I just wanna try my stated choices right now to fill my curiosity urges......I'll agree the 3k is still phenomenal for gigs....I have a wait and see attitude for the future..I still have a bad taste in my mouth on some of my previous KB adventures....I guess we'll see what is around the corner wont we ?
Gary thanx for all your help .



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-05-2006).]

Roland E-80 and stuff,
Korg Pa800, pa1xpro,
FAIRLIGHT !!!!
KORG OASYS,
KORG TRITON STUDIO,
KURZWEIL,
ENSONIQ,
old analog SYNTHESIZERS like moog... w
ell-known Pianos like Bosendorfer...

I am still enjoying my PSR3000, but would be interested in the Yamaha PSR3100, if it has 76 keys and SA voices.
It is no longer easy to predict what Yamaha would do. They seem to be competing against themselves, since competing against the competion would not be much of a challenge for them. (hope I don't start a war with that statement).
Starkeeper

Yamaha have yet to port their SA voice technology to even their top-of-the-line workstation series. I would be surprised (but pleased) to see it trickle down to their mid-line arrangers first.....

The truth is, the triggering concept for the legato/staccato ability of SA voices has been around since the Hammond B3, with the use of polyphonic single trigger voices in the 'percussion' section. It has taken decades for synth manufacturers to realize the value of being able to phrase a line without being limited to monophonic synth sounds.

One can only hope that this is the start of a whole new direction of sound generation, one that finally allows sampled sounds some of the flexibility that real instruments have.....

Hello Dikki
You are quite correct as usual in the Solo/Legato modes.
However it was reintroduced in sampled instruments in the 80s by Akai sample producers who realised that by controlling the sound layers by the keyboard (Instead of a single voice, a mixture was added to make up the solo voice) allowed them to produce the effects required.
When the large VST sample sets became available in the early part of the 21st century, scripts were added to achieve the same job, this scripting combined with the amount of samples used in a single voice means that although the Yamaha SA voices are good, they pale in comparison to VST instruments.
As most professionals engineers (And also musicians) use these VSTs for music production, there has been little need for a hardware board to do the same job.
The only reason Yamaha introduced it on there arranger boards, is because they are aimed squarely at the home market, (Where competition is fierce) where a lot of people require a more simple approach, and so by providing this facility Yamaha guarantee massive sales.
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

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[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 12-22-2006).]

Abacus....... I am afraid I don't believe I have ever come across an Akai product that is capable of the single trigger, polyphonic voice system that is necessary to achieve the Hammond percussion/legato-staccato effect by playing it. Sure, you can paint transients in with a sequencer, but to perform it live, you have to have a voice priority scheme that has virtually never appeared in a synth.

Here's the skinny...... you need something that is akin to monophonic mode, where the voice envelopes (actually, the voice itself) doesn't re-trigger until you release ALL the keys, but is still polyphonic, so you can play chords.

This is what happens with the Hammond B3's percussion section, albeit with a different electro-mechanical method. But the results are the same. And, for B3 lovers, the ability to be able to phrase and emphasize licks with careful use of legato/staccato technique, to bring in the percussion exactly where YOU want it, and not where you don't, is integral to the whole playing experience. Look at the lengths owners of pre-percussion Hammond owners go to to add this humble feature.....

Now, to my recollection (and I've been hunting this voice allocation scheme since the Minimoog days) no synth or sampler has ever chosen to support this, despite the obvious advantages, especially to sampled sounds.

Let's examine the case of a nice, legato sax sample.... Obviously, despite the fact that this is what we are usually stuck with, no-one wants to use a tongued sample for a legato line, but no-one wants to use a legato sample for a tongued note. How do you get both in the same line? A tongued note at the start of the phrase, and legato notes until you WANT to tongue again?

I believe how Yamaha have achieved this is to tell the voice engine 'first note, play tongued sample, then play legato samples until you see all notes lifted, then play tongued sample again'..... The genius of this is that it doesn't have to be a monophonic sound, so you can achieve real phrasing even on section playing, as Yamaha have done with the String SA voices as well as wind and brass.

For anyone used to phrasing a B3 correctly, getting a good performance from the SA voices must be a snap. For the rest, start paying REAL close attention to your legato/staccato phrasing..... and practice, practice, practice.....

Now, Abacus, if you know of ANY sampler that allows this triggering system, please tell me (I am not interested in GIGA software solutions, it has to be realtime hardware-based), as I have been searching forever.....

Now all I have to do is wait until Yamaha port the technology over to their workstation line, and get a module to go with my G70 (or the rapture arrives and Yamaha release a 76 note Tyros3!).......

OK I'lll bite what is the S900 ?

Hello Dikki
When you purchase an Akai sample disc, it contains samples of all parts of the instrument, (As usual you get what you pay for) and then you layer the different voices together to achieve the effect you require, for instance; layer 1 legato saxophone, layer 2 the tongued sample, (Choosing the version that will not play again until all notes are released) mix the 2 together with the correct volumes and store in a performance preset, and there you have your voice.
I have not tried this on any of the hardware workstations, but most include these samples (Just not as many and normally of lesser quality) so it should be possible.
In fact I remember when Wersi first introduced there digital organs in 1984, they had a 2 part voice system (In addition to the layering) which gave this type of effect. (Although due to the 8 bit sampling and limited memory in those days, you did not get the effect you can get on modern boards)
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

No, you still don't quite get it, abacus..... this isn't at all like having tongued and legato sounds layered, with a velocity cross switch or controller to cross them over.

That is what makes the T2 so unique.... it can do all that in realtime by using your phrasing, NOT how hard you play. Horn players can tongue hard at very quiet volumes and play smoothly VERY LOUD...... it's what makes velocity-switched saxes so fake. You can do some very convincing things with breath controllers, and foot controllers, and aftertouch, but they are all counter-intuitive to play..... Using your own natural phrasing to make the samples change for you is exactly what the Hammond percussion does, and what makes the potential of Yamaha's SA technology so breakthrough. It is VERY playable. No need to learn new techniques or body coordination tricks. Just play and phrase naturally (like a horn player), and the samples play and phrase for you. Brilliant.....!