So the rumours where right... On the German Korg site the PA2X Pro is announced.

Check: http://www.korg.de/

PS: it's displayed on the homepage. If the picture is not shown, just wait till it comes up in the slideshow. I think it looks pretty good by the way.

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Tom NL

Great Find Tommy!....looks like a winner for sure....Korg is really addressing the needs of musicians.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHH
the more I saw the more my checkbook vibrated
the last Korg I bought is the M3R with the Remote Editor RE1 which I still have
Maybe it is time to upgrade.
Thanks for this find. Keep us posted as more info turns up.
Best to you,
Bebop

To allow us a longer & more detailed look, I took the liberty of creating the below screen capture "stills" of the German website's impressive PA2Xpro video:

- Scott

Thank you Tom for the find and Thanks Scott for the great still photos.
Ciao,
Jerry

Yes!! A tilt-able Touch Screen. I've been wanting that on the G70 forever! (I hope it is well braced in the back, though, for us clumsy pokers!)

I like the Korg's layout a bit better than the G70's... Having the sliders off center allows the keyboard to be not so deep, which probably shaves some off the weight.

But having the dual sequencer controls front and center shows what Korg think many of it's player's priorities are going to be, IMO...

But a very nice looking board.... Now, where's the Chord Sequencer?

Hmmmm....

.... could this news be even more exciting & interesting than the Audya?
Looking forward to more detailed specifications.

Happy Playing
GJ

Or the New ROLAND?

Considering the fact that, following my repeated requests, Korg finally "came on board" with 'Rootless Chord' voicing recognition (first introduced on the PA1X pro), there's promising hope that they'll LISTEN to your request for the Chord Sequencer too. Sure doesn't hurt to ask. - Scott

I must say that this one has picqued my interest too.

Scott
You sure made it easier to see. When you are not distracted by petty quibling, you make solid contributions to us all.

Thank you
Bernie

Hi Bernie, I agree I certainly would have more time to devote to this kind of thing, if only I didn't have to constantly dodge bullets & thread hijackers. Btw: how'z your music doing? I fondly remember our Florida SZ jam playing music with you and Harry Babcock. It's was all about the joy of making music together.

Scott

Well, based on the specs I think that the PA2X is not as innovative (is that proper English?) as the Ketron Audya, but the whole package does look very promising. I noticed that Korg seems to have replaced the double midi sequencer with a double MP3 recorder/player. It will undoubtedly also play midi files, but for the pro's this must be a very helpful feature to have on board as standard.

Do you think that the "Real Experience" sounds are somewhat of an equivalent to the Yamaha's Super Articulation sounds?
I do like the "pro" looks by the way, with the clean no-nonsense layout and what seems to be a wood finish on the side panels.

Scott, thank you for adding the photo's!

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Tom NL

[This message has been edited by Tom NL (edited 09-15-2007).]

Is that a Tyros stand it sits on in the second picture?

Scott,

Thank you for posting these photos that you found on arrangerworld.com which I snapped off of the German Korg site. Just another example of the type of information we hope to provide to the arranger community.

Regards,
Al www.arrangerworld.com

To allow us a longer & more detailed look, I took the liberty of creating the below screen capture "stills" of the German website's impressive PA2Xpro video:

- Scott

Hmmmmm......with the floppy drive?

Hi Al. I actually didn't find these on arrangerworld at all, but used my screen capture utility program: SNAG-IT , to create screen capture "stills' from the http://www.korg.de/ link TOM NL provided. If I had found these or similar pics posted on your site, I would have certainly credited you. That said, mine are relatively lo resolution, so if the pics at your site are of higher resolution (providing more detail/clarity), it might be nice if you can share a link to yours. Thanks. - Scott

Well I for one am relieved, having just bought the PA1-X Pro, I feared I had bought too early (I really needed a new board urgently though).

I may be jumping the gun here, but if the following basic upgrades are true:

256 Meg Ram Sampling
Tilt Screen
Mp3 Dual player recorder

...then I don't feel the need to upgrade just yet!

