Following that forum I often think about the differences between musicians and audiences in the States and here in Germany. But concerning the topic above I have come across that everything here in Germany is just the same. OK, musicians that use arrangers are much more common here, and have been for years. There is a german brand "Wersi" that used to be very popular here in the 80's. They kind of fostered the one-man-band-thing throughout their instruments. But anyway. Audiences here are the same than they seem to be at your places. Sometimes you have the impression that really no one is listening. Another thing is that the people at weddings - gigs we mostly play- seem to dance less and less. I have been playing at weddings since 1982 and in the good old eighties people started dancing to our music right after dinner, that used to be 9.00 p.m.. Nowadays people sometimes start dancing at about 1 o'clock in the morning. And I am not talking about 20 couples here. I am talking about 5 to maybe 10 couples at the most - from a bunch of 100 people altogether. So why are we doing this? I think, we are doing it for ourselves. Our normal gigging is done with me on keyboards and my brother on guitar. What I like most about it is singing. I am singing the second voice and all the solo parts and really like it. We are singing about 90 per cent of our programme singing in two parts.
I know bands that cannot do that at all. They are as successful or even more than we are. They are real good showmen. We are not, and I never wanted to be one. I always wanted to be a musician and a singer and that's what I am.
But the thrill for me is playing with three musicians. Added to our set is another guitar player. He is playing western guitar and singing the second voice while I am doing the third voice. Listening to your own music then is real thrilling. It sometimes makes me shiver listening to ourselves interpreting Uncle Cracker's "Follow me" or "Country Roads" or "That'll be the day when I die". But coming back to the audience: They mostly do not recognize at all. Two weeks ago we played for a friend of ours, a professional trumpet player. It sounded great. When we talked to a couple of professional musicians (horn and wind players) they honestly said, they would not hear the difference between two or three people singing and would not care anyway when listening to dance music. They said they just wanted to be entertained. So that was that. But for us, what can be the conclusion? We should definitely go on giving our best. When performing and feeling good with your own music everything is good - for you as well as for your audience. When you are always feeling that you should not only try to replace four or five musicians but a whole big band we are on the wrong track. We should do what we can do best and what we like best. People mostly recognize your emotions on stage and mostly do not recognize your sounds as much as you think they do.
One example: I used to play a real great Hammond M 100 for years. Then one day it had malfunctions. I got a real shabby Farfisa Professional 88 from my local dealer and hated that evening, having to play my stuff on it. We were playing a club on a regular basis that time. The thing was that not a single man really noticed the difference.
My last point is Uncle Dave's comment on thinner arrangements. I really loved his comments on that. I started as a bass player with my left hand too. In March I played with a drummer and a saxophone player and I had the chance to do that for another time. I really enjoyed every minute of that gig. It reminded me of the good old 80's and I felt like 15 when I started playing life music. But this party was a 50's anniversary-party and you cannot turn back the wheel of time. But you can correct the course of your work. And for two years we have been doing just the same as Uncle Dave is doing. With some songs I am just using the rhythm, playing the bass line with left hand. Using the arrangers (G-1000 and Solton MS 100) I am thinning them as much as I can. That is why I am able to play with 30 or 40 styles that really fit nearly 100 per cent of my music. It keeps you busy over the evening but it gives you much more fun, having done most of it on your own. The reason for doing so was a simple one. We had a power problem on one of our gigs two years ago. That time I was using loads of midifiles both on the Roland and on my Solton. Both keyboards had gone bust and I was lucky that I could borrow a Solton MS 50 from a friend, a "naked" instrument with no registrations or anything at all. My hands were shaking a bit when we started off but we managed the gig. And it sounded fresher than ever before. Different styles (but comparable to the MS 100 of course), different sounds and much more concentration. Having lived through this me and my brother discussed two scenarios: Investing in a hard disk additional midiplayer or cutting the midifile thing back totally. I decided to do the latter and I have not regretted it ever since. While using more and more technology on stage we do not consider two things: Do we and our audience really need all this? And, doesn't lead technology lead us into a wrong direction - away from the keys and more and more to the buttons on our boards? I am saying clearly that I am not a purist at all. I really love arrangers and use their technology to a large extent, we are for example using laptop computers on stage for our lyrics. Nothing is handier.
But I want to be and remain a musician and what I want to do is, handle my tunes more that my operating systems and updates and my music data base.
That was a long statement but anyway guys out there. You have given me so much as a musician so far and I really would like to read your comments on my statement.

Markus from Germany

Well said, Markus. I agree 100%.
The arrangers have a place in the course of the night, but not a more important place than the performer. I'd rather hear a "heartfelt", simple rendition anyday - rather than a complex,"canned" arrangement.
I encourage evryone to re-read Markus' post a few times .... it's loaded with truth and helpful advice.

Markus, you are so right!
Here's my modus operandi on a gig with our duo:
Korg i30 (with Korg ih harmonizer) - that's it. Well, plus the required pa and amplification, of course.
My wife and I handle lead and harmony vocals (and we don't plaster everything with the ih, we just keep it simple two-part most of the time - it just gives more impact when we do use the ih).
Midifiles? Six out of a 130 song repertoire. You know, we have the ability to play the keyboard, why faff around with artificial stuff. That's a bit of a double standard, I know, given that we all play arranger keyboards which, essentially, are artifical bands, but you know what I mean.
Like yourself, we enjoy our own music tremendously, which, as you say, if that were not the case, then the audience certainly wouldn't enjoy it either - if only they'd communicate that now and again.
People not dancing - same here in Canada. You'd at least think they'd want to dance around a bit, if only to warm themselves up ;-)
Oh well, I've been playing keyboards of all variety since the 60's and we can rock with the best of 'em. So, I'm not about to throw it all in just yet, even if we do get a disproportionate number of stiffs in the audience these days.

