Hi all,
Has anyone plaied the Wersi Ikarus X1 and give some comments on it? Does it have built in speakers?

Hi!
I am playing the Wersi Abacus for the last three years and I will update it to the latest OAS version 6.0 in the next two months.As far as I know the Icarus has essentially the same features like my Abacus
-except one Microphone input- but on the other hand it comes in a much lighter/smaller cabinet and features a 72-keyboard instead of the 61 of the Abacus.
The sound and the facilities- mainly due to the built in Windows PC- of these instruments together with the proved upgradeabilty ,puts them above the rest IMHO.
Apart from the OAS Stereo samples I am using VST instruments live from within my keyboard!
And NO, there are no problems with WIndows exept if you really want to create one!
The combination of the big touch screen,push buttons and 32 real time faders makes
real-time operation very easy and fast.
If have any specific questions I would be happy to answer.

Hi and many thanks for your message!
How many styles does the instrument have from the beginning? Has it got one touch settings and multipads? Has it got sequencer?
Best regards,
Christian

Hi: Good to hear that the Wersi is working for you.

How heavy is that keyboard? Also, can you load third party windos programs on it. And can it record audio?

Thanks

[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 01-19-2005).]

Hi!
here are some answers to your questions:
I do not know the exact weight of the Abacus but it should be in th 30+ range mainly due to the wooden cabinet and the two woofers built under the keyboard .Also the front panel is steel and not plastic.I can load it and unload it myself from the car -to the trolley -to the stand and vice versa.The Icarus is built in quite smaller and lighhter aluminium case without the woofers so the total is 20kg.The Icarus has only mid-high speakers build in (though not exactly visible!) and there is a separate sub woofer that can be connected.The internal speakers have their own output channel with volume and EQ -amd there are two more stereo out channels that can be configured saparately.
The Icarus comes with 194 styles each with two intros-two fills/breaks/two endings and four variations.Each style has two drums tracks and 5 instrument track that can use any of the available sounds be it OAS ,VST inrtument or even external module via MIDI.The number of styles that can be loaded on the 40GB internal HD is practically unlimited but the current limit for the styles that can be stored in the OAS database is 2000.On the Icarus there are also 50 'RealDrums', that is styles where the Drum track is an audio recording of a real drummer palying.OAS databease can hold up to 500 realdrums.There are 2000 one touch settings - 'Advance Total Presets' in the Wersi language.One Preset can store many settings and if you wish may recall a Style/SMF/Wave/MP3( but not the other way round).There is a 'quick edit' page for changing the sound selection/mix/transpose etc for a sequence and an equivelant one for styles.To further edit/create styles/sequences there is a 'touch button' that takes you to Steinberg Cusbasis.A nice thing is that you can edit the sound mix for a style/sequence live,while you play and save it without having to stop.Also it is possible to assign any(or all!) of the 16 tracks of a SMF to the volume sliders and control the mix in real time.
Instead of Multipads there is a number of so-called 'effect buttons' that replay a wave file from the disk .Apart from the factory supplied sound-effects wou may record anything and use it under an effect button.Yes,you can record audio -either using the 'Digital Tape' i.e recording everyhting in stereo as you play and sing or of cource use any Windows software to do more detailed work .Wavelab-lite is preinstalled as well as a CD Rewriter.You may use the audio recording facility to record any sound and use it a 'drum instrument' in the 64 progammable drumsets. A nice detail here you may use two different drumsets in the same style at the same time.Yes, practically most Windows software can run (allthough it may void the warranty)because these instuments are build around a normal PC.I have tried NI Kontakt and absynth and Wersi themself sell a special version of NI B4 that can be controlled via the keyboard's sliders.

