Hello people!
this is my first post on this Forum, and I'm happy I finally found a great Forum for keyboards and synth enthusiasts and professionals.Ok, I'll come to the point.
I'm in the process of renewing my Studio gears, specifically I am in need of a new arranger. I use to have a Technics KN-3000 that i just sold on eBaay (got a great deal )
I would prefer getting a rack based board, but given there are not a lot (actually there is pobably none) rack based arrangers from Yamaha or Technics (the only one I could find was teh Solton K-4 but seems to be an older model) I am debating between the KN-2600 or the PSR 2100.

Can anyone of you that used both keyboards, recommend the best one between the two?

I write songs and compose contemporary music so I need something that is versatile and has a lot of new sounds and styles. My KN-3000 was getting old on that matter.

KN-2600 vs. PSR 2001 .... Why should I get one or another? How do they compare on sounds and arrangment styles? do they both have USB connectivity for Audio recording? (Digital Audio OUT)

please tell me anything you feel is inportant in order for me to make this decision. also... where is the best plae online (best prices and shipping) to go for getting either keybs?

Thanks so much!
I am looking forward to get your opinions and reccomendations. I would like to get the new board next week, so I would really appreciate if you could send the comments


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Cheers,

M.C.GATTO

M.C. Welcome to the forum! You'll like it here.
There has been a lot of discussion on the merits of the 2100 and 2000, which are virtually the same. As I recall, there was even some comparison between it and the Technics KN2600. You might try the search engine to retrieve this information.
I think you'll end up choosing the Yamaha.
Ketron does make an excellent arranger module, comparable to the latest keyboards. I'm sure someone will chime in with a description of it, although traffic is usually quite slow on Sunday.
DonM

M.C. GATTO welcome to the SynthZone Forum. You've come to the right place for finding info on Arranger Keyboards.

Ketron makes a Module in the XD3 and the X4. The XD3 focuses mainly on Accordian type sounds and it would be a great Module if you play[ed] the Accordian. There are other sounds on it of course. It has 64 note Polyphony, 32 Multitimbral, Live Drum Kits, etc. It does 'NOT' have a Digital Output. The X4 also has 64 note Polyphony plus you can add SIMM Memory to expand the Sequencer's recording note[s] limit. It is also 32 Multitimbral. I noticed Ketron's web site does not have a Brochure in English so I translated the Italian Brochure for you. Here is the translation of the X4 Module:

"X4 comes installed l?unità Vocalizer (optional), one of the two microphones can control l?unità Vocalizer while l?altro it can work normally: situation this ideal for a duetto. The Vocalizer é endowed a professional Harmonizer to 3 Voices of un?ampia range of the 16 completely programmabili vocal effects all?interno of Vocal Sets available: Trio, Duet, Unison, Harmony, Vocoder, Falsetto, Baby, Alien, Gorilla, Mickey Mouse, Rapper and many others. L?effetto can be assigned is to the section Song that all?Accompagnamento automatic rifle, for which function Vocalize to Arranger is previewed also l?utilissima that allows to assign various vocal effects to the several sections dell?Arranger. The Vocalizer interprets all correctly the Midifiles programmed with Vocalist trace, with the possibility to block interested the Midi Channel all?harmonizer. The Vocalizer card concurs moreover one separate equalization for the direct Microphone and l?effetto harmonizer, with controls of Filter to 3 bands (Low, Mid, Hi), Pan/Pot, Frequency, Resonance, Formant, Riverbero and Delay. The Simm inner Ram dell? Structured X4 é on two sections separated from 8 Mbyte ciascuna, one for the Sampling and l?altra for the premanifactured Sound Banks of the Bookcase for Ketron X4, X1 and X8. The Sampling section is connected all?Ingresso of the microphone of the instrument and concurs a sampling of 16 professional quality with Bit and 44.1 KHz. The champions, in Wav format, can be editati and therefore Sound personalized Library saves sull?Hard Disk to you in such way to create one. L?editing previews advanced functions of Loop, Reverse, ADSR, Filter, Shift, Tune Aim and allocation Effects. With function MSP (Multisampling) Splits can be defined until 8 new Program Changes every compound from 32 multiple Samplings until. PROGRAMMABILITÀ BEEN LEFT OVER the Ketron X4 is equipped of a powerful Sequencer from 36.000 notes/16 Traces (expandible to 300.000 notes with 4Mb of Simm), that it allows to create sequences originates them or to copy and to modify preesistenti sequences or Midifiles. They can be programmed in the inner memory until 99 Patterns (198 if it comes installed optional l?Espansione 2Mb Flash), with recording of the single parts in real time or via Midi and with sophisticated functions of Editing much. The section of the 128 User Voice also allows to editare all Sounds PCM, Analogic and FM of the instrument for means of several functions which ADSR, Filter, Volume, Shift, Resonance and new and personalized LFO in order to create sonorità. Programmabile section for the Drum Sets with the new 4 possibility exists moreover one to create until User Drum Sets (in adding to the 20 Drum Sets inner). COMPUTER L INTERFACE? X4 is equipped of a taken Computer Interface which concurs to connect the computer instrument also (PC, Mac). Through an optional cable and a specific Software to install on the computer, the X4 is in condition for sending and for receiving regarding information the Midi and all the others files of management of the instrument which Styles, Programs, Registrations, User Voices etc. Moreover such connection can serve in order to carry out on computer one copy of backup of the data dell?Hard inner Disk dell? X4. CONCLUSIONS our objective is that one to always create the best instrument possible in order to make music, thanks to un?instancabile search in the sound and one particular attention to the necessities of the solisti musicians. L? X4, we are convinced some, constitutes a meaningful step in ahead in the field of the contemporary Arranger modules and it will not lack sure to offer new, stimulating emotions to all it gets passionate interpreters to you of music from the alive one. Functions keyboard Polifonia Sound Source User Voices Sound Card (optional) Sound Ram Factory Styles Stiles Custom Drum Mixer User Drum Set"

