Three years wasted, that is! For almost 3 years I put off the Bose because I never believed the improved sound would be adequate to warrent the cost. Also, the extra set-up and tear-down time had me concerned. I was wrong on both counts.

I picked up the system last night at GC, set it up in the living room, and spent all night setting up, connecting, and tweeking settings and pre-sets. Having a performance scheduled this afternoon, there was no way I was going without the Bose. I arrived an extra half hour early since I wasn't sure if I knew what I was doing. As it turned out, set-up time was only an added 10 minutes, and I'm sure that after awhile it'll be only half that, at best. All went well with many compliments on the sound.

What I like most about the PAS/L1, it makes me sound lots better than I really am!

Bottom line, all the accolades we've been hearing on the Bose are warrented. And what a rush it is to be hearing that sound as you're performing. Thanks Gary, Eddie, and Don for helping me get a fast track on this thing.

Glenn

Like I've always said--You'll love what you hear!

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Is it o.k. if I say, modestly,
I TOLD YOU SO!

It was good to talk with you on the phone.
Enjoy the Bose! You'll find that when you get the procedure down, setup time is minimal.
You can leave the base in the bag. Just unzip and roll it back.
DonM

GlennT,

I thought I had mentioned this to you in FL (during the workshop when we used John Deep's setup)? We currently have/use 2 PAS systems with 4 subs and I must say, they're great!

AJ

What's the overall output(Watts)of PAS?also the sub.

I have had mine for a year now. My vocals sounded so good that people in the audience convinced me to include them in my repitoire.

Also, the service and general help from Bose is second to none.

Does the amplifier have built in reverb?

The L1 is 750-watts RMS, 1,400-watts Peak. The tower is 500-watts, and the sub is 250-watts. While some will tell you that 750 watts is not sufficient, you'll be amazed at the power, sound distrubition and clarity of this system. And, just using a single sub along with the tower you'll find yourself turning down the bass because it can be overpowering. I recently performed outdoors at an area twice the size of a football field and never had to turn the system above 1/3 volume. Even those sitting 300 to 500 feet from the system said they had no trouble hearing the music.

Good Luck,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Zuki,

No reverb, but it does have an excellent selection of preprogrammed EQs, as well as a 3-band EQ on the remote.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

As I told Glenn on the phone, I thought I would use the Bose L1 just for my night time gigs and another powered speaker for the smaller daytime jobs. However, the difference is so remarkable, I now use the Bose for every job.

It is SOOOO good, you can hear every mistake I make.

Eddie

I played an outside auto race track awards ceremony Sunday. This marked the one-year anniversary of my Bose system, as last year I played this same job the first week I had it.
There were perhaps 500 people there. Before the awards, there was a swap meet on the ground behind the stadium. I was up in the grandstand, near the concession stand, and the the people BEHIND me, about 50 feet below me, could clearly hear the music, even though the Bose was faced toward the race track infield, away from them.
At the same time, people in line for food, about five feet in front of the pole, were comfortable carrying on conversations while they waited and enjoyed the music.
It's just amazing.
DonM

Yes, AJ... as did others. Some things just take a while to sink in.

Glenn

Congrats Glenn,
I concur with all the accolades that the Bose system is receiving. I'm sure you will be happy with the system. I'm coming up on my third year with the system. I use the L1 and one sub for even small venues as it has a little more punch with the sub. For very large or outdoor venues, I use a second sub. I also use a mini mixer with effects rather than the Bose remote so I can add a little reverb. The Bose tech service is another wonderful feature. I believe that I may have already posted that I had a problem with the amp, called Bose and we couldn't determine the nature of the problem over the phone. Bose sent a new amp/base before my next gig. Ya Can't beat that.
Ciao,
Jerry

Jerry,
That happened to me as well. Called Bose and had a new one the next day.
DonM

Glenn good luck with the bose.....its a fine mono system for sure.

But Im glad I sold mine ......I couldnt live without the true stereo field seperation on stage using Two speakers/sub, its just personal preference.

have fun.

Congratulations to everyone pleased with the performance of the Bose system.