There is some info and samples about the Ikarus X1
here: http://www.wersi.co.uk/
GJ

Hi and many thanks for that info!
So, when using the diffrent functions, like changing styles, you go into a Windows application or will it automatically load when you switch on the unit?
What connectors does it have? Has it a mouse connector so you can navigate Windows when you're not using the other functions of the unit?
Best regards and thanks,
Christian

Hi Christian,
you operate the keyboard through a combination of hardaware buttons and sliders and the OAS application which shows various 'soft buttons' and menus on the touch screen.This OAS program is loaded automatically when you switch-on and it is this that 'runs' the whole system.There is no need to use Windows directly to operate the keyboard.(You can do it of cource if you like).Have in mind the audio processing is not done by the Windows porcessor but an array of 12 32bit Digital Signal Processors so there is no overload to the system.For changing a style/sound etc you can 'touch' the respective button shown on the screen or if you want to change to another page of styles/sounds you press the respective hardware button.You may program exactly what each button does through the 'mapping' function.
There is also the quickload function that helps you search the OAS database through user defined categories (while you still play the keyboard) to find the style/sequence/mp3/sound/preset etc you are looking for.You can start playing with the keyboard 'out of the box' but you have the possibility to transorm it to exactly what you want: Edit/Load the sounds you like (AKAI compatible), use third party VST instruments ,load all the styles/waves/SMF/SMP3 you need, then organise everyhting into user defined categories in the database for quick find,map the buttons to recall exactly what you like and memorise all your settings prssing one button to one of the 2000 setups.
In the rear of the instrument you can find all the standard PC conections(PS/2 Keyboard & mouse,USB,parallel & serial ports erc) the 2 stereo audio ins and the Microphone input ,the 3 stereo outs,two sets of MIDI ports.
In version 6.0 you may also store the lyrics sheets together with the chord symbols so you dont even have to carry any paper with you.
And if you,like me,play in different venues every week you can also memorise the output mixer and EQ/FX settings so the next time you are in the same place touch a button and everything is setup for that place.Just connect your microphone and power amp/speakers and you are ready to go!

best regards
Costas

What sort of time does it take to "boot up" from cold?

I ask this because of the instrument's underlying use of Windows, which normally takes a little while to become fully useable on a normal PC. A minute or more is not uncommon, even on a well configured, reasonably modern PC - assuming a fairly typical amount of software is loaded.

Whilst most high-end keyboards from the likes of Roland, Korg, Technics, Yamaha and the like do take a short time to load their operating systems from cold, they are normally fairly quick - say 20~30 seconds or so. Is the Wersi noticeably slower in this respect?

Hi MikeTV,
As you understand being a Windows based system it is natural to take a couple of minutes from cold boot to be operational:it loads the Windows OS, The OAS programm which in turns loads the samples to RAM nad then the VST instruments ( if any)
Before a live perfomance you can use this time to setup other things ( mike stand,cables).To avoid having this in the middle of a perfomance, I always use a small UPS /Surge protector ( as with all PCs) to avoid restarts due to power failure/problems.

No doubt the Abacus and Ikarus are great boards, but it's pretty scarey to me when a boards OS is Windows. Does that mean the board is subject to all the same bugs as the standard Windows program? Do you get freeze ups, and that dreadful "fatal blue screen"? Waiting for it to power up wouldn't be a problem for me, but with a hicup in power and the board has to completely reboot, that makes me nervous. With boards that don't have Windows, typically you're settings go back to where you were last at start up, and it doesn't take long either.

Squeak

Squeak,
I doubt that any OS freezes much if you run it as the factory sets it up. It's when you introduce third party software to an O/S that creates incompatabilities. If the O/S is dedicated to the single tack of running ONE kb ... I'd trust that it can do that as well as an internal keyboard O/S.....is there really much difference? All the newer digital gear is computer driven anyway, right?
Who knows?

