voices with dropouts in polyphony due to block harmonies mostly on Brass pads
No global part INITIAL touch on/off
Not MONO friendly....but sounds great in Stereo




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-17-2006).]

tyros 2 is the best keyboard out there

I disagree youre statement about the V,harmonizer, it's much better than on the T1 & 3000.
I have no problem to play with the SA voices,never heard a dropout, ?? explane ?
I have never heard a synth/keyboard with a decent sound in Mono, it is made for stereo !
I agree about the desing, too sharp and why
again silver. . .
I wish they made a Tyros with real drawbars and audio synchronisation with the wave player, it would be perfect(and 76 keys:-)

Impuls

Hello Don,
Thank you for your honest evaluation of the T2. I always said that I most wanted to be like you musically. I have my own opinions about arrangers and owned and played a modest number of them. I know and occasionally get together with a number of other musicians and the same discussions as are prevalent on this forum are recurrent. I�ve had in recent years; Roland�s G-600, G800, RA-800; Korg�s i5s, is40, i40M(s) among many other brands including the Orla PK400. I�ve had a Korg PA1XPro for about 7 mos. I have a friend with a T2 that I have listened to extensively and only played briefly. A couple of weeks ago, I spent the better part of a day playing the PSR3000 and last week about the same time with the Genesys XP. I will say that the T2 and Pa1Xpro are in a league of their own. The Pro has some features that the T2 lacks and the T2 has features that a Korg player could certainly use. However, at the risk of starting yet another argument about the �best� arranger board, I must say that I think that the Korg PA1XPro has an distinctive quality that - For Me(!) gives it an edge over the T2. IMHO, the styles and sounds have more �aliveness�, less synthetic. Also, you may like the fact that it has 76 keys.
Having said all that, I bought the Genesys XP. Not because the styles and sounds are better than the Pro and T2 or any of the Rolands for that matter, but it has pretty much the features of the Midjay plus the features that the Midjay lacked and many of the features of the Pro and T2. I do miss however, the USB connection and the touch screen. Everything in the XP is editable and I can use it with my midi accordion and/or my controller � and � I can carry it and not drag it.
I have been using the Bose PAS since November, 2003 and it�s pretty much all that Bose touted it would be. I forego the use of the Bose remote mixer and instead use a mini mixer with effects into the PAS channels 1 and 2 set to zero. I know this doesn�t help with the mono/stereo problem but it seems to be a little more flexible.
Ciao,
Jerry

Donny,
I agree with a little of what you are saying. The SA voices take a little getting used to, and I have saved the older voices in some instances.
I have had ZERO problem with the sound through the PAS. Did you try it?
You are I either one could dump everything and play a Casio WK and the audience would probably not know the difference, much less care.
It's all about what works for you. I am enjoying the T2, but I have pretty much enjoyed all of them, at least for a while.
I have cut back some on my playing schedule, btw. More to come later.
DonM

I love to tease ya'll!

Thanx everyone for chiming in HONESTLY and not BRAND LOYALY It helps us all to talk about the pros & cons ........I ignore MY KEYBOARD IS BEST Posts .......just the facts ..............& experiences please.
Tyros 2 for now does the job because I make it do the job plain & simple & continue to do so.....would I ever dump it? not right now, but in the future there is always the possibility for sure, nothing is forever in this business!

Posted by: DonM

---------------------------------------------
You are I either one could dump everything and play a Casio WK and the audience would probably not know the difference, much less care.
It's all about what works for you.
---------------------------------------------


Well said! In the end it doesn't matter if
someone is playing a Casio WK, Casio CTK, Korg PA1X, T2,G-70, or whatever. As long as the board makes you happy

I may have left arrangers and gone back to synths (because that's what works for me), but things change, I may add an arranger to my synth set up in the near future.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-16-2006).]

I respect Donny's opinions about the Tyros2. He has been a professional musician for many years and he's mostly voicing his concerns about the T2 from a Live performance perspective. Having played the T2 myself I agree with Donny about the SA voices being a little tricky to play in a live setting and that most of them don't sound a whole lot better than many Sweet!, Live!, or Cool! voices in my opinion. But they are a technical advancement in overall voice realism and I think Yamaha is on the right track with the SAV concept. I'm sure they will further improve the SAV sounds and the technology behind it as time goes by.

