I'm looking into purchasing a Vocal Harmonizer and I have some concerns. I have a Tyros and find the Harmonizer unusable in live situations. Too much garble caused by the mic picking up the music and regurgeitating it.

First, is this a problem with all Harmonizers?

Secondly, if so is there anyway of fixing it?

Lastly, if all harmonizers do not have this problem and can minimize it, which ones would you recommend?

I would be using this in a single, duo or three pcs situation mostly for live work but I would want to use in recording demos also.

I know many of you are pros and I highly respect your opinion(s). BTW my budget would be $1000.00 or less.(prefably less)

Thanks in advance for any feedback you may provide.

Ed

The BEST is what works best for YOU, with YOUR gear, and satisfies YOUR desires ...

You really need to get out and test a few ... the most common mentioned here are the digitech: http://www.digitech.com/
and tc helicon: http://www.tc-helicon.com/VoiceWorks

The fact that you are picking up the music through your mic may have more to do with the mic than with the Ty harmonizer ...
What are you using?

t.

I too had experienced Tyros vocalizer 'harmony' problems (occasional harmony mistracking (off key) and/or go in & out) . Luckily, I've now since found the SOLUTION to the problem, of which involed making a simple 'mic setting' change adjustment.

Previously, I had my

Mic Settings > Vocal Range, set to: "NORMAL". I've since changed this to: "LOWER" and now my keyboard's vocal harmonies track correctly and sound pretty clean and clear. The "NORMAL" setting is a 'compromise setting' to accomodate BOTH male & female voices, but the "LOWER" setting is more specifically targeted for optimizing VH to a lower (baritone/bass) voice like mine.

Though my TC Helicon "VoiceWorks" sounds perhaps better, I'm now very content with the Tyros Vocal Harmony results for live performance, and even find it acceptable (in some instances) for song recording as well.

Ed, before going out and spending extra $ on an external VH, please try my suggestion and let me know your results.

Good luck.

Scott

Ed,

Sounds as if you have a mic problem more than anything else. What mic are you using?

Gary

"Which is the best Vocal Harmonizer?

Don Rich was good.
:}
DonM

The mic is a problem!! You need a mic that you have to sing straight into to pick-up your voice. If it is a wide range pick-up mic it won't work no matter what brand it is or how much it cost. I find the Shure Sm58 works great for me.

I had this problem 4 years ago when I started playing again and the local music store explained this to me. They were right

Lower your MIC gain pod to 9 o'clock

I use a TC voicelive, and it's the best by far, it sounds crystal clear, sounds real, built in limiter compression and effects,

Well worth the money, even has an instrument input so it can be used as a mixer. Built in pedals, the thing is worth it, and you can sell your keybaord and get a new one and all your settings stay.

I have officially retired onboard vocal harmonizers from my lists

Look at this site > http://www.michelvoncken.com/
Go to video and look at the vocal harmony workshop, it is in german but you can look to the display settings and listen to the examples.

Regards,
Arno.

You can translate the information into English by Clicking Here and then enter the web site information.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Thanks for all of the great responses.

Tony & Gary,
I am presently using a Shure SM-58 mic.

A long time ago I used a digitech and never seem to be able to get it to work properly. (I am sure that they have made many improvements since the one I purchased was many years ago I still have it if anyone would like to purchase it for $50/plus shipping it didn't work for me, but if someone wants one just for home use it probably would be Ok.)
Perhaps, I would be better off to replace me rather than the mic. My wife seems to think that this would be good solution LOL

Scott,

I will try using your setting and see what happens. I'll let you know within the next day or so

Don,

Where's is Don Rich located and what is his price.

Bricboo,

As stated above I have the same mic as you.

Dnj,

Will try that setting as soon as I'm able to get my k/b home and set up. Presently, it is on the job and there is no good time for trying because people are constantly in this resturant and it would be very annoying to them for me to test.

Frankieve,

The TC Helicon is the one I keep hearing about, so I am definitely considering if I can't get the Tyros Harmonizer to work to my satifaction.

Arno/Gary,

Thanks for address on the Voncken workshop and the translation. I will take a look at it latter this eveing.

Again, thanks for all of the great responses. I'll let you all know how I make out in the next couple of days.

Ed

PS What is the best price anyone was able to find on the TC Helicon and where did you purchase? Is the best model for what I am doing probably the "Voice Live"? Thanks again.

I have a TC-Helicon VoiceLive laying around doing nothing if your looking to buy one. I paid $800 for it, name your price.

Regards,
Al

P.S. BTW, I think the TC-Helicon Voicelive is the best unit!!! :-)

Al,

How come you're not using your HC Helicon? I May be interested in purchasing if I can not get the Tyros to Work to my satisfaction.

Feel free to drop me an email Mistered41111@excite.com.to disgust best price and your location for a possibly pickup

Thanks

Ed

Wow, is that a fraudian slip; "disgust best price" LOL I swear I'm not that much of a hard ass!!!

I'll send you an email this evening (Wednesday). I'm in southern New York state (Orange County). I'm not doing any solo gigs right now that require the vocalizer and I have managed to squeeze out some decent performance from the Tyros2 for the ones I do have. I'm looking to get something like $650 for it. Or best offer.

Regards,
Al

Scott and Al,

Did you receive my emails?