At my house job, I frequently HIRE a friend,, a country singer, to help out during special events (last week-end for a halloween event-I DON'T do ANY country music). He brings in his Bose. I just don't see the big deal...in fact, it may be his settings, but I just don't like the sound. Plus, the set-up time and number of pieces with sub is just more than I'm willing to haul for a small one-nighter. I just don't see what all the excitement is all about.

Just my prteferences...

Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 11-01-2006).]

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 11-01-2006).]

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 11-01-2006).]

Russ, Maybe if you didn't frequently FIRE him, he would learn to set it right!

DonM

I strongly discourage anyone around here from getting a Bose. I want to sound better than they do. Stereo is a limited concept compared to the multi-speaker concept of the Bose.
Awaiting rebuttals from non-Bose-owners,
DonM

Sorry Don...a slip of the fingers...or WAS it?

Man, I'm an opinionated old ****!


Russ

I agree in principal... for what a single mono Bose L1 w/sub costs you can get a Motion Sound KeyPro stereo amp and two JBL powered EON's and have a high-quality surround-sound system.

Folks I'm very grateful to all of you. Am thinking about purchasing a Bose system. I get all the pros and cons from everyone. It will certainly help me to make an educated/well informed decision one way or the other. To quote one of the clothing stores, " An educated consumer is our best customer."

You can buy one from Bose and return it at no cost if you don't like it.
Be careful, because most of the music store employees don't even know how to hook it up.
DonM

http://www.basslinks.nl/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=4733

some different Bose reviews

Jim,

I have a Motionsound KP-100. I keep it in my van for emergencies. I would never use it on the job, and from my experience it's probably the worst sounding amp I've ever used. And, when you look at the internal workings of the KP-100, all of the component parts would not cost $100 retail, and that includes the speakers. It's probably the most overrated, overpriced amp I've come across, and if I would not have been able to garner it at the price I paid, I would have never purchased it. It has never been out of the van, mainly because I have yet to experience a system failure with the Bose or Logitech.

As for stereo, I've said it all before--no one other than those individuals situated within an equalteral triangle of the speakers benefit from stereo--no one. Those situated outside the triangle are subject to an overpowering of the left or right speakers. I want everyone in my audience to hear everything coming from the keyboard. Whether or not I hear stereo is irrelevant.

The best advice I have for anyone that wishes to purchase any sound system is to allow both their audiences and themselves be the judge of the system's performance. And, similar to Don, I hope no else purchases a Bose L1. Buy a Peavey, Macky, anything--just don't buy a Bose--I need the money!

Good Luck,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

As they say at McDonald's..."I'm lovin' it."

After clicking on the site DNJ posted of "reviews" of the Bose L1, not one of the posters on the first page ever owned one. They just like to trash the concept (as they perceive it), the price, or Bose in general.

The stereo vs. mono discussions will go on ad nauseum. All I can tell you is I never had such rave reviews on the system from the folks that really matter: the audiences and people who hire me.

As for cost, the Bose L1 cost only a fraction of the total I have spent on other conventional systems over the years.

Am I predjudiced because I own it? Probably.
Do I want to see all musicians and entertainers get one? Absolutely not!

But, it does bother me to hear negative reviews from people who have never used one or taken the time to learn how to use it correctly. It's kinda like watching those political ads. Everyone says they hate negative ads...but statistics show they work.

Bottom line: Don't buy a Bose L1. It will raise your taxes and cut Social Security.

Eddie

www.mackie.com
www.yorkville.com

Donnie, go back and read the ones YOU gave when you owned one.
DonM

My 2 cents...maybe $2 worth of opinion..

First Eddie that is how I feel about opinions on the G1000[Roland]..I hear more negatives from people[some even owned one], that don't have a clue what the board is capable of...but that's another story[ and it has nothing to do with "mine is better then yours"....]

Gary of course you are correct about the sweet spot in stereo...but there is another consideration with stereo..The proper panning , allocation of instruments...as they would be on a stage..helps the listener to think of a band on stage..