If you use the T2 for your home or in a studio I could see where some of Donny's concerns about the T2 would not affect you personally and consequently the T2 makes you as happy as can be. Congratulations if it does! More power to you.

But Donny's concerns about the Tyros2 from a long standing professional musicians perspective is just as valid (if not more so) than someone who thinks the T2 has NO faults whatsoever and wouldn't say a negative word about it even if their life depended upon it and all facts and other public opinion pointed to the contrary.

People get this attitude of trying to somehow defend their precious little investment - or in regards to the T2 a HUGE investment. - to the point they're blinded to reality and think they somehow owe Yamaha their undivided loyalty and devotion. Besides, having paid over $3,000 for the T2, they may rationalize that something that expensive which is now theirs couldn't possibly be anything less than perfection. How could it? I paid a fortune so it must be beyond refute right? They try and defend their position to the point of absurdity even when facts and truth point to the contrary. Talk about loyalty right? Oh well... if that is their position then it sure is going to be a hard nut to crack. I just try and tolerate it but inside I'm thinking HELLO??? Somebody please poke that person and wake them up to reality... NO Board is worth defending to the point of extreme. And you don't owe Yamaha a thing either.

Besides in three years or less you will have most likely sold your current Board and gotten something else anyway.

On the contrary, they owe YOU a gigantic amount of gratitude and support for choosing their company over some other and for spending a sizeable portion of your disposable income on one of their products in which they make a handsome profit from. But the way Yamaha tends to forget their valued customers once they've taken the bait from the hook and how they're not as supportive of their products in my opinion as most people would like them to be in the way of OS updates and bending over backwards to please their customers with product support AFTER the sale has been finalized leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. The Tyros will probably never receive another ounce of support from Yamaha in the way of OS updates or product enhancement. And I cringe at what awaits Tyros2 owners. I hope I'm wrong on that one but if the Tyros is any indication of valued product support then T2 owners may be in for a rough ride.

Best regards,
Mike

PS: The Vocal Harmonizer on the T2 is the SAME ONE that is on the Tyros so I cannot fathom why you think the T2 harmonizer is so much better than the Tyros'. They are identical i.e. "one and the same". Let me hear it in person. Post some .mp3 T2 harmony effects if you would please and then I will give you my honest opinion.

Posted by: Keybplayer

---------------------------------------------
People get this attitude of trying to somehow defend their precious little investment - or in regards to the T2 a HUGE investment. - to the point they're blinded to reality and think they somehow owe Yamaha their undivided loyalty and devotion. Besides, having paid over $3,000 for the T2, they may rationalize that something that expensive which is now theirs couldn't possibly be anything less than perfection. How could it? I paid a fortune so it must be beyond refute right? They try and defend their position to the point of absurdity even when facts and truth point to the contrary. Talk about loyalty right? Oh well... if that is their position then it sure is going to be a hard nut to crack. I just try and tolerate it but inside I'm thinking HELLO??? Somebody please poke that person and wake them up to reality... NO Board is worth defending to the point of extreme. And you don't owe Yamaha a thing either.
---------------------------------------------

Excellent statement! It can be seen in all areas of the keyboard market. I owned the Fusion 6HD for a very short time. Man the Fusion's initial release was a nightmare from hell! There were soooooo many OS bugs (HUGE ONES TOO). Talk about a synth release that "totally" bombed

Even though that synth was full of bugs, there were the "di-hard" fans that went nuts if you said anything negative about the unit. I couldn't believe it when I read angry posts about users defending this faulty keyboard with the attitude as if they owed Alesis something.

I got rid of mine and sang nothing but the blues when I had it We're always going to have the keyboard war. The more we fight over the my balls are bigger than yours (in terms of keyboards) sales will just continue to rise. There'll always be the Yamaha Basher, Roland Basher, Korg Basher,and the Ball Basher (our wives). In the end it doesn't matter. As long as we're all happy.

Squeak

Hi Donny

I understand what you say. I loved the G1000 that I used to play, the sounds, the feel. But frankly, in the job I do, as Music Director at our church and in gigs at Nursing homes, I need portability.

I owned the Korg Pa1X for a while, loved the touch and sound, but it was too heavy and too hard to learn how to use.

The T2 is easy to figure out, has a great user interface and is light. That's a big deal to me. That's why I like my Yamaha StagePAS system too. The sound is fabulous for the money and size, far richer than the Z2200 I used to use, and again is relatively light to carry around.