They do have an English 'Manual'. Here is the link to the main Arranger page. You may have to scroll to get to the X4. Click on the "Manual" link to bring up the Window for downloading it. You will need a PDF Reader on your Computer, eg., Adobe Acrobat, to open and read the Manual file. Here is that link: http://www.ketron.it/prodotti/index.asp?idTipo=2 PS: I have no idea what the X4 costs.

As to the PSR 2100 and the Technics KN2600, I have played both personally and both are good Keyboards. Both have 64 note Polyphony. The Technics uses SD Memory, ie., "Secure Digital" Memory on the KN2600 which is a good feature to have for saving your Recordings, Midi's, etc. The sounds on the KN2600 are pretty good. Some of the Organ sounds are a little weak 'thin' but overall the sounds are fairly decent. Although the internal Speakers on the KN2600 have more 'Watts' of power they actually do not sound as good as the PSR 2100's internal speakers IMO. The Volume is also lacking. Full volume is not really that loud on the KN2600 considering it has 2 x 20Watt speakers. They both have USB connectivity. The PSR 2100's Flash ROM Memory is miserly -(1.5mb) compared to the expansive SD Memory Cards. The PSR 2100 has a Floppy Drive though whereas the KN2600 does NOT have a Floppy Drive. But you wouldn't need it since you have the SD Memory capability.

Neither the PSR 2100 or KN2600 has Hard Drive capability. But then again the SD Memory Card capacities are up to 1 GB in size and pretty soon they will be up to '8' GB's in size so essentially it IS a Hard Drive. Also the KN7000 has SD Memory and you can even use the SD Memory for loading and playing not just .Wav files, etc., but MP3 files as well. I think the same thing is possible on the KN2600 but I could be mistaken. Call a dealer to confirm this if you have questions regarding this and other features.

Now here's the Kicker - you will pay 'several' hundred dollars "more" for the KN2600. Something like $500 more. If you don't mind spending more it really is a toss up as to which board to get. Both are good Boards but I think the PSR 2100 has better quality sounds in it overall compared to the KN2600. But the KN2600 has SD Memory capability which is a 'huge' advantage over the PSR 2100's 1.5Mb Flash ROM Memory. But again, the PSR 2100 has a Floppy Drive of course so it essentially has unlimited Storage too but with the KN2600 you wouldn't have to keep putting in and taking out Floppy Disks which can be a hassle sometimes. Decisions, decisions.......

Best regards,
Mike

and what about styles? People say yamaha styles are simple, canned and mechanic. What about 2600 styles.

And, what about sequencer, and the possibility to make and edit styles? Is similar in both kbs?.

Is yamaya live grand piano voice better than best piano voice on 2600?

