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#154453 - 07/28/02 09:25 PM Playing Music by the Numbers !
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
Using arrangers is more like a "paint by numbers" approach to art.


Interesting analogy and a topic worth exploring. Arranger kbs have a unique place in the world of musical instruments and evolved from the home organ and portable casio keyboard market. The sales pitch was that anyone would be able to 'sound good', with little or no musical experience. Arranger keyboards quickly developed a reputation (by professional musicians) as similar to what 'painting by the numbers' has become in the art world. Home music hobbyists were drawn to them while formally trained musicians looked down on them. Only recently have the pros (finally) begun to take them seriously. 'How' you play the arranger makes the difference between sounding schlocky or sounding professional. By developing your musical knowledge and technical chops and mastering the arranger's unique features, you can create a memorable performance (song) uniquely your own.

Arranger keyboard performance presents challenges different than playing other musical instruments. Foremost, you are the 'conductor' of the band, directing the songs harmonic path via the chords played
(triggered), directing the drummer to lay fills at just the right times, changing the style feel (variations) at appropriate places, and determining & changing orchestral (instrument) setups for each section of the tune. In addition (if you're a singer), applying creative vocal techniques (phrasing, etc) to bring out the lyrics of the song while playing appropriate instrumental fills at just the right time, and triggering backup singers (via vocal harmonizer) to come in and out at just the right moment. It takes skill to make this come off as a tightly orchestrated performance.

To master the art of arranger playing, I find it important to work on improving basic keyboard technique. This includes practing scales (in ALL keys), and practicing-memorizing (basic to advanced) chords & chord voicings (all inversions) in all keys, playing them both chromatally, and as a part of a chord progressions; such as: I-VI-II-V7-I or I-VI - IV - V7 - I (in all keys), working to ensure (using chord
inversions) that the idividual voices of the chord transition progress smoothly (no big interval leaps) going from chord to chord (smooth voice leading). I also recommend soloing (improvising over the chord changes with your right hand (right voice) while practing the chord progressions (left hand). Another good exercise is to play the chord progression with your right hand (piano: right of split) and practice playing bass lines with your left hand (left of split: Bass sound).

The one distinguishing feature of an arranger is its auto-accompaniment styles. It seems the most popular forum topic (second only to talking about the latest model arranger KB offerings) are arranger keyboard 'styles' & 'sounds', both debating which kb has the best, where to obtain them, and converting one brand's styles to anothers. I agree that decent styles & sounds are essential to sounding good, but it's important not to get wrapped up in an endless search for a particular style. As solo musicians, the style should ENHANCE our live performance, NOT the other way around. Frequently I've discovered that using a different style than the one commonly associated with a specific tune offers a fresh approach which is appreciated by my audiences. Be creative, experiment, and take chances, and don't get locked into one specific style for a given song.

Arranger keyboards allow us to easily experiment with interpreting songs. Most arrangers today offer a wide variety & range of styles to cover all genres. Before trolling outside your KB to find that exact style to recreate the song as you remember it on the record, explore the styles internal to the board first, you may surprise yourself and come up with something even more interesting.

I'm interested in hearing more about different arranger specific keyboard playing tips/tricks.

Scott
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#154454 - 07/28/02 11:11 PM Re: Playing Music by the Numbers !
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Scott,
this is a very interesting topic. Personally, since I perform in public only occasionally, I use an arranger as a compositional tool; should I lay down all the tracks manually with my Roland XV 3080, every song would take me two months and the drum track would sound...well, pitiful.
I agree that arrangers are unique, from this point of view, and I consider them like a vault of sounds and styles: that's the reason why I added the SD1 to my VA7: many more useful styles and more sounds to choose from.
Playing an arranger requires a good understanding of how a song is... arranged (no pun intended). Every song has to be built in a specific way and that's way all the arranger have different variations and it's up to you to experiment and to chooce the right variation (and the right instrument) for every section of your song (verse, chorus, bridge, etc).
This is a very interesting subject and one could go on for hours exploring all the aspects involved; for now I will stop here.
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Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#154455 - 07/29/02 02:47 AM Re: Playing Music by the Numbers !
JonPro Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/01
Posts: 89
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Scott,
Good topic. I will come back to it with more meat later on. However for the time being I certainly disagree with ...
Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
Using arrangers is more like a "paint by numbers" approach to art.