I really want a 76 key keyboard, but again I won't trade off the portability of my T2. It's just the best compromise. When the other manufacturers figure out that that's what we need, then there'll be some competition for Yamaha.

Unless, of course, I get a road crew (it's never going to happen!).

Graham

Thanx fellas for the super posts.....
Mike you are so right, judging by the non existent T2 owner posts who will not respond due to what Mike is talking about in his post !! But hey reality is just that....REALITY! Its just a keyboard, its just a tool of the trade for me ....its a small investment that brings in Mucho monetary returns over & over again, after a few gigs the rest is Gravy! I'll admit a few weeks ago I had many doubts about the T2..but stuck it for lack of a quick swap...
I have no patience....but I'm sought of glad I did take some time which isn't easy with my schedule & tear the T2 apart to tweak it & edit it enough to make it passable enough to perform with to my standards...
So as of today's two gigs ....Honestly, IN Stereo only, it sounds pretty good...but in no way think the T2 out of the box is acceptable.....anyway for now I appreciate the discussion, opinions, thoughts form my friends here whatever they may be & I will see how it goes down the road thru the summer shows......I'll report back then.

l8tr

Donny...
The same is true of the 2K and 3K. Out of the box, both were bland. With time, patience and tweaking the styles and voices went from black and white to full color.
Eddie

i dont understand DNJ. You have only had the instrument 5 minutes. I know that you are a gigging musician and its hard to find the time outside of gigs to really absorb the depth of the instrument but I am sure that you could make any instrument sing given enough time and i dont se how the T2 should be any different. I am not a T2 owner , i prefer the PA1X as i have explained probably too many times!!

The point i am making is that from what i have heard of the T2 live , i dont understand how making great music with it is such an effort in your eyes (ears). I know that you will work with the instrument a little longer but i sense that it might not be long before DNJ makes another swap...

What exactly are you looking for in an instrument that you have not quite found in the T2 ? Or is it just a case that the T2 has been overblown and you are dissappointed because no instrument can live up to the hype this particular machine has enjoyed ?

I think it's really a matter of tweaking things the way you like them and getting used to the sounds and touch of any new instrument. I know it's taken me awhile every time I made a switch.

Sure I can play them "alright" but to get my personal sounds style down takes time and mainly patience.

I went from Lowrey organs which were a breeze because they were set up for senior hobbyists with little or no real parameters for change, so you just found the sounds and styles you liked and ignored the rest.

From there to the KN1000, still pretty organ oriented, but with a lot of tweaking possiblities which I didn't fool with then, just played it like the arranger organs.

Then the PSR2000. A new challenge. I drove myself nuts with it for a long time, mostly because of all the choices for personal settings. Then after getting used to it, the sounds the styles and even putting about 600 songs in the Music Finder, and having it just the way I liked it, and I really, really did like it.

Then I got the Tyros 1. It took me weeks before I felt I made a good decision. Even though I tried it out 3 times before I new I liked it. But, I didn't get one for several months. Over a long period of time, I got more and more used to it, got used to the touch so I could use the inflection that was important to my ears in order to sound good. Had to redo the whole Music Finder, etc, etc. Grrrrrrrr

Fiddled with a PSR3000 and a Midjay before I realized that all they were doing was taking my time away from the Tyros and after working to get used to the touch of the 3000 found it uncomfortable to switch back to the Tyros.

So I made the decision to dump them and concentrate on the Tyros,

Then I get the Tyros 2. I thought it would be a very close switch from the Tryos 1. Not for me. Too many changes. A major portion of it is really mainly getting used to it, and working with what is there. Along with getting your personal setting. Thank goodness Michael Bedesem has the program now were you can transfer the Music Finder info from one to the other quite easily.

I am still getting used to the new key feel. Being more of an organist than a pianist, I preferred the touch of the Tyros 1, as it has the soft organ touch.

Have I been frustrated with the Tyros 2 on occasion, yes, just like evey other new instrument.

Is there a better choice out there for me. No. Not any in that weight catogory which is something that is important to me.