Panning of instruments can be heard in most rooms..As an example with spacing of the speakers at 10 feet..you can get the feeling of a real drummer with cymbals and toms in different locations..You can hear movement of a drum kit..no matter where you sit..The only time the sweet spot comes into play are stereo effects that need balancing..I think it is less critical with Roland and Ketron compared to Yamaha and Korg..

The only time stereo is a no no to me , is when you need coverage in a wide audience as in the average "Boardwalk" job..

As for the Bose, I have always thought they sound great..I have heard them in low volumes[great] and normal room levels[also great]..What I may not be sure of,[and I have not experienced this yet]..is when you need to push for high energy and volume...I am not just talking about a lounge act volume..

I don't think the Bose can match up to my Yorkville system when it comes to dance music..I still think you have to move air to be effective..

Gary the Bose sub may be adequate in most situations, but they don't cut it in a big venue..not even a pair of the subs..You will not get that in your chest bass out of them, and I don't think the system was ever intended for "dance" music..

Well that is my $1.95 worth...I am holding back 5 cents for rebuttal time...

Don I loved it for a while...but usually after about 50 gigs things start to change as did with the PAS for me....I was missing something in my sound which was the Stereo separation & versatility that two speakers & sometimes 3 w/sub give me, plus I could sense that the Audience was NOT FEELING THE MUSIC due to the lack of AIR NOT Being pushed....carrying 4 pcs of speaker gear just for the PAS +
w/ covers plus everything else was another bothersome thing day after day....so you see Don things change in life even with musicians & the PAS is no different.......just offering my personal experience.....people can make their own choices I know I made mine & I'm happy I did!

Anyone Agree on this?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-01-2006).]

I do, but I doubt you will get any "Amens"..

Gary;

I don't think I've read a post in recent memory that I disagreed with more.

The KP-100s and the KP-200s are two of the finest amps I've ever had the pleasure of working with in 35+ years. I use my KP-100s at least twice a week and it's still putting out great sound. I can only hope it lasts for years to come. Whatever you do with the KP-100s, or to it, to get such bad results is a a personal issue. I did an outdoor gig at a party on Sunday with the KP-200s alone that sounded great. Both amps are important to me but I wouldn't hesitate to dump them in a second if something better came along... nothing has.

As to stereo... it is my firm belief that the most important and critical person listening is ME. Whatever makes the sound better and more enjoyable for the guy playing is worthwhile. I love stereo but I'll take surround if I can swing it, and I often can. Besides, I believe in acoustic reflection and the more sources for sound the more reflections. While they audience may not be getting the absolute perfect stereo mix form every chair (they'll never know or care anyway) they are individually getting their own unique left/right experience that usually takes either multiple musicians with multiple instruments to achieve or a single musician with multiple speakers. Whatever - IMHO the more musos that use mono, the better I sound. Stereo 4 life.

Esh

I owned the PAS for a while and came to the conclusion that is was easier to transport 2 powered speakers and tripods instead. Carrying the two speakers in its cases, the half-moon amplifier is a pain placing on a rock n roller. The easiets carrying part was the sub which you really needed two to get any real boost. I set up easier and faster taking out the two tripods and placing my FBT Maxx4A speakers on them in minutes, plus I get a stereo sound and have 800 watts of power behind me. Can't go wrong.

Firehead,,does that mean "Amen" to DNJ?

There is one thing we should all keep in mind...We are all friends here..and we have different experiences and opinions...Just because I am always right doesn't lessen your opinions..

Think how boring it would be if we all agreed with everything,

Jim,

When I find a good amp to replace the KP-100, it will go on the For Sale section for $200. The only reason I keep it is because it fits nicely between the van's rear seats. I've only plugged it in and tested it out one time, and that was all I had to hear before placing it in the van for a backup.

Fran,

I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong!

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

gotta agree with ya M8

Air is only "pushed" about 10 feet in front of the speaker, so after that .... NO one "feels" it. So ......... the people in that 11 - 150 foot range in front of the stage all get the same ammount of NO air pressure.
With my Bose - the people in front and the people in the back, and the people on the sides, ALL get the clarity of the music ....without blowing away those few in the first 10 feet range.
I love ya Donny, but you'd send a super model packing after 50 gigs too!
My Bose was the single best music investment I ever made.