The only idea I would love is the tilt screen.

The rest - well nice but hardly necessary.

Don't forget 128 voices... Pretty important, considering how layered you can make the voices...

Just the PA800 (Oasys) piano is worth the leap, IMO...

Hmmmm..well I haven't run into ANY dropouts just yet, but it IS early days....

I think what people have mentioned before is 62 note Poly for the Korg (PA1X) is plenty considering they use only 2 oscillators per voice (average) and apparently have a clever note assigning algorithm that keeps things in check.

I'm with Hellboy44. The way I use the arranger, none of those "upgrades" would affect me. Now if they added some new "factory grade" styles and made them available to the PA1x crowd, I'd be happy. Diki, how many voices can you layer before it starts to sound like fecal matter. I've also never had a problem with dropout.

chas

I know it's early, becuase no one has heard the board yet, but I still remember all the boo hoos about the disconnect between the fills and the styles on the PA800. I wonder if this was ever an issue with the PA1X... and if it was, will it carry over to the 2X?

We both must be fast on the "Draw" (Pun Intended), no harms no fouls, great work!

Peace, brother.

Regards,
Al www.arrangerworld.com

2nd generation boards are always exciting because the Manu. get's to fix the fundemental flaws in their keyboards.

I'm anxious to know if they have the Oasys sound engine on the New PA2x, how are their "SA" voices, and what type of style make up solution they have included.


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Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland SPD-S.

Some more information on the Korg Hungary site (of all places). There are two great high res pictures here. The upper half of the top surface seems to have a white (metallic) finish.... I don't know what to think of that, but I am quite sure it won't effect the way it sounds .

The official specs are also here, but all in Hungarian.... Can't make much of that.

I stumbled upon the link when I searched for news on the PA2X on the Korgforums.

Tom.

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Tom NL

It seems that the PA2X is simply a repackaged PA800 and the PA800 was a PA1X with better poly and sampling ram. The only significant difference other than that was the introduction of the guitar mode which was really the only innovation between the PA1X and PA800 . Just who exactly needs a motorised display screen ?????????? Just an adjustable one would have done nicely.

Does anyone have any info on how long it will take to load 512mb of ram into the new PA2X ? That could be really significant in terms of its useability in live use but simply wonderful in the studio .

For those with the PA1X and PA800 there is little need to change unless you really need the extra sampling ram and 76 keys. I know the PA800 and the PA2x are supposed to have a new sound engine but in all honesty , i cant hear the difference to the old technology. I challenge anyone to close their eyes and tell me if they can hear a difference between them. And I have listened carefully.

The problem for Korg is that they made a ground breaking and outstanding instrument in the PA1x and they have now simply run out of ideas !!!

PS for those that are keen on selling up or dipping into their savings for this "new " Board please ask yourselves why you did not purchase the PA1X pro or PA800 ?? If you did not like either of those and you dont do a lot of sampling (I dont know anyone on this board other than myself that uses an arranger this way ) then think hard about the wisdom in this purchase.Better to buy a PA1Xpro or elite version 3 as it will be so much cheaper and will have vertually the same capabilities , styles and sound quality.

You can be certain that any new styles in the PA2X will become available in the PA1X and PA800 within the next few months

[This message has been edited by Spalding 4 (edited 09-18-2007).]

It seems that this PA2X is based on the PA800 technology, but hey isn't that what all manufacturers do? In this case they introduced the PA800 first and now the model with 76 semi-weighted keys, no speakers and some pro-features like the MP3 player with transpose function (like the Audya) and 40Gb harddisk. I agree that PA800 owners will not likely be tempted to go for the PA2X unless 76 keys is a must. The same goes for Yamaha: S900 owners will probably not pay the extra bucks for the Tyros2 (almost double the price of the S900). I'm not defending Korg (I have a Roland G70 BTW) but just stating the facts.

By the way, I also agree with you that a motorised display seems a bit over the edge. I would have chosen to invest those bucks in something else (chord sequencer perhaps ).