So, there's my slant on it. I would prefer "instant arranger keyboard" right now because I'm busy enough as it is. But, I know that I made the best choice, especially in getting it now when it has first come out on the market. Because now when I get the brainy idea of swichting to a new keyboard, I'm pretty sure it will be a quite a while before there is another super duper have to have keyboard

Best
Scott Langholff
http://ScottLMusic.com

Ouch...:-o
I tough that the T2 was the best worldwide keyboard, the absolute perfection at all..L-)
Impuls, are you maybe asking the features of the T3 or T4?

Anyway, finally one HONEST reply and test from DNJ, for sure now all the other manufactures are reading and interesyed how this post will continue....

I agree with Eddie (Btweengigs). Out of the box, the keyboard is flat, needs tuning and tweeking. However, keep in mind that very few arranger keyboard players take the time to crack open the owner's manual, sit down at the board and page by page go through the book and learn all the features these boards have to offer. This is an important aspect of any keyboard--not just Yamaha boards. It's rare to hear a keyboard that sounds great right out of the box, and off the top of my head I cannot think of one that did not require a significant learning curve and lots of late nights before getting it to sound acceptible.

Forums such as this one have been of immense help in solving some of the tweeking and tuning challenges, and more often than not the information offered up by a number of individuals provides the insight needed to make appropriate changes. Their recommendations are usually from a practical standpoint, resulting from personal experiences using the keyboard. Keep in mind, however, that there are vast differences between the needs of a full-time working OMB entertainer and somneone that plays strictly for their own enjoyment in a home studio setting.

I sincerely believe Yamaha's operating system is among the easiest to use, the most versitile, and offers the greatest number of options--especially for the OMB entertainer. The secret to success is to utilize as many of these options as possible, tune them to perfection, then utilize them in such a manner to where navigating the keyboard is second nature. Everyone has his or her own method of doing this, and there is no right or wrong here--it's just what works best for your needs.

The next part of the equation for OMB entertainers, especially those of us who set up and tear down two, and sometimes three times a day, is to streamline the entire setup to facilitate this in a timely manner. When I first entered the world of the Synthzone I was lugging around monster Peavey speakers, and more damned equipment than anyone can imagine. It took 8 trips to the van with a refrigerator dolly to unload the gear, everything weighed a ton, the wiring was a rat's nest that took 25 minutes to hook up and the total setup time was about 45 minutes. Through lots of creative engineering this task has been shortened to 10 to 15 minutes for the most part, and this includes loading and unloading time. The load now fits on a single Rock "N" Roller cart, rolls in the door of every venue with ease, and you don't even work up a sweat.

Yes, I'm still playing the PSR-3000s, love the sounds, and while I tend to dig into more of the OS than most folks, after two years I'm still discovering things that I didn't know about the keyboard. Sure, there are times when I think something could sound better, and when I encounter this type of problem it is addressed the very next day. I didn't buy the Tyros or Tyros2 because they did not have onboard speakers, which in my case provide me with an onboard monitor that's right in my face all the time. If the T2 had speakers, plus a sunlight viewable LCD display I would have bought a pair of them.

In the end, when it comes to how the keyboard sounds, I gauge the measure of success by what I hear, and my ability to provide my audiences with seamless entertainment. The true measure of success, IMO, is when you look in front of you at a packed dancefloor at lots of smiling faces, people who come to see and hear you perform week after week, month after month, and year after year. When you look at those folks in wheelchairs who are tapping their feet and singing along with you while you provide then with an avenue of escape for an hour or two, you know all the time and effort you put into the keyboard was worthwhile.

Damned, I just wrote another book!

I'm outa' here--I'm going sailing,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Where is Scott Yee when you need him to chime in?

Mike. you're WRONG! Though Tyros2's VH hardware may be similar to the Tyros1's, I know for a FACT that the VH's OS (software) was re-designed to improve vocal tracking, as evidenced by T2's newly added VH "Vocal Tracking" feature which allows you to specifcally set it to: Normal, Low, or High. Tyros1 does NOT include this. I can clearly appreciate & hear the vocal harmony sound improvements that this new feature provides.



Donny: I need only say this:

Tyros2 has INSPIRED me to live performance record more than any other arranger keyboard I've ever owned.

