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#153520 - 09/14/04 09:16 AM Re: Any help to sing better on pitch?
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by FAEbGBD:
Why are horns in such stupid keys? Why can't all horns be in C? !


The reason is because it aids the reading of printed music. The different sizes of instruments produce different sounds within the audio spectrum, and the Tuba, Trombones etc would be playing notes so far below the staff that the leger lines would be too confusing to read. The same goes for Clarinets and flutes ...... too HIGH up on the staff.

The only reason for the different keys was for reading music. The strings even have clefs that many wind players never heard of.
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#153521 - 09/14/04 09:55 AM Re: Any help to sing better on pitch?
FAEbGBD Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
Well, since I don't read printed music, I guess I never thought of that. That being said, couldn't C still be C? What key is a tuba in? isn't it in C? Even if it were in Bb, are you gaining that much having an instrument in Bb instead of C as far as reading music goes?

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#153522 - 09/14/04 01:13 PM Re: Any help to sing better on pitch?
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by Mosiqaar:

Also Scottyee I tried a couple of those programs but they all seem geared towards training your ear to catch the right note. Is there a program that will train you to HIT the right note?


Hi Mosiqaar,

Good question. A few years back, I used an excellent 'ear training' software made especially for singers, called "Claire", which analyzes the pitch you sing (via micrphone into the computer) and helps develop your ability to hit requested note pitches (as well as short vocal phrases) 'right on'. I was amazed how it was able to catch pitch inaccuracies only a minute amount off pitch. This software is (was?) only availabe for the Mac platform. Here the only link I could find for it: http://www.auburn.edu/time/Claire

It would be great if there were a PC platform version of this (or similar) software out there. Anyone know?

Scott
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#153523 - 09/14/04 01:24 PM Re: Any help to sing better on pitch?
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
With the brass instruments, it's more of a question of physics and the harmonic overtone series.

The basis overrtone series can be played on a bugle with no valves. It starts with a tonic note, then a fifth above that, then an octave, then a third, etc ..... much like teh drawbars on an organ. Drawbars duplicate the overtone series. (This must be printed somewhere.)

As it goes higher and higher, the notes become closer to chromatic than they are in the low registers. So, the overall tone and characteristic of a Bb tuba must have something to do about the way it handles the harmonic overtone series.

There is a limited number of C melody saxes floating around and they are HORRID. Some genious thought that it would be easier to read fake books, but the tonal change was too great. Just as with all things acoustical : SIZE MATTERS.
( only acoustical, now )

Tuba's BTW are in Bb.
It's all about tone color. There is a Bb and an A clarinet, just for those really hard keys. Serious orchestra players need them, but most casual players don't.

For many people, C is not the easiest to play in anyway. It certainly isn't the most comfortable fingering on a piano keybed, that's for sure. Brass players tend to prefer sharp keys, while wind players seem to handle the flat keys better. There are only 12 keys, so it can't be THAT hard to get cozy with more than just one, huh?
If you always play in the same key, you'll probably get carpal tunel (sp?)too.
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#153524 - 09/14/04 01:31 PM Re: Any help to sing better on pitch?
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by The Accordionist:
Problem is, I had to register C in my head and then mentally go up the scale to get F. I imagine real perfect pitch people could just immediately produce the F.


Quote:
Originally posted by drdalet:

This is actually what most people who are supposed to have perfect pitch do..


A person with 'perfect pitch' doesn't have to first register C in their head. They just know the exact pitches of ALL 12 notes in the scale as well as the octave they fall in. In other words, if a person with perfect pitch were taken into a room with a piano (blind-folded), and you just play ONE note for them, they would be able to easily recognize & name the exact note you played. The method of registering C in your head first, and then mentally going up F is using 'relative pitch'.

My former voice coach, Judy Davis:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/01/31/MNL1260 03.DTL

had me purchase a 'pitch fork' tuned to concert A or C & carry it around and listen to as many times during the day. To this day, even though I don't have perfect pitch, I do have concert A & C pitch solidly in my head now, and can identify any other (12 semi-tone) notes of a scale by recognizing the interval relationships between C & other note(s) heard. This method of pitch recognition is referred to as: 'Relative Pitch' recognition, and important skill that ALL musicians need to develop. Tommy, whether you have perfect pitch or use relative pitch skills, pitch recognition is an essential skill that ALL musicians need to learn and to keep honed. - Scott. Here are the basic intervals that all musicians should be able to easily recognize (both ascending & decending):

Unison
Minor 2nd
Major 2nd
Minor 3rd
Major 3rd
Perfect 4th
Tritone (flatted fifth or augmented 4th)
Perfect 5th
Minor 6th
Major 6th
Minor 7th
Major 7th
Octave


To help with interval memorization, here's a link to songs that contain these intervals (first two notes of the melody):
http://www.people.vcu.edu/~bhammel/theory/resources/macgamut_theory/songs_interval_recognize.html

Have fun.


Scott
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#153525 - 09/15/04 02:21 PM Re: Any help to sing better on pitch?
TyrosOwner Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 17
Loc: Carbondale, IL
Thought I'd add my two cents worth in.

I believe there are VERY few people that have perfect pitch across all 12 notes and multiple octaves. Most people are stronger in certain ranges and pitches or even depending on what instrument is producing the pitch.

Typically it gets harder and harder, at least for me, the lower the pitches are. I have much more difficulty picking out pitches in low bass lines and they start to run together. In middle and upper registers there are many notes I can recognize immediately but some are more ellusive.

I also have difficulty when there is lots of distortion or effects on the notes. So some guitar lines I struggle to learn because my ear has more difficulty in isolating the pitch.

I personally believe everyone can improve their ear as long as there is not an actual physical defect. Just like most anything else some people have a natural talent (or perhaps an unnatural talent) and others have to work much harder for the same results.

Even though I don't have true perfect pitch I really messed myself up playing with my synth tuned down a half step for about 3 months. I was playing with a rock band whose singer benefited from the half step drop. I didn't even realize how messed up my ear had gotten until I picked up my guitar and everything just sounded so wrong. Never again will I play transposed for any length of time because it messes up your mind to play one chord and hear another. Eventually your brain just starts to accept those as the true chords.

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