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Tom NL

[This message has been edited by Tom NL (edited 09-18-2007).]

Hi,

for those of you interested in a Pa1X <-> Pa2X comparison you can click
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27865&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

for a list from a german demonstrator.

Regards.

And the same German demonstrator - Jürgen Sartorius - has made this comparison table:

Comparison KORG PA800 PA2X Tyros2

From this we can learn that the Korg Pa2X is basically a Pa800 with more keys (76 instead of 61), more sample memory (256 mb instead of 64 mb), and more sliders (9 instead of 2). But it wont have the great built-in speakers of the Pa800.

Kind regards,
Tommy

I have not heard the PA2x but I have heard the PA800, and the voices (Providing you have OS 1.5 or above) do stand out above the PA1x, with most voices matching or bettering the Yamaha SA Voices.
I personally however would not recommend going from a PA1x to a PA800, as while you do get extra performance features and better sounds, the amount of features you loose from the PA1x makes this a false economy.
The PA2x on the other hand (which appears to be based on the PA800) should really be a force to be reckoned with, particularly as the PA1x is already a cracking board.
Just my thoughts

Bill

No one above mentioned much about 76 keys. Isn't that on the most wanted list for most arranger players (including me). Korg is probably reading this thread and thinking "we can't please anyone".

I am tempted by this new Korg - it may be the next one - i have a Roland G70 but as guarantee has run out that;s a good excuse to spend some pennies . Also i like the flash memory for storing samples - interested in totaltransformation theatre organ samples amongst others - are the demos on that site for real? thy sound way above even the atelier 90s . Good to see they have doubled the polophony of the Pa1X . I am disappointed in the songbook (according to PA800 manual which i believe this pro model is loosely based on) only having "some 100" factory presets included - the equivalent tyros / roland have many hundreds . I have my usual 3 yearly £1000 to spend (never budge pass that limit if i can help it!) in p/x so will probably have to wait some time before price gets within reach..

If the G80 or Tyros 3 is imminent then they better hurry , a lot of people could go for the Korg as they are the quickest to bring out a new pro keyboard, and it's been quite a while now..

[This message has been edited by tony harbour (edited 09-19-2007).]

Well, in case Korg should read this thread: This is just the keyboard I have been waiting for! I had the PA800 in my house for a few days and although I was very much impressed by it's sounds and features, I returned it because I quickly learned that I was spoiled by having the 76 keys and the superior keyfeel of the Roland G70. I did try the PA1X-Pro, and also liked the keyfeel on that, but thought it would be a step back in technology in comparison to the G70.

I also like the clean-cut, stylish looks and the extra features it adds to the PA800 technology besides the 76 keys, like the harddisk and MP3 player. So yes, I will demo it as soon as it hits the store and will most likely end up buying one (and selling my G70 for it).

I don't think it's a fair comparison to ever put a "slient slab" up against a "speaker box" keyboard.
I believe the buyers who prefer either .... have specific reasons for that preferance.

In my buying decisions, a G70 or T2 is not even considered in the same trip with a PA800 or an s900. It's a separate animal to me. Sure, they all live at the same zoo, but they belong in different cages.
(too many animal refs?)

Just saying ...... PA800 buyers are not neccisarily candidates for a PApr2x-whatever, even with more keys. ) IF that's something you like. For me - it's a negitive)

I did try the PA1X-Pro, and also liked the keyfeel on that, but thought it would be a step back in technology in comparison to the G70.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Huh?

He said..
"I did try the PA1X-Pro, and also liked the keyfeel on that, but thought it would be a step back in technology in comparison to the G70."

If this had come out in u.s. 6 months ago it would have been a no-brainer for me. but now i have to consider that I've been into the E60, working with a "less is more" attitude, and i'm not sure i want to spend double what i paid for the E60 for a keyboard that is 11 lbs heavierand lacks speakers..just to have more sounds/styles and a much better os. I do see a dichotomy brewing here between those who see themselves as arranger-entertainers for whom features, features, and more features within 61 keys seems most desired..and those with a more musician/performer image placing value the 76 keys and semi-weighting. it's not a sharp dichotomy, there is overlap, but it is seeming to go that way. for the 2nd group, only the lack of speakers would disadvantage the pax2 to the pa800..they would go for the pax2 even if it had not iota of improvement over the pa800--because of the 76 and keybed.