My Tyros2 recorded songs include:
Come Running
Corcovado (Quiet Nights)
This Could Be The Start Of Something Big
Nine Million Bicycle In Beijing
I Get Along Without You Very Well
Nice n' Easy
California Here I Come

Scott

Vocal harmonizer IS improved.
DonM

Quote GaryD: " I didn't buy the Tyros or Tyros2 because they did not have onboard speakers"

From what I have heard everyone say about the Bose PAS, is that you, the performer can hear everything exactly as what everyone else in the room does. If that is the case, why would you not get a Tyros 1 or 2? Why do you still think you need montior speakers on the kb?

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 06-17-2006).]

Exactly!
DonM

I think Donny should ride it out with the Tyros2...Do his homework..set up what he likes, and stay away from what he doesn't like......If he is blown away with a new Roland or Ketron..then make a change,

If the new boards do not blow him away...JUST KEEP THE TYROS2!!!!

It will make Gary, DonM, Scott, Willie, Walter, Craig, Dreamer, Manuel and a slew of other people HAPPY.....

Your audience could care less...

I've shut off all LEFTHAND INITIAL TOUCH this makes me happy

I've changed & saved CMP settings to
"FULL BIT" & the T2 has now come alive & has more output power especially with some nice EQ master settings.

I've shut off all Vibrato on the Voc Harmony settings w/LOW...using Men's Choir. & also reduced BAL to -10

These are just a few things that have made me keep the T2. I want to thank so many people for all the T2 advice....you all know who you are out there...There is definitely much more to do, but it looks promising for sure.......more to come!!

BTW Scott when will you debut your newest T2 Mystery song for us all?

Scott,

I still use the Z-5500 system for some of the smaller jobs, such as the wedding I'm doing tomorrow afternoon at someone's home. While the Z-5500 satellites would likely be enough, my hearing is shot to hell from gunfire going off next to my head when I was a kid in the U.S. Navy. Consequently, I need every edge I can get in order to hear myself playing, especially when not using the Bose PAS. When using the PAS, the onboard speakers are just icing on the cake.

BTW: The wind in the Chesapeake's upper reaches was a steady 15 knots, and sailing was great.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Hey, leave me out of that list. I REALLY don't care what everybody else uses. I try to find what works best for me!
DonM

UPDATE as of tonight's GIG 6/17:

After making all these changes I mentioned above the T2 is really kicking butt on stage......Now..........
I'm starting to Fall in LOVE

IM A pro & tyros 2 works for me it far better than tyros 1 it is very good once you do all your settings and i have had mine since november and the audience is thrilled

Originally posted by Scott Yee:

"Mike. you're WRONG! Though Tyros2's VH hardware may be similar to the Tyros1's, I know for a FACT that the VH's OS (software) was re-designed to improve vocal tracking, as evidenced by T2's newly added VH "Vocal Tracking" feature which allows you to specifcally set it to: Normal, Low, or High. Tyros1 does NOT include this. I can clearly appreciate & hear the vocal harmony sound improvements that this new feature provides."
_____________________________________________
Similar?? How bout the 'same' Scott?

As far as I'm aware the Tyros2 VH board is the 'exact' same one as the one on the Tyros. The software on the other hand is something entirely different than the hardware end of things.

Okay, so it has some new tracking 'software' and also Low, Medium, and High adjustments, etc. But the 'core' of the VH is the same.

Btw, I listened to a couple of your T2 songs with VH in them and they sounded good. Anything that Yamaha does to try and improve upon the VH is to be commended. What I would like to see is for them to tackle the hardware end of things and improve that.

FWIW, Yamaha could very easily (at least I think anyway ) put the T2 VH tracking software on the Tyros by way of an OS update if they wanted to. But I may be asking too much for me and thousands of other Tyros owners around the world I suppose.

Best regards,
Mike

After making some critical tweaking adjustments to the Tyros 2 VH, I'm having no problems using it at all.
These adjustments include, Bal-20/Vibrato 0
/Mic gain pod in rear 9 oclock/Voc range set to LOW/Master Mic Vol knob 12 oclock/Mic Vol 127/ Mens Choir.
This combined with my own personal Mic Mixer settings does the job.

The only thing I will say is that one can take advantage of the SA voices and play them as easily as any other voice by adjusting the velocity for that voice. One can set it precisely to the velocity point for their playing style to be effective without getting the unwanted effects and saving that in their registrations or as a custom voice..

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

Terry I agree with you.....

In adddition the Tyros 2 needs as much attention to playing skills as it is to tweaking skills to get the sound YOU desire out of its many facets......out of the box playing with this baby is not gonna cut it....although with MUCH time, patience, practice, asking questions & the love for playing music will make you successful...

