Hello everyone
Does any one have experience with using sound modules and an arranger?
What would each device have to have by way of midi.
Specifically, if I wanted to use the sounds from the module for the different tracts of the styles, would I be able to do so using the arranger keyboard, midi and the sound module?

Would I be able to create a style on the arranger using the sounds from the sound module and save the settings so any time I firer up the arranger and module I will get those same settings? If so on which device would I have to save the settings?

Thanks

I actually use a Roland V-drum sound module with my Tyros. Basically I send everything from chanel 10 to the v-drums. The prob is I can't send program changes to the v-drum, and therefore I'm always using the same drum set unless I change it on the mod. Which doesn't bother me much.

I am heavily considering getting the Motif ES rack but there are a number of problems including the fact that on the Tyros (or any arranger I imagine), you cannot send a specific program bank and number (for voices). This would make it impossible to use the keyboard styles on the module. Besides, the keboard styles are programmed with the keyboards instruments. If you'd use a mod, you'd have to retweak all the instruments, volumes, settings, etc - and it probably still would not sound as good.

You would be able to use the mod sounds for your solos (right hand), but you'd have to select the instruments from the mod - not from the arranger.

I'd love to be wrong about this - please let me know if I am.

Chony

Hi,
I tried it a few years back with a couple of my arrangers. Came to the conclusion it wasn't worth the effort. I tried it with a KN3000 & a WSA1 synth ( only synth I think technics made). Also tried it with one of my Roland arrangers ( g800 from memory) tried it with a Roland u220 module with expansion cards.
I just assumed that being a synth, it aught to sound better. Again, wasn't worth the effort. I couldn't get the styles sounding anywhere near as good as the keyboards originals. I ended up using the module & the wsa for melody voices only .

From memory, I think the only way I could get the module to play the arranger's styles was to edit them, so that I got the correct bank & program changes, volumes etc.
Fair bit of work.

You're better off getting an arranger that you're happy with.

I've now gone for a software arranger instead, I'm still busy fooling around with sounds & styles now because I have to, plus it's something I enjoy doing.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by to the genesys:
[B]Hello everyone

I don't know how the Es module will work, but I have some issues with the KB ES and tring to use it as an arranger module. I discussed this with Rikki in this thread:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/010322.html

The discussion is near the end of the thread. This doesn't mean the module will act the same way, but....... just thought you should know.

You could modify any or every style you have to suit any module. You would need to go into the style and change all of the instrument patch and bank data. As Rikki said, that's a bit of work. I use software and have done it several times, and it takes me at least a few minutes per style. Imagine doing a whole kb set...

That's why I look for the best possible GM solution with OMB. At some point I will finish my "supersoundfont", but once it's done I'm set, because I can use OMB in the GM voice mode. Unfortunately, you can't do that with a hardware arranger.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 03-20-2005).]

Not what you wish to do, but I do it the other way around. I use my arranger keyboard as a sound module (KN7000) controlled by a Roland A-37 midi controller (to get 76 keys). The KN responds to chords from the A-37, and so I control the arrangements and I also play the Left voice from the Roland. For the KN Right voices I use the KN keyboard. However I have a Roland XV-5050 sound module which I also control through the A-37 and so I can add some new voices. The A-37 has two midi OUT's which allow this to be set up.
Regards
Keith

Thanks everyone for those responses.

Now, if I were to creat my styles from scrach (takes a lot of time I know but I do it any way), would the module recognize the bank and patch changes?

So for example, if I creat a style on the arranger but using the sounds from the module, should the style with the module sounds be there next time I use that style?

Hi Keith:
using the roland A-37 as a controler for an arranger to get 76 keys was something I was and still am considering. If you wanted to, could you have used the roland A37 with out having to play on the arranger? Could you play the right hand on the roland along with the left hand style part?
Thanks

I don't think this would work on the Yamaha Tyros as you cannot program banks and patches. But if the module would allow you to assign custom patch numbers to its own sounds - that might work. But I doubt they give you this option.

Hi,
I haven't tried doing this type of setup for many years, so my memory is a bit rusty on the subject.
A sound module responds to all sorts of data,
control changes ( volume , panning etc etc) bank ( msb, lsb) & program
changes ( which gives you the correct sounds )
plus sys ex messages. etc etc

Maybe you could try and get hold of a manual of the sound module and check it's specifications. Drum compatibilty can be a bit of a problem, but if you're starting styles from scratch and you're only going to use the module as the sound source then , possibly not a problem.

The main thing you really need to make sure of is that your arranger actually sends out all the necessary information ie program changes, bank changes , volume, panning etc etc. via midi. Also that it transmits all the parts ( tracks ), drums, bass, piano etc etc in note form. One of my very early arrangers (kn800 I think) sent the drums out as some sort of a sys ex message or something, so totally useless.

One way of testing your arranger would be to midi it up to a computer and software sequncer and see what information it sends out over midi.

If I've left anything out , or I've got something wrong, please feel free to jump in & correct me. It's been quite a while since I've bothered trying this with a hardware arranger.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by to the genesys:
[B]Thanks everyone for those responses.

to the Genesys, your query re Right hand control:
I haven't figured out how to do that yet. The arranger keyboard has only one Midi IN socket and I have this transmit and receive on channel 3 (LH on the KN), hence I control the left hand chord and voice only.
I also have a setup where I use the arranger keyboard in Pianist mode and layer its sound with one or more from my sound module, and play the whole thing from the 76 keys, using Midi Channel 1.
Maybe there is a way to get complete control from the controller keyboard but I haven't worked it out yet!
regards
Keith

Further to my earlier comment, maybe the following http://www.midisolutions.com/prodmrg.htm would allow me to take two midi outs (one for KN left hand and one for KN right hand) merge them thru this box and into the KN7000. I presume the Technics keyboard will sort out the messages appropriate for different midi channels?
Keith

..and yet another comment! Finally have the setup I want, that is to control an arranger keyboard from a midi controller with 76 keys. Chord changes and right hand voice all work. I send the two midi OUT's from the controller to a MidiMan Merge box which merges the two signals into one output, which then is sent to the KN7000.
Keith

Hi Keith:
Thats very interesting! Did you have to set any thing on your KN7000? I wonder if I tried that on my Genesys if I will still have to use the MidiMan Merge box because the Genesys has 2 midi in.

Glad to hear it is working for you.

Yes, I do have to set up the KN7000 for Midi. I do it each time as I haven't got around to finding out how to have it automatically preset. My setup on the KN is RH Voice Channel 1, LH voice Channel 3 and Chord Channel 3 with APC ON with Split Point ON.
Regards
Keith