Nothing could be further from the truth. But then again, unfortunately this is the perception that arranger keyboards generate out in the real world. Nothing more than a $299 casio k/b. A performer's instrument (?) no way !
This is until the public experiences a real arranger keyboard being "played" to its potential. Then the result is always (my experience here) Wow!! ....Give us more !!!

My point is Uncle Dave has unfortunately stated the never ending sale blurb that will be always with us. It's sooooo easy. Anyone can do it. Its just like painting by ....!
And so the image of the arranger keyboard has to change, and for the better. How does this happen?? Perhaps a few posts on this topic will sow a few seeds.
"like a "paint by numbers" approach to art" bar humbug ! ( )
Jon.

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#154456 - 07/29/02 06:11 AM Re: Playing Music by the Numbers !
Tony W Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 836
Loc: Lancaster UK
Hi all,
Sorry UD but I too cannot agree with your original statement. For as long as I can remember arranger players have been looked down on and been the but of similar comments, usually from people who consider themelves professional musicians. Basically it is just musical snobbery.

I love to play arrangers. I can read music and can play an acoustic piano should the need or inclination arise. I also play guitar. I do not consider that my arranger is any less of an instrument than my guitar or my piano. I do not consider that either instrument requires more or less musicianship to master. Of course they require a different approach depending on which I decide to play but ultimately all are musical instruments and I can either play them or I can't.

If we as arranger players start to believe the cliche's that are all to often thrown at us then we will never be rid of this 'one finger player' nonsense. My father is an acomplished pianist and church organist. I bought him a KN 920 to play on church visits to old folks homes etc. He usually plays it as a straight piano because the arranger part is too much for him to master to a level where he feels confident to play in public. I have rarely heard anyone who can play piano like my dad and yet he admires MY MUSICIANSHIP when I play for him on the arranger.

It can take years to master an arranger keyboard. God knows I have a long way to go....but that is my point. It took me just as long to master the guitar......I spent hours on end as a kid in piano lessons.

Ultimately it is US that are the musicians, the instrument is just a tool. We either make music or we don't. I really don't care what people use to make their music....from paper and comb to concert grand if your audience likes what you are doing then you are a musician. Don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise.

(Think I went off track a bit there )
ttfn
Tony

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#154457 - 07/29/02 06:38 AM Re: Playing Music by the Numbers !
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
An arranger IS a tool for music making, like so many others. Is it a paint by numbers approach ? For me it isn't, ( I learned to play long before I ever considered using an arranger ) but arranger use isn't always the best way for me to compose either. I need help particularly on drums, and having the patterns available is always a timesaver when I'm trying to create with an idea that's in my head. I don't use a " write it in notation first " approach ever, so it's a blessing to be able to start an idea in an arranger. Sometimes the whole thing can be done in the arranger too, esepcially if my particlar tune is geared more toward featuring a vocal performance rather than an instrumental.

We talk of the musical snobbery against arrangers, but I can't escape the feeling that this starts with the manufacturers themselves and filters down to many of the dealers who sell them. Go to a large chain and see what is on the home keyboard side and what is on the "pro" side.. Look at the options available ( expansion boards and the like ) and the after market support ( I'm talking by the manufacturer, not the users ) given to a Triton vs a PA80, a Motif versus a 2000 or even 9000. I'm told that this isn't necesssarily the case at all in europe and other places, but here in the US, unfortunately arrangers are marketed this way.