I tend to think that quite often, owners of these various keyboards spend more time tweaking them than playing them. I believe that on whole I can play just about any keyboard and make it sing. I guess I'm missing out by not spending all the time I should by resetting all the factory parameters.
I guess I just don't get it. With the exception of Mike telling me about my recordings clipping (Thanks Mike) I don't really see all the fuss about how terrible a keyboard can be and then by tweaking it a little it turns magically into something new. I know that no matter how stellar and technologicaly advanced these things become it still comes down to your ability to play the damn thing with skill and precision.

ALL MY LOVE...

Dennis


[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 06-24-2006).]

COME ON...

I own a T2 and I'll respond to anything

Amen!

Ditto & Amen to what Dennis (TwoNuts & Taike) said.

Scott

Me too. I'll respond to anything. I added nothing to this, because what's to add? Donny started this by stating his honest OPINION ( not necessarily fact but for him) what's to add to that. If this is how he feels about the board, I'm ok with that.

By responding and taking issue with anything he or anyone has said only invites argumentation. I responded about the SA voices, because I felt his statement was not fully correct.

About the insistance that the T2 needs massive tweaking ....... I totally disagree, use mine every day for every recording I do and everything is still pretty much at factory settings. The comments I am getting from another forum of 99% synth/workstation players are "that sounds great, I need to look at one of those."

This tweaking thing which I'm not much of a tweaker, I'm a player, always brings to my mind a cronie I have that I met when I was starting my first cd, he was too. He kept looking for the "perfect" guitar sound for a track...... I'm into cd#101, his first isn't completed yet. Perfection in music does not exist, it's merely a lofty goal to push towards. IMO

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

Scott.....so then I guess your not the T2 tweak king?
You know as well as I do .....Playing/Singing good and sounding great in the ears of the audience is crucial to success......if you just play at home its not such a factor...But when people pay good money to be entertained you had better put out 200% or your audience will be Yourself!.....people that are lazy about our profession in all aspects make me sad BUT, they put a smile upon my face & $$$$$ in my pocket because I know after a while they wont be playing out much with an inferior product..... Remember this analogy:
Go to a good Restaurant.....The Food Is GREAT every time you go,.........You go home, tell your friends about the place & suggest they go there too!.....on the other hand If the Food is BAD, You NEVER go back, & Never tell your friends to eat there..


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-25-2006).]

I don't know if you'd consider me the tweak king, but I certainly find it worth spending time tweaking Tyros2's sound to get them to sound better than ever. My reply was specifically meant to concur with Dennis' following quote:



Tweaking , though certainly a critically important element, is still only part of the mix. Devoting time to arr keyboard practicing, including mastering SA voice keyboard emulation skills, is equally important. There are no SHORTUCTS to keyboard musicianship, and because music's a lifelong journey, I hope to continue learning new keyboard playing techniques for years to come. It's important to realize it can take far longer than 2 months to get settled in with a new keyboard. Before even considering trading one's current keyboard in for another, I'd give it at least 6 months (minimum) before even considering that option. A keyboard is like a marriage. It takes commitment to make it work. - Scott

A keyboard is like a marriage. It takes commitment to make it work. - Scott

It sure does Scott. I don't intend playing
D.I.V.O.R.C.E just yet, unless someone request it

All I'm saying is one should care mucho about his playing & sound in a continuous effort to make it better as you go along....there's always room for improvement on playing techniques/singing,& taking some quality time to get involved with your instrument & focus on the sound you produce, strive to be the best your can be musically because in the end you'll either reap the rewards or get bit in the Butt !
Would you like to go under the knife with a LAZY Surgeon? Make great music, take the time to do it right, ask questions, ask opinions, listen with your ears & mind open, take constructive criticism and toss it around in your mind, go see people play, make friends & share thoughts with other musicians on the Internet, Skype, etc..,
get into it baby!!!!


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-25-2006).]

Right out of the box the Tyros or Tyros2 sound good to my ears. And if you are a masterful piano player like Dennis (TwoNuts) is then you can most likely make any keyboard basically 'sing'. However the 'art' of "tweaking" or more accurately stated "embellishing" is part of the equation also in my opinion.