Ed

after using a vocsalizer for 3 years,
I stped using one totaly for the last 6 months & never looked back....its bad enough the audience doesnt believe most of the time we are playing the keyboard let alone an arranger kb....why add to it & confuse them in more disbelief with high tech multi vocals.....this year Im taking the "keeping it simple approach" on stage & believe me it works very well

less is more !

I'm experimenting with the onboard Midjay harmonizer, which is merely a vocoder.
You can assign it to right or left hand. It "sings" the notes you play, nothing automatic.
You can do some neat things though. You can hold a note with your voice and move the harmonies around. The jury is still out.
DonM

I actually have used a system that is similar to Donny and Don's previous comments..

Instead of a harmonizer, I use a choir/voice/scat sounds to back up my vocals in real time...This works well with Roland's vocal patches..I also can control the vocal patches with an EV5 pedal..

Hi Ed, yes, just read it now. You asked:



Ok sorry. I just realized that the MIC SETTINGS: 'vocal range' parameter selection (normal, lower, upper) feature is NEW to Tyros2 and NOT included with Tyros1. As far as VoiceWorks vs Voice LIVE is concerned, though I've never owned the VOice LIVE, I've found the VoiceWorks more than adequate for my professional level needs, and like I said before, for all my live performance venues, I now rely solely on the Tyros2's vocalizer, now that I finally have the settings tweaked, the vocal harmonies sound very good to both myself and my audiences. - Scott

imho, nothing comes close to the TC Helicon gear, fwiw...i have one built into my pa1x and its very musical...even recorded it sounds good..

Scott,

Thanks for the reply. I thought perhaps I was over looking something, but it sounds like they have made some changes to the harmonizer on the tyros II.

Al - Again if you get a chance please email me so that we can "discuss" purchasing your TC Helicon Unit - Thanks

Dnj - I did lower the mic gain to 9 oclock it did help some, but I'm still not satified. I'll keep tweaking. Thanks for the tip.


Regards
Ed

Ed,

The SM-58 was difficult at best to work with using the keyboard's onboard vocal processor. Though DNJ loves his, I sold mine because of the problems I encountered. The best handhelp mic I've encountered in two decades is the Samson Q7, which really does a fantastic job. No feedback at all, even when standing directly in front of the Bose PAS tower. Excellent frequency response, outstanding clarity, and IMO the tonal qualities are far superior to the SM-58.

I currently use a headset mic, the Crown CM-311A, mainly for the freedom it offers and the outstanding vocal qualities it provides. If I were still using a handheld mic, the Q7 would be right at the top of the list, followed by the Sennheiser E855, Shure Beta-57 and bringing up the rear would be the SM-58. I'm sure this will raise some hackles, but the performers that have switched to the Q7 will likely echo my statements.

One other aspect of the problems you are experiencing may be your mic settings. The onboard settings have been posted several times on the forum by DNJ and myself. If you cannot find the post, let me know and I'll repost them.

Good Luck,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Many thanks to scott Yee.

Having come originally from a T1, I set up all my vocal harmonizer settings and overall EQ settings exactly the same when I got the T2.

Although this was OK I didn't think it sounded quite as good as before but it was passable so I accepted it.

When I saw Scott's recent post I didn't know what he was talking about so I went in to the mic setup panel on the T2 and there was the new parameter control on the lower right of the screen set to the default of "normal"

I reset this to lower as I have quite a low male voice (yep very macho that's me - lol) and I couldn't believe the difference. I was then able to boost some of the master lower EQ frequencies without inroducing the "(in)famous" Tyros VH distortion. It was a relevation to me.

I used to use a top of the range TC helicon Voice crystal VH unit with an additional voice modelling card but the Tyros was fine for general use such as gigging and is even better now. You can spend a lifetime fiddling with all the parameters on the TC Helicon.

However, the thing I really miss from the TC Helicon was the 3 "scalar" modes for each minor and major key that you were playing in rather than generating the harmonies the "chordal" or "vocoder" way as this is essential for absoluitely correct duet harmonies such as moving thirds etc.

Thanks again Scott - I'm not sure I would ever have seen the control!!!!

Regards - KF

Gary - I just check on the price of the Q7($89.00 at American Musical)I;m not sure if that is the best price, but it certainly is cheap enough, so I just may give it a try. Thanks for the tip.

Ed

Ed,

That's the best price I've seen on the internet, though a couple months ago Amazon had them for $69 in limited quantities.

Good Luck,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Al,

I really have an interest in purchasing your TC Helicon if you are still interested in selling. Please either email me or give me a phone call(I included my phone number in the email I sent to you).

Thanks - Looking forwarded to hearing from you.

Regards,

Ed

Post an Mp3 song for us using the VOC then I can listen to what your problem is & possibly advise help you better.

I just worked with the best vocal harmonizer anyone could want. About 5'-7", flaming red hair, a body that could wreck your marriage, and the voice of an angel. She was a visitor at an assisted living center I played this afternoon.

God I love my job,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

This is a demo using the G-70's vocal section. There will be more demos coming, so check in now and then and listen for yourself

I have the TYROS 1 and use the TC helicon Voiceworks which is now cheaper and it is great. No breaking up,no static, crystal clear. I use a Shure Beta 87A and no problems whatsoever. I highly recommend it.