Dave, you are right as usual. The Bose has set me a step ahead of most everybody else around here. The thing is, I don't care whether anyone else gets one, but it's something you must try for yourself to see if it suits your needs.
You must have an open mind and think outside the box.
The only time in the past 25 years I ever had people asking why my sound wasn't as good as usual was the one night I used HankB's Motionsound amp. I had customers come up and say, "whatever you changed, change it back."
It didn't sound good to me either. Maybe I did something wrong, but I sure wasn't interested in trying it any longer.
DonM

Dave I think you need to go see Fran's group "Just In Time" perform & you'll see why 1 PAS system could never pull it off on stage in his venues.

As for all you PAS lovers.......enjoy you system,
But after trying one extensively....
I'll remain a TWO Speaker/sub man

man here we go again... this is slowly turning into "My speakers are better then yours" segment versus the original post by Glenn.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-02-2006).]

Didn't I read some time back that you bought two for stereo?

Esh

The very first time I heard the Bose L1 was at an Italian restaruant where UD was set up just a few feet from the bar. The venue was such that a conventional system would have blown away the guy sitting the bar 4 feet in front of Dave's keyboard, while those sitting in the adjacent dining rooms would not have heard a sound. The Bose filled all three rooms equally with beautiful music, and the volume was nearly identical throughout the entire building. The combined area of all three rooms was approximately 5,500 square feet, and the volume level was never cranked up beyond 25 percent.

One of the most noticeable things that night, other than the equal distribution of sound, was Dave's vocal quality. Dave is an excellent performer and singer, and I've had the privilege of hearing him on several occasions. This particular night, however, the vocals were exceptionally clear and crisp--much more so than any time in the past. The mic was the same, therefore I can only attribute this to the Bose L1. The very next day I placed an order with Bose.

Sounds systems are always very subjective, therefore I strongly suggest that anyone purchasing a sound system, Bose, Logitech, Peavey, Motion Sound, etc., take the time to listen to other performers using those systems. Listen to them while they are performing at various sized venues with varying accustic configurations. Walk throughout the room or hall, and pay careful attention to the mids, lows, and highs, the clarity of the keyboard and vocals, and also listen carefully to any announcements made through the system. Then after spending several days, or even weeks evaluating the systems, place your order at an outlet that has a reasonable return policy. If you don't like what you hear, take it back for a full refund--not store credits.

As for setup time, I carry a lot of gear with me on every job--even the nursing homes and assisted living jobs. My setup time ranges 10 to 12 minutes from the time I walk in the door with a loaded Rock "N" Roller. When I was lugging a pair of powered speakers and speaker stands, my setup time was 10 to 12 minutes. Years ago, when none of my cables were harnessed, and I had wires hanging everywhere, the setup time was 30 to 35 minutes. Organization of your equipment makes a big difference and really reduces setup time. Additionally, you don't have to worry whether or not you left a cable at home--they're all in the harness.

I sincerely wish to thank Uncle Dave for being among the first members to share his experience with the Bose L1. I value his opinions and they sure made a big difference for me.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

In all hinest I really thing that the PAS for solo mono instruments & has drifted aimlessly into the stereo keyboard world.

Yep, UD's post about how great the PAS system sounded when you used two of them for stereo is here . FWIW I have a friend in Orlando who is using a pair of PAS systems for his OMB act also.

Having a PAS pair would be the only way I'd consider them, and putting four grand into a stereo speaker system just isn't going to happen when I have full surround-sound stage system now for a lot less.

Jim, who's your friend in Orlando and where does he perform? I'm heading down that way in a few months.

Glenn

Jim on top of that you'd have to carry a total of 8 pcs just for the sound system with 2 pas's plus all your other gear !!!

try doing a few doubles with all that back to back....


for some the pas is just not the right fit.

Glenn, what keyboard are you playing now?