What I am trying to do is make the sound coming out of the keyboard as realistic sounding as possible. In other words, a B3 emulation that sounds like a real Hammond B3 etc. To do that it is necessary sometimes to edit the factory sound and/or layer sounds together to hopefully make a closer representation of the real thing. Although nothing sounds exactly like the real deal (at least by todays keyboard standards anyway) , making the sound as close as possible by 'tweaking' the presets can further enhance the players overall sound presentation and I would think the audiences satisfaction as well.

When I listen to any keyboard instrument's sound I want it to sound like the real deal. Otherwise if it's not it will diminish its effect on those who hear it in my opinion. We're talking thin sounds or otherwise sounds with a poor representation of a real instruments sound.

Tweaking sounds to sound as realistically as possible further enhances the presentation of an OMB, or even if you are in a Band and don't use the accompaniment features of an Arranger.

And then there are other enhancements as well like the Vocal Harmony board on an Arranger or Style accompaniment, etc.

As a teaser, here are two Styles that I tweaked to sound 'better' on the keyboard on which it is played; in this case the Tyros.

These are Tyros2 Styles that have been 'tweaked' to sound acceptable on the Tyros. As you know the Tyros2 Styles have incorporated the SA Voices and also many Sweet!, Live!, and Cool! voices that aren't found on the Tyros.

The first part of the demo is the untouched Tyros2 Style where you will get an idea of how generic it sounds played on a Tyros. There are even sounds 'missing' because the Tyros2 styles are not fully compatible when played on the Tyros because of the SAV's, etc.

The second part is the same, albeit "embellished" Tyros2 Style, played on the Tyros and where I tried to make them compatible and as lifelike as possible.

Here are the two short demos:

Tyros2 FranklySoul Style

Tyros2 Flamingo Style

PS: This is an example of tweaking styles from different keyboards but the same idea applies to the sounds on any keyboard itself.

>> I hope Yammie doesn't mind me demonstrating their Tyros2 styles on a Tyros. >> It is just for comparison purposes you understand; and to demonstrate how tweaking sounds or styles can be effective in improving the overall sound of a keyboard.

The Tyros2 Styles played on a Tyros2 is the ultimate way to hear the sound the way it was intended to be heard of course.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 06-25-2006).]

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-10-2006).]

Mike .........That was a great comparison & demonstrates the power of "TWEAKING" & taking the time to make the "style yours" it's worth the time & effort for sure.

I concur that enhancements can be made to the out of the box setting on any keyboard. Examples to be sure would be FX and EQ and typicaly whatever sounds better to the ear of the listener. I would venture to say however that the minor embellishments do not make the keyboard. I'm sure that manufacturers designed the afore mentioned parameters with the ability to be changed to do exactly what everyone is doing, adjusting the keyboard to their own personal preferences. I would never seek to castigate anyone for adjusting the keyboard for a better sound output. I just don't pretend for a moment that it is the end all of what makes or breaks a keyboards ability to be good or not. I myself make modifications to various instruments that I use to get a paticular type of sound that I am looking for. Sufice to say "I Believe" that enhancements can and do make things better.

Regards,

Dennis

[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 06-25-2006).]

Hello Mike
Interesting demo, and on the soul recording the second is definitely the best, except for the Organ Tremolo which is a touch too fast.
The Flamingo style I thought sounded better in the first instance, the second sounding unnatural.
Here is a link to the B4 page, (A B3 emulation) which if you listen to the demos, will allow you to tweak your Tyros to give a more authentic sound. (The B4 is as close as it gets) http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=b4ii_us
Thanks for the demo, please don�t take the above as criticism, but just another point of view from different ears.

Bill

Mike
I thought both your tweaked versions sounded better.


About all this tweaking to make it "sound" all should keep in mind that are back to the elusive what one hears to what I hear and which sounds best.

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

I saw this T2 demo on the pkowner forum...

"This is an excellent video although in German language: http://www.keyboard-seminare.de/T2/T2.html
Could it possibly be translated into English in the near future?"

Excellent post. That's amazing how you improved those.



------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

Thanks Bill.

PS: I had one of the demo Styles listed as the Tyros2 "6-8 Soul" Style. It is actually the T2 "FranklySoul" Style that I used for the demonstration. Sorry for the error everyone.

>> I have corrected the error to reflect the change in the post that contains the T2 Style demo links.

Best regards,
Mike