My "dream" keyboard ( yeah.. like there is such a thing ) would include arranger features and the top end features options of a Triton or Motif. I wonder why there aren't any "arranger function " expansion boards available for a good workstation ...? I'd also love to see a "karma " option available for the Triton series ( a plug in.. not software )
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AJ

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#154458 - 07/29/02 07:09 AM Re: Playing Music by the Numbers !
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
These are all good points, and well taken. I have been using arrangers for about 15 years now, so don't think I am against them. The difference I see, is that I regard the techniques of playing these things, more as mechanics than musicianship.

Let me clarify that. Scott's suggestions for chord studies is right on track. Mastering these skills can provide you with a basis for playing any keyboard instrument, whether automatic or not.
The simplified chord methods will eventually make your brain lazy though, and after a time .... going back to a NON auto keyboard will not be easy.

I use the manual bass so much that it's not a big change for me to switch between instruments, and I DO pride myself as having a good "conductor" sense for drum patterns, fills, etc. so I appriciate the extra "goodies" that the automatic brain adds to my performance. Remember - I am NOT against the technology here. I embrace it. I just want to see kids learn the real instrument too. Not just the easy way.

As to my "paint by numbers" comment ......... I actually enjoy stuff like that, but you have to admit - it's not the same level of creativity as doing it from scratch. Same as "boil-a-bag" cooking or auto-pilot in an airplane. Sure .... you need other talents and skills for when the auto is OFF, but the simple truth is - it's easier with the auto stuff on. I LIKE easy. I think too much of life is hard enough, but I also believe that a true love of playing music can only be enjoyed fully if you know the inside and out of the music. It got to be "hands on" or you miss half the fun.

I won't drag this on much longer, because I'm not trying to debate an issue here. All your views are valid points. My only intent is to get young people interested in learning to PLAY and instrument.
Arranger keyboard playing is not an art in itself - it builds on the art of KEYBOARD playing, and adds the mechanics of control features to the performance. This is a learned skill, for sure and everyone cannot do it, but I need to stress the point that you need to be a musician first before you can make these instruments really sing.

I remember in college - discussing the 4 basic types of musical instruments.
1)Brass
2)Woodwing
3)String
4)Percussion (piano falls into this one)

At that time (in the 70's) electronic organs were not catagorized as a true musical instrument because the sound was produced electronicaly. You don't pluck anythning, or blow anything, or do anything that really CREATES The sound. That was all done by electricity. I suppose in today's music classes, they may allow for a fifth group of intrument - Electronic or Synth ... Some people even think that manipulating a turntable is like playing a musical instrument (but don't get me started ! )

When the day is done - if people are using their hands and their minds and their hearts to create a pleasing sound, then the world is better because of the effort. I have a treasured paint by number oil that my sister did a long time ago, and I love it.
There is a place for all things of beauty, and there will always be room for new ideas and uses of talent.
Please don't let my words discourage anyone from exploring your own talents as far as you can. I am only trying to help.