Still the PSR3000?

His name is Don Beem and his website is http://www.a1manband.com/. He plays a lot of places and you can email him for his schedule.

Esh

A DISSENTING OPINION from one who has no interest in
saying "mine is better" since I'm not that invested in what I have...and am always curious to discover something that will make me throw all my stuff out and buy the better
system. This is from someone who has not used the PAS
except to sit in on sax with the bands using them, but who has heard an excellent R&B group and an excellent jazz group using their old equipment and then heard them after they recently got the Bose PAS.

In both cases the bands were besides themselves with the excitement of having made the decisions and the large investment, in fact they pointed out to the audience their
new setup with obvious pride. I think Jane Austen had
something when she wrote "Pride & Prejudice"..I believe
the pride factor makes the user extremely prejudiced in
favor of the PAS they have purchased. Only natural.

In the case of the R&B group, the vocals sounded thinner to my ears than with their former system (2 JBL Eon 15's) For the jazz group, they were using 2 large Bose speakers before, don't know what amp..but they sounded as rich and full as could be. I can't blame the pianist/leader for not wanting to carry those heavy monsters around anymore, but he can't convince me he improved the sound, although he had a vested interest in convincing himself. They were all atwitter with excitement about their new PAS, but the sound was not as full, plus they were now playing much too loud for the middle of the room on back, and it never happened previously.

There is an inherent problem with the concept of music
being at the approximate same volume no matter the
distance. The jazz group, with vocalist, was playing at
their normal level, and they heard it the same as before..
however, the audience in the middle of the room and the rear heard it at the same level. Normally people tend to
sit at a distance that's comfortable for their hearing level..
right up front for the super fans, middle for those that
don't want all that much sound at them, and rear for those
who like it softer or want to talk more and listen less. With
the Bose everyone got the same dose, and there were
complaints for the first time from steady customers who came every Thursday to hear the band. Including me.

I have always felt that amplification should ideally sound like an acoustic experience, only louder and clearer. In an acoustic setting, the sound is louder at the source. That is
only a problem in a concert hall where everyone needs to get their money's worth, so the bose is ideal for that kind
of venue, but not for an intimate or medium venue. I also
am a proponent of music that appears to come from the
source, and not from somewhere else. I refuse to let any
venue hook me up to a house sound system with speakers
all around the room, and I keep my speakers in close
proximity to me. When I go hear a solo, duo, or trio in a
bar, lounge, or restaurant, I hate when they spread one speaker way to their left and one way to their right, and
both way over their heads. Might as well listen to a recording..music should come from the source, and you should fell like it's coming from the band..speakers should be at band's ear level and near them so monitors
can be dispensed with..we have enough technology today
to overcome feedback problems. The band should hear
the same speakers as the audience..not a separate mix
from floor monitors. so many problems occur from that..
i will grant the PAS eliminates that horror, and that's one good thing about them. But give me 2 good spkrs set up
near the band's ears and close to the group, with no
*&)&)))%%%!! soundman to mess around with monitors, and that blows the PAS away for my money.

so that's why I'm not a PAS fan, and never will be, except
for in a concert hall situation, for which they are ideal...




------------------
Miami Mo

Very reasoned approach, Miami Mo. I agree and often choose where to sit based on whether I'm gonna really listen, or am having a side conversation.

I have listened to the fellow who brings the PAS to my regular job. We get lot's of complaints about him being too loud up front, and I can barely hear him in the back of the room. He's really not that familiar with the room, but this system just dosn't appear to be the best for this situation. I typically use two keyboards, two guitars and two mikes, so I would need to add a 2nd mixer, I guess.


After hearing it four times and playing through it once, it's just not for me.


That's my story, and I'm STICKING TO IT!

All the best, folks,


Russ "tin ear" Lay

Bottom line - never mind who is using what. If you're happy with what you have, the sound you make and your audience is happy, everthing else doesn't matter. For me, it's just a matter of having fun, meeting good people and sounding the best I can for the people who constantly come to hear me and my partner. What may be easier for me may not be someone else.