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Miami Mo

I guess the speaker thing is about whether you envision yourself ever playing a gig where the built in speakers WOULD be adequate...

Personally, I can count on one hand the number of times that any arranger's sound system would be clean enough and loud enough to project in the rooms I play in my gigs. Add to that a home studio system built around some really decent studio monitors (Mackie HR824's at the moment) and the only thing that built in speakers would do for me is add even MORE weight!

I would be curious to know what percentage of working players here don't have to use additional speakers at gigs... Damn few, I'd wager. Once you get up into that $3000+ range, it seems a false economy to play an arranger of that price through the decidedly inferior internal speakers. Inferior, at least to the kind of externals that anyone with that kind of cash to spend could afford.

You just bought the best TOTL arranger that money could buy (Wersi excepted!)... Now you are going to play it through 3" or 4" speakers? Even home users (especially home users, I would say, as they are not transporting their keyboard all the time!) can realize a HUGE improvement in sound going to a decent pair of studio monitors, rather than built-ins.

Mid-line and budget, I really CAN see the need (still mostly financial), but to play a TOTL through little speakers doesn't really do it justice (or your audience)...

Hi Uncle Dave,
have to agree, I bought my PA800 only a few days ago, fully aware PA2x would be coming out sooner or later. They even had details on the website.
Don't need the 76 keys, & like having onboard speakers.
I like it's portability.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
[B]
Just saying ...... PA800 buyers are not neccisarily candidates for a PApr2x-

Diki
I have to agree you. The speakers on the PA800 sound great, with plenty of bottom and volume. The problem is that the sound still seems to localized.

I will take my Bose everywhere, I guess.

it's NOT about playing a gig with the onboard speakers, i'd be surprised if there were any out there that do that--it's just about having them as a convenience. when i'm just practicing or trying out different features, etc. there's no need to plug into a home studio unless i want to really hear it that way. i can take my kb out to my barn in ct when it's warm and practice there..i can move from one room to another, i can take it to another musicians' house to work out some things w/o an amp. (these are all advantages of a lightweight keyboard as well. Furthermore, if the onboard speakers have adequate power, as the E60's do..and the Korg..they serve as personal monitors on the gig in intimate situations and no other monitoring is needed.

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Miami Mo

No one has mentioned the Balanced outputs?? I believe that is a first and something that has been wanted here for some time. Yes?

Hi,

yes the audio connectivity, with balanced in/out and digital out, is first class, no doubt.

Best regards.

The idea of on board speakers for me is to serve as a monitor ... no matter what position I need to be in to serve the room's needs. Sometimes the PA is not in optimal listening range for me, so the KB is my monitor. Since using the Bose ( 2 yrs or so, now )it's less of an issue, but there are still plenty of times that I only use the on board speakers. Nursing homes, cocktail hours, (some small)house parties ...etc
Speakers are a must in my rig. That's why I can't even compare models that do not offer them. They loose at the gate.

Dave: I also always have a need for my own monitor. I have just resolved that with a T2 it's a requirement. It wouldn't ax out a pa2x from consideration for me.

Yup, I'm spoiled...no matter how loud or soft the main room needs to be .. I have my "perfect mix" right in my face where I can be the most attentive to it. Since the Bose reproduces teh sound so well....I never have to worry about what the crowd hears, because i KNOW it's right !

Do many of the speakered arrangers have separate control for speaker volume vs. line out volume?

I can see how the arranger's speakers might be useful as a monitor, but if you wish to turn it up or down, does that effect the main outputs, too?