I was fortunate to have great teachers (Philly union players) in High School that pushed us to levels we never dreamed of. If it wasn't for their guidance - I would never have gotten into Temple as a Music major. My Clarinet teacher whipped my butt into shape in a year and a half. It was intense, but worth every second. The reason I changed over to keys was only for survival - I wanted to sing for my supper, and in those (disco) days .... not too many clarinetists were making a living in my neigborhood. I have no regrets about the change. I like being the conductor and the side men all at the same time now, and I still pull out the old licorish stick from time to time. It's a great way to "humble" myself. You have to play EVERY note to enjoy it. It is very stubborn that way !
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#154459 - 07/29/02 09:47 AM Re: Playing Music by the Numbers !
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
I would like to add something more to my previous posting and say that playing an arranger keyboard is very different from playing an acoustic piano because implies a greater degree of understanding of music composition. With an arranger you are in control of a real orchestra, large or small, and the final result will depend on how you utilize your "sidemen". In other words, when you play a piano you are responsible just for that instrument; when you play an organ you are responsible for the organ and the bass too (if you use the pedals or the bass lower manual); when you play a synthesizer using a brass or a string sound, you are responsible for the brass or the string section and you have to phrase your notes the way a real brass or string section would. And the same goes if you take a solo with a woodwind sound: you cannot phrase the notes on a saxophone the way you would on a piano!
With the arranger, you are responsible for all these parts...plus the drum part! True, you don't play your drums live, but it's up to you to choose a good rhytm (style) and to trigger your fills or your variations at the right time.
It is true that, like any other instrument, an arranger can be played at different levels of proficiency and I agree that the "one finger chord mode" is not the best way to impress those "professional musicians" that look down on arranger players, but the same feature is a blessing for someone who otherwise could never play a keyboard and, thus, entertain his family or his friends.
I am afraid that the arranger image is still tainted from the old Casio days and the association with an "oompa" kind of rhytm, but I am convinced that being able to master an arranger keyboard is a real art, and personally I think that we are only at the beginning of the arranger era.
(So cheer up folks, on this board we are shaping the future of the music industry and of the music business too)
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#154460 - 07/29/02 09:58 AM Re: Playing Music by the Numbers !
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Actually I find that most of the musicians who hear me now, are surprised when they see what I'm playing. Most of them assume I'm playing a synth along with tracks or sequences.
I haven't had anybody look down on what I'm doing in quite some time. Rather, they are interested in the technology, particularly since I'm working and they are in the audience!
DonM
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DonM

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#154461 - 07/29/02 11:04 AM Re: Playing Music by the Numbers !
Mario Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/99
Posts: 380
Loc: Wayside, New jersey, USA
Gentlemen:
Great topic, and you all have been extremely eloquent about it. I'd like to summarize the subject at hand by posing a question. Who do you think gets the most credit/acclaim at the end of symphony orchestra concert?
You guessed it, the conductor!
As an arranger musician I feel as the conductor of, not a live band of musicians, but in complete control of one of the most sophisticated pieces of technology I've seen.
A conductor requires rehearsing with his musicians prior to that concert; similarly, I seat with my KB at home and tell "my band" how I want things done when I am at "my concert". That's why the registrations feature on arrangers is such a wonderful thing; I can be assured that things like volume, tempo, key, etc.. will be perfect at my performance, no surprises! all I will have to worry then is about my "musicianship" which at this point is no different than that of a concert pianist at his performance. Of course, for those of us who sing, things can get even more intricate since I like to memorize the lyrics of every song I play.
So there you have it; Not only you have to be a good musician, a good sound engineer/technician, but also remember words, all at once. To that you can add the "perfection" element we all strive for when performing "live". All this tells me that our line of business is one that can be legitimately characterized as being "a true art form".
To those who think it isn’t, just ask them to sit down with an arranger and ask them to press “start” and see what happens?
Regards,
Mario
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"Music should be heard, not felt. Protect your hearing"
Take a listen to some clips of my latest CD album. Thanks!
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#154462 - 07/29/02 11:10 AM Re: Playing Music by the Numbers !
Zack Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 138
hey. first of all, i enjoyed reading both dreamers and Uncle Daves posts and scottys and all the others. they were very well written. :-) also, i have to say i agree with Dreamer. using an arranger requires you to know how the music should be arranged, as is implied by the name. while doing jobs, i have gotten some rather contemptuous remarks from classical pianists, who thing that all that im doing is hammering out the tune in my right hand. but everyone who knows what really goes into each song has nothing but respect. and i dont so much agree with Uncle Dave, because it is implied from that anology that everything is already laid out there for you to simply pick up and put together. not so by music, and arrangers. the arranger merely provides the tools, the brushes and paint for you to use to create your musical masterpiece. so if anything, i think that arrangers are more sophisticated and more artsy than piano, for example. thats my opinion. feel free to bash it, if you will. :-) Zack

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