Hi all,
Nice with this discussion!
I was also wondering about the bootup time. And yes, most of the keyboards/synths are computerbased today when more and more functions gets implemented.
I heared that there is a vocal processor for the Ikarus/Abacus and from what I understand it is an expansion board. Do you know what effects does it have? How does it sound?
Best regards,
Christian

To UncleDave and Squeak,
Yes, I confirm that the my Wersi OAS system is stable even after running some third party (music related)software.There are cases I had a blue screen but that was when I was experimenting with things i should not touch (being myself a software developer..) i think in the latest versions a lot of critical files are protected.Of cource I do not connect my keyboard to the Internet(though it is possible) and I do not install any software like games/utilities and other memory resident applications.Standard Hard Disk maintenance is essential (Scandisk/Defrag) and I have also a complete copy of my hard disk just in case the intrnal hard disk fails but I have not used it yet.Have in mind that this is a standard (qood quality) hard disk.
As a matter of fact I have upgraded the inernal PC from Celeron 700Mhz that was originally to a Pentium 4 3Ghz HT.This did not make a noticeblae difference in everyday use but I did it to be able to run sof synths in the background.The Icarus comes with an Athlon processor and the rest of the OAS systems with P4 2.4 and higher.
To Christian:yes there is an optional card for vocal harmoniser processing that can be installed in any OAS model.I use it too but I can recall now exactly how many 'programms' it has, but they include duett/trio/quartet with different harmony variations ,effects like gender change,'Mickey Mouse' and what I consider more usefull a mode where the harmony information is derived directly from the notes played (left hand split ).It is possible alos to assign any track af any SMF to the Harmoniser.The wet/dry FX and EQ as well as selection of output are progrmmable.The important detail here is that,being intrgated into the system,the whole proccesing is in the Digital Domain and the final sound is converted to analog only at the output.
Of course Harmoniser settings are programable.
There is a 'sof-button' on the touch screen to activate/deactivate the harmoniser fuction on the Microphone 1 audio channel.

Hello Cosel;

I see that you have the Abacus keyboard. I would be interested in your experience with your Abacus, both the Pros & Cons. The Mp3 Demos from Wersi's website give one an idea of the potential of sounds and styles. But of course the compressed Mp3s are not the best format to determine sound quality. Can you give me an indication of how their other sounds and styles compare on your keyboard [ Long wave SS & Long wave GM, Oas-X1, OX-7, wersi sound libraries, others ]. I am most interested in the quality and realism of the sounds (solo instruments /accompaniments ( ex do they have that" Live band/performance feel"? Do any voices & accompaniments stand out as spectacular? How do both the guitar voices and guitar accompaniments sound ( ex guitar struming,rhythym guitar picking, slides, finger scraps etc..) How do they compare to Tyros mega voice guitars & Pa1x guitar accompaniments? If you are not familiar with these, they are failrly realistic sounding.

I don't know if you are using the Oas 6.0 but if you are, I am curious as to how the Real drums sound now that there is tempo change capabilities. And what does Wersi mean by tempo adjustments "within some limits"?

How do you rate the ergonomics of the keyboard ( ie Ease of use for both live & programing capabilities -sequencing/creating new styles )

