I'm impressed not only with Tyros Mega Voices (they sound Awesome!), but also with Tyros' much improved sounding styles.

Tyros styles continue to have the trade mark Yamaha flavor we've all come to love (or hate), but what I notice with the 'new' Tyros styles is that they really 'breathe' more now, both with 'punch' and 'live' spontaneity.

I believe the style improvement is not only due to Yamaha's integration of their 'new' Mega Voices, but EQUALLY IMPORTANT, that they have (re)recorded Tyros Styles at
Yamaha's new maxium midi note resolution standard of 1,920 ppq (parts per quarter note).

Previous PSR kb sequencers only supported 192 ppq (as most other brand arranger keyboards are limited to as well). The dramatic increase in midi note timing resolution support is a key factor to increasing the sequencer's ability to 'more accurately' capture the original performance 'timing nuances' played by the musician when initially recorded. Though the PSR2000's sequencer's resolution is also 1,920 ppq, I believe Yamaha did not actually begin recording & implementing their 1,920 ppq resolution quality styles until the advent of the Tyros.

I think the reason Ketron styles sound so amazing is because Ketron utilizes 'live drum' samples (digital audio loops) which effectively can capture live drum timing nuances far better than a 192 ppq sequencer can. Yamaha chose a different approach and increased their sequencer timing resolution to effectively achieve a similar result. This is all exciting to me on both fronts.

Interested in hearing feedback from others on this.

Scott

Hi Scott!
I agree, although I do enjoy the 9000, I think the styles are a bit "crowded", for lack of a better word. That's why I'm thrilled to hear the styles of the Tyros. They seem to have room for me in them as well!!

Roy-Andrè

Scott,
I think that and other factors as well have made the Tyros the board, that will raise the bar for others to shoot for.
jam on,
Terry

Scott,

I agree totally on that one. The PA80 uses 384 ppq and still I can never make ( or even alter ) a style that "lives" and breathes like a real performance should. For live work, it isn't a real big issue to me at all because I try to keep the focus on my own playing and entertaining the folks I'm playing for. Still, better resolution would be nice to have. For composing though, 384 is unacceptable to me.

I've experimented by recording a piece ( of my live play .. realtime.. no styles ) at 480 ppq via midi ( using xg works ) and digital audio ( monophonic ) simultaneously. I then assigned the midi playback through my kb to one monitor and the recorded audio to the other. I got them to sync as close to perfect as possible. When I played them together, my ears could detect a discernible difference. Some of the nuances were lost in the midi file reproduction. I tried this again in Sonar at 960 ppq, and this time both the midi playback and the audio sounded exactly the same to me.

AJ

Hi AJ What you are saying is EXACTLY what I've been trying to convince everyone here for a VERY LONG time (check my past postings over the years). Funny thing is most people here did'n't seem to understand or care about this issue. In fact I even remember Frank L. Rosenthal chastising me for being an overly picky complainer when I initially brought this issue up.

AJ, I'm so GLAD you took the time to test this whole thing out for yourself with your OWN ears. Many thanks for supporting my case. I think if others here just took the time to perform the same thing you did, they would easily hear the difference as well. Any takers?

Scott

Actually Scott, your posts about this subject ultimately went a long way in convincing me to make this test. From the time I began trying to make / modify my own styles, I had suspected that I was hearing a "quantisation" that I knew I didn't "play" or program into the data for the user styles I was making. I find that it sometimes is already a difficult task in itself trying to emulate certain instruments via a midi keyboard without having to deal with timing constraints imposed by lack of resolution. There IS a difference. I can now say that I've experienced it with my own ears.

AJ

By the way Scott....checked out "I'm Singing" from your website...really nice. (I changed my mind about sharing my music with you...after hearing how good your stuff is, makes my stuff not worthy sharing....he.he...)

KN_Fan

KN_Fan,

Thanks for listening to my music, and glad you enjoyed it. It was actually recorded on my old Technics KN5000. I personally think my sound has improved substantially with my Yamaha PSR2000. I recommend you give the Tyros or PSR2000 a serious listen when considering your next kb. Long as I'm at it, checkout the Ketron XD9 too, though even myself, in the San Francisco Bay area, have still not found an XD9 to audition.

As far as musical worthiness goes, I believe we're ALL worthy, but possibly just at different points along the life long music path. I hope you'll eventually feel confident enough to share your music here. This is truly a supportive forum.

Scott

I conducted a similar A/B comparison listening test on a group of college music students, and they were all able to quickly point out which version was recorded at the higher resolution, almost immediately. Oh well, some people can't distinguish the difference between compressed MP3's and CDs so go figure.

Only God is PERFECT in my book, but thanks for the compliment.

There isn't any point in me arguing this. I know that there is a difference and I heard it with my own ears. Perhaps, when I'm not quite as busy as I am right now, I will recreate the experiment and convert the midi to audio in one speaker and record my real time playing to the other speaker, and then save it so that others who don't believe or aren't sure can hear what I am talking about. On the other hand, even with this kind of proof I suspect I'd get an argument anyway. If 192 works for you, I'm all for it Frank. It just doesn't work for me. As much as I like arrangers in general and programs like Jammer Pro for composing, my chief problem with them is the lack of sequencer resolution and the mechanical sounds that they produce. If the Tyros has the tools and resolution that can help me to overcome this mechanical quality I hear in the current crop of machines ( mine included ), it would be well worth a look for me.

The trick for me is to find a balance between parts I can play in real time ( longer but far less editing ) or have programs help me to compose parts ( drumes in particular ) that I cannot play well ( initially faster but sometimes with a lot of editing required to help get rid of the mechanical qualities )

When I do electronic based stuff, mechanical isn't a bad thing at all. When I move more toward jazz fusion oriented stuff, mechanical and quantised is totally unacceptable.

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 10-11-2002).]