Bluebird

To answer your questions 'in order'

1. The KN2600 Styles are very lively and dynamic in their sound and realism. It is probably a toss up depending on what suits you. My advice is try and find Demos of the KN2600 on the Net or play it in person to make a final opinion.

2. I didn't have a chance to try out the KN2600's Sequencer but from what I've read on the Net it is similar to the PSR 2100, ie., 16 track, simple record mode, step recording mode, etc. On a side note: The PPQ timing resolution on the KN2600 is only 92PPQ. The PSR 2100's PPQ is 1920 'Parts Per Quarter Note' timing resolution which is a huge difference. They say anything less than 480PPQ is not Professional in rating.

The editing ability of the Styles and sounds on the KN2600 is much greater than it is on the PSR 2100 from what I understand.

3. Yes IMO. But you may like the KN2600's Grand Piano voice better. They're both pretty decent.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 10-05-2003).]

Guys,
thanks so much for your advices and opinions.
Although I tried the KN-2600 and I must say it sounds really nice, easy to play because of my previous KN experience, SD feature for maximum storage capacity,. etc etc...
I am deciding towards the PSR-2100 for a couple of major reasons:
1) the price of the PSr seems more interesting (its probably a better deal overall) and I could use the $200 difference to get additional gears for my studio.
2) the Yamaha platform seems to be more popular and its easy to find thousands of new styles online giving me the ability of "renewing" the base styles almost infinitely...
3) I don't really care about the SD feature because I have a Computer based system, and I'll be storing everytning into my PC.

But ultimately I will play the PSR today at my local music store here in Ottawa (Canada) and make the final decision.

I will buy online for sure, because the price here in Ottawa is roughly $CDN 2100-2200+ taxes... that its way too much compared to the online retailers (I saw the price at $1195US online, that translates into $1,600CDN... so I save something like $CDN700 by doing this )

is there any place that you know, that has this keyboard for less than $1195? and that can ship Fedex to Canada? Let me know.
Thanks.

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Cheers,

M.C.GATTO

M.C. Gatto,

I believe you have made a wise choice. I too have played the two boards side by side and there is no comparison IMO. The 2000/2100 has clean, smooth, crisp voices, that are so realistic it's nearly impossible for someone to determine if they are the real instrument or a synth. The live piano sound alone is probably among the best in the industry, and the list of sweet instruments boggles the mind and continues to expend. As for styles, there are more styles both onboard and third party for Yamaha than all other boards combined. This, plus the endless possibilities available with the Yamaha, plus great forums like this one and www.psrtutorial.com and SVPworld will provide you with unlimited support when you do encounter technical problems. As for the price, sounds like you've found a good buy there as well.

Good Luck,

Gary 8)

usually I like vey much the Yamaha Piano sounds. I have a Yahama P-80 (88keys stage piano) and I think the GrandPIano sounds amazing.

One question... has anyone tried to control the PSR2001 from a P-80 or from another 88-keys piano thru MIDI? I am used to play on the real piano keys and the full 88-keys keyboard. If there would be a rack version of the PSR2001 that would be really amazing... oh well...

I would be really interested in knowing if anyone tried that. Let me know.
Thanks again. you guys are really a great bunch of people.



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Cheers,

M.C.GATTO

M.C.,
I also live in Canada and Cdn$ 2100 - 2200 is high (even for Canada). The PSR2000 was selling at approx. C$1850 at Long & McQuade here in Toronto. The PSR2100 S/B the same price. You might consider shopping around. If you order from the U.S. you have to consider the total landed cost: transportation, customs duty, taxes.etc. Let us know if you order from the U.S. and what the landed cost would be. I might consider the same route. Let me know where you make your final purchase.
Starkeeper

All of you speak about kn2600.
But there is another technics, kn2400. It is very similar to kn2600 but has not SD card, only floppy.
So, it is more similar to PSR2100, and I think is cheaper than PSR2100.

Any opinion?

There are posts similar to these in Technics forum. But (nothing new...)there, they think Technics is far better than Yamaha (styles far better, sounds far better, building keyboard far better, sd card, ...).
Here, a neutral forum but more pro-Yamaha, it seems general opinion is Yamaha is better (better sounds, etc.).

Obviously, both opinions can't be true at same time.

Why people can't be objective?



[This message has been edited by Bluebird (edited 10-06-2003).]