I can see the whole point for a solo act, but as I primarily play with others (who DI too) i would need the arranger's speakers to play the main board monitor send, not just the internals (or I got to lug monitors as well, sort of defeating the point, once again)...

Be nice if there was a dedicated 'in' to arranger's speakers that bypassed the arranger...

Hi Diki
All Wersi instruments have at least 3 outputs, 1 of which is normally also used for the internal speakers, however all can be independently switched (Using the output mixer) to be controlled by the speaker volume or not. (As with all keyboards each output has its own independent EQ, Reverb, Balance etc)
Hope this helps

Bill

Diki and Bill, this is an interesting point i had not thought of before. the separate control is a great idea, to be able to use the kb controls for external level as well as internal. the Wersi is a very expensive option. I may be wrong, but i know of no other units in the price range most of us here buy at that has this option, and it wouldn't seem to be that expensive for the manufacturer to add to their higher-end units with speakers. However, Diki, the fact that there isn't that option now doesn't make using the internals as monitors useless. You still have to control your board separately now, no? and would have to use separate dial or slider for main and monitor adjustments..so you can just turn up the internals and turn down the main or vice versa..still 2 controls.

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Miami Mo

The MS have 4 Stereo Outputs full hardware controlled by Sliders Volumes control and relatve Mute/Unmute.

MAIN OUT XRL: where the sounds engine are routing to this output for the Main powered Loudspeakers.
Monitor/Cue XRL: another Stereo out where you can routing the same Main outs for your own powered monitor Loudspeakers.
Phones: another stereo out where you can routing the all desidered sounds engine.
MIx Out 2: are another 2 jack mono Outs where you can routing what ever you like.

In the 2 Players, we have also the key CUE function, when is selected ON, you can pre listen "cue" one song in another different outputs, like the Phones, Monitor or Mix Out 2.
In realtime with the other 4 slider and ON/OFF key, you can manage the all Audio how you like, or like one DJ mixer console too.

Ha ha I had a client come up & say to me this weekend "Im glad you got rid of that "POLE THING" (Bose PAS )....these sound so much better" refereeing to my Mackie SRM450's.... www.mackie.com

Honestly I enjoyed the Bose for a while but all those pieces (4pc) to set up & carry & unzipper & squeeze back into (4pc)covers annoyed me too much for a mono system.

i have never used the L1 but have listened to 3 bands using it and i preferred the sound they had before they started using it. i have heard negative audience and event promoter comments as well. i know one event coordinator who told a folkie that if he brought back that pole to the next week's street fair he was fired. i'm sure it must have its good points, as i have read raves from musicians who use it and love it. but maybe it's not as great for those on the other side of the stage? dunno, just asking. anyone use it who had decent equipment before who got fedback from the same audience they liked it better?

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Miami Mo

Mo l3ets face it its a great sound system for what it was designed to be used for ....
"Personal Audio System" .....its was hijacked and made to be used for more then that bands squeezing into one pole 2 subs & beyond...pushing power thru it beyond its capabilities etc, etc, & other non designed traditional uses....which is fine ....
but it has its limits....I tried it , I sold it, I just prefer TOTL powered speakers for my needs like Mackie, Yorkville, EV. Let your ears be your guide NOT your wallet

I'm wondering how many bought L1's based on going to someone's gig and hearing them and saying wow, that sounds so great i have to get me one...and how many bought one because of what the reviews said or forum members said or what the theoretical advantages seemed to be-- and then were committed to loving them after laying down so much cash (and they certainly have their good points). Maybe it's something like the study they did of vodka drinkers who swore adoration of Grey Goose or Ketel-1 or some other preemie brand, but in a blind taste-off could not distinguish the brand they were so convinced was far superior in taste to a low-price brand. Maybe the L1 doesn't really sound all that great as the musicians who buy them say they sound. I would like to hear from audiences who love them and bookers who love them. so far I myself have not been impressed, people i know who listen are not impressed, and a couple of promoters i know don't like them at all. what's happening here? Where's the' emporer's clothes?