Thank you for your input
Regards;
SCP

Hello SCP,
as I said in my earlier posts, I am still using the original Version 3.30 released on 27.09.01!!
I have not upgraded to OAS6 yet due to lack of time but I will probably do it some time in the next month.
So I can comment on the sounds I already have installed and from these the best of course are the Long Waves i.e. the stereo samples from the hard disk.Most of them are very natural sounding with a lot of detail and velocity crossfades (multisamples).Among the best are IMHO the Grand Piano, Accoustic quitar,and most of the Brass & Reeds, including also lots of accodions.Choirs and Human voices are excellent.There are also many full pad sounds.Its difficult to find a 'not good' long wave sound.
Unfortunatelly these sounds cannot be used in the styles/sequences in versions prior to 4.0 so I cannot tell you how they sound in that context.I can tell you that using layering I have very real sounding Big Bands,jazz trios,etc..
The organ sounds come from the built-in OX7 'Organ Expander' that uses a DSP chip to (re)create mainly the sounds of older Wersi models and those of the B3.I feel that the (NI) B4 is much more close to the original.Drawbars can be used in realtime or saved as presets.For GM sounds in this version,an extra sound card was used with about 600 sounds available but these do not come any close to the LWSS.This card is not used anymore after v4.0 so there is no need to say anything else about it.Other sound options are loading AKAI samples ,using soft synths or extrnal MIDI devices.There is no sampler available (yet?).
The ergonomics of Abacus are very good:big touch screen in the center,lots of big user porgrammable buttons for selecting sounds on one side -for styles/sequences on the other and big drawbar-like volume sliders.
A style/seq can be mixed live ,while you play and saved without interrupting you playing.To edit notes or to create style/seq from scratch you have to used either the (factory preinstalled) Cubasis (or any other windows software.I also use EMC Styleworks for initial conversion of styles. Most of the programming is done using Touch Screen and the jog wheel while the the othjer controllers are mainly used for live playing.
I hope I will have my instrument updated soon to answear also your OAS6 specific questions.

Thank-you for replying Cosel;


Have you done much conversion with your EMC StyleWorks software? ( i.e. converting Tyros/psr, Korg Pa80/pa1x, Roland ( g-1000/VA series styles to Wersi) Any conversion problems? Do you need to tweak the converted styles to make them sound right/correct??

I noticed above you were using some VSTi instruments software. Do you or anyone else know of any very good live realistic sounding software modules ( for solos instruments--i.e. saxphone, guitars ( strat/telocaster/ gibson s-57 etc..), clarinets, strings, trumpets, brass, violins,accordians etc.. If so please state the name and/or website.

If I can confirm what you said above, since both the OX-7 & NI B4 are options when purchasing the Ikarus, would you say to just purchase the B4 modules which will give one everyhting that the OX-7 has???

Further I noticed that you made some updates/upgraded you CPU/HD etc.. Does Wesri use propriatary hardware, or can one install any companies Hardware ( i.e. hard drives/ RAM , processors etc..) The reason I ask is, would it be cheaper to upgrade ones self or have buy the upgrades from Wersi. ( i.e. they offer an upgrade from 40Gb to 80Gb HD and from 512 to 1.5Gb Ram)


I look forward to hearing your comments on the new OAS ver 6.0 upgrade. Please keep me informed.

Thanks for the help
Regards;
SCP

Hi SCP,
I have converted styles from various mades & models -especially ones that were made for specific songs-but I use more the SMF to style function to get exact the style for the song I need.Of cource always some 'remixing' is nessecary -particurarly on dynamics.As I mentioned before the Wersi supplied sounds are very very good so my addition of VSTis was done -apert from the experimental side-to cover specific sounds that are not available on my set (e.g.ethnic instruments).All the instrumental sound you are refering in your post are very well covered in the OAS instruments.
The basic Icarus configuration includes a tonwheel organ software module (Creamware?) that is controlled in real time from the front panel sliders.The NI B4 can be installed in addition.I dont know if these options give you the classic 'Wersi-organ' sound apart from the B3.
OAS 3.30 had no restrictions concerning different PC hardware.It requires of course certain hardware components to be present -with the proper activation codes-like the DSP cards etc. I have heard lately that a 'Hardware PIN'soft-button has appeared on newest versions ,so probably they now lock the whole thing together including PC configuration.
In any case I should advise someone to have the instrument upgraded and serviced by Wersi authorised technicians not only to save time but to ensure problem free operation.

Frankfurt Music Messe
according to the Wersi Website:
'fantastic new innovations and a fresh wind will inspire everybody at the Music Messe 06-09/04/05'

Lets wait and see ( and listen!)

Do you know of any other Wersi forums, work groups on the net, from which I can obtain more information on the OAS keyboards & pose questions??

Do you know specific information of what Wersi is going to showcase (new products) at the Frankfurt Music Messe show???


Regards;
SCP

http://groups.yahoo.com/ do a search for Wersi