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Miami Mo

Hi Miami Mo
I have heard them many times, (Mainly 2 used in stereo) as have others and the views are mixed, however one thing I have noticed is that those that take time to set up the speakers for the venue and adjust them during the performance (Bose supply remotes) to suit the music, make them sound totally superb,. (Forget your Makies etc, they sound like castrated dogs) but those that do not set them up correctly, make them sound like a wind up gramophone horn with a sock stuffed in it. (The Bose are more critical of setup then standard type speakers)
Interesting topic

Bill

www.mackie.com

man I'm glad I sold my Bose Pas biggest waste of money for an overated mono sound system....a simple A/B with 2 Mackie SRM 450's & a SWA1501 would confirm this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

this is getting interesting--too bad it's way at the end of a thread about the new pa2x and more people, including bose fans, aren't reading it and chiming in

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Miami Mo

I thought the Bose L1 sounded pretty weak...and it's MONO...

Wasn't it originally designed for the solo vocalist/guitarist...seems to be prominently featured in their promotions?

Does nothing for an arranger, IMO.

Give me two powered speakers in stereo any day.

Ian

We just parked our Mackie system in favor of the L1 mod II and Tone Match. This system is like having a HiFi System in a Venue.

Anyone sanding within 180 degrees of the "pole" hears EXACTLY the same sound including the wife and I. Stereo is not needed because its only good for those who are in the middle of the speaker array. The rest get an unbalanced sound.

The Mackies were LOUD. The Bose PAS is musical.

Those who sat on the sides received the sound bouncing off a wall floor or ceiling. The Bose are direct to 180 degrees and no ceiling or floor reflections. The most amazing thing is the clarity.

Set up and Strike takes 10 minutes, The Tone Match has preset scenes for different venues and players who may join us. It was the best $3000 we ever spent on our gig. AND the best part is when you go to sell it you don't lose much. They sell on Ebay for 3/4 of their retail value because they are not discounted at all by the dealer agreements keeping the value up.

That all said I am still trying to decide between the Yamaha and Korg........

Ian I gotta agree with you....many people have to justify teh $3000.00 they spend sometimes forcing the brain to believe its worth it over other great systems......the Bose has its place ....but not for me ....I'm glad I sold mine & will not look back again.

Well said, I beleive a perfect balance, would be to add a horn or some type of direct speaker to a Bose to get that "loud" effect.

All major sized venues use Line array set-ups which is what the Bose is a minature version of.

I love a great sound system, I do not like just loud, if you can make it musical and a decent volume I'm all for it.

BTW I have 4 of the double bass packages, for when I play solo, duet and up to 8 piece, the set-up time is great, the monitoring is great, the coverage is amazing.

But there are times when that "loud" factor is needed or missed, I guess nothing is perfect, just depends on each situation

Having a few different systems Frank to mix & match is a great way to go, no two rooms are the same......they are all just more tools in the box

What if you don't want to fill the room with sound?

In some venues, patrons who do not want to listen to the music, or prefer it at a lower volume, can sit further away from the speakers.

This is not possible with the Bose system.

It's not for everyone...and certainly not for those who like to play in stereo.

Ian

DNJ, When you HAD one you could not shout its praises loud enough. It was the best pa system EVER and you would never need anything else again.
DonM

Don....yes I did at that time it was ok....but after a few months & various gigs is where the truth lies.......I never said it was bad ...I said it wasn't for me & my setup & transport tolerance & needs at my gigs.....so I went in another direction that suited me better.....the BOSE PAS is NOT the "answer all" issue sound reinforcement gear for sure.....on a 1-10 scale I give it a strong 7 1/2. Hey if it works for whomever ...more power to ya!

To people who claim those who bought the Bose are committed or have to live with them do not realize you have 45 days to "uncommit" yourself if you do not like them. Thats a lot of gigs. Try returning SRM450's to Mackie after a month and a half. Bose service is extremely personalized and they are very helpful in solving issues. The cost is high. The resale is fantastic and the service is unlike any manufacturer.

The sound is as good as the operator as in all cases.