Some additional thoughts on the audiences ..
.... I think the 'older' of us (I'm 61 yrs) grew up in an era when there were a lot of small combos (3-6 pcs) in clubs, playing the tunes of the day in their own style, and the audiences loved it, and did quite a bit of dancing .... today, that same audience, IF they are out at a 'club', is sitting there, talking about who died, their latest illness, the grandkids, etc. .... the younger audience is not going to dance unless the music they hear is the recording they are used to, the dance lights are flashing, and the decibel level is so high you can't think!!! ... come to think of it, the high volume gives them an excuse to get REALLY close to each other when they want to say something ..... my wife and I like to go out (when I'm not gigging), hear different groups and do some dancing, while many of our friends are in the category I spoke of earlier ...
but, as tough as it might be to please some audiences, I agree with Big Red, and I'm "not about to throw it all in just yet" ... so I keep looking for new (or different) material [latest concentration on some of the great Louis Prima stuff], and I thank GOD for the musical talent HE has given me, for I really believe it is one of the keys to my 'thinking young' ....
t.

Hello Markus.

Congratulations.
As UD I agree 100% with you and I made the download of this topic.
Brilliant.
Chico

Good comments..Some causes to my opinion;
It's the lifestyle and the way kids grow up today.
Some examples where I think this won't be much different whether in usa or somewhere else.
1. Let's start with "dancing";
When I grew up which is ages ago (mid sixties), around 14 - 16 years old it was common habbit to "learn" style dancing! There were at least 5 different dance schools where we teenagers could go to.
I'm still living in the same area, and there is one Dance school left.
It's no common habbit anymore that teenagers learn "style dancing" .
In fact I think only a few percentage of todays youth can "dance" !
I look at my own kids.. no interest at all, because none of their friends go to a dance school.
One of the reasons; well there are other places enough where they can go to, while in "our" time the dance school was one of the few places to go out anyway and do your hunt
So one of the reasons you only see a few people on the dance floor if you are playing traditional styles (Which is what our arranger are very good at) they just don't know how to dance!

2. The huge amount of music played anywhere
(radio/television/computers)
While in our time there was a crappy radio and the upcoming popscene with vinly and occasionally (one or two hours a week on television) some top of the pops/hullabaloo or whatever it was called those days., today there is a 24 hour availability of all styles of music, so nothing sounds NEW for the audience anymore.
They are bored, which is in my opinion one of the reasons the house scene keeps very popular, where the enjoyment factor for todays youth has another dimension which we cannot/won't supply as arranger artist.
a. Feel the music instead of hearing it!
So damn loud that when I tried to go to a house concert "once" I was out in a few secs.
Somehow they don't realise they ruin their ears.
b. Allowed unethical behaviour (I really look old fashioned now, but that's how I think of it.)
c. Drugs abuse

mm... I can go on a long time with this...enough for now,,, just some 0,00002 cents...

(just listening to Allan Holdsworth while writing..)

Fred

Markus: Very interesting thread indeed.
I understand where you're coming from, but at the same time, I'm leaning towards the sentiment I seemed to grasp from Freddynl's comments.
There has to be an outlet for "our" generation, and that's not necessarily gonna be with 120 db causing your ears to bleed or stobes and spots blinding you as you try to have a quiet evening with your lady.
As to the presence of other musicians...guitar, bass, some light brass..whatever, I'd look forward to performing with other musicians at any time, however, and this is the case where I'm living, so it's not necessarily gonna apply to all...but these day's money's tight, that goes of course for the owners of the establishments where you're playing. Now personally, I just enjoy to play, jam whatever, but other musicians don't necessarily like the idea of setting up to play..drag along the amp, guitar, mic stand, cables, monitors, etc. unless they're going to be reasonably compensated for their effort, and that's where the money thing becomes an issue. You're not to liable to get three or four additional musicians willing to split an ever shrinking fee for a nights work. So that's, at least to me, why the single acts seem to be popping up more and more.
I jam regularly with a number of different and versatile musicians, and we have a great time...jamming...just foolin' around...improvising. But I can't ask them to bring their gear out to some place that not willing to pay a three or four piece group a reasonable amount for their efforts. The club owner's just can't afford it.
I use sequenced material in my solo gigs, so what..the audience that I play to appreciates the effort put in to creating a pleasant atmosphere and bringing back the songs as they remembered them.
Just my thots....
Enjoy your summer everyone.

I agree with freddynl to some degree about the 'learning to dance' .... when I was in high school (mid-late 50's), my mom said I wasn't going to the prom unless I could dance, so off to dance school it was....
Leon, I would trade my arranger KB in a minute, to have my old group back, even if the bass player did miss a chord change now and then ... like you, I just LOVE to PLAY, ... my wife felt like I had a new woman when I first got my KN6000 ... and I still put the headphones on and just play long after she's gone to bed...
I also find it interesting that musicians who will sometimes travel for miles to 'jam' for a number of hours won't do the same for a small fee at a club ... maybe it's the musical 'demands' of the audience as opposed to the 'desires' of the musicians ...
not to travel too far off the thread, but in talking about today's youth and their pastimes, I live in a real 'bedroom' community, and I am amazed at how all summer I will see hardly a kid outside biking, skating, playing ball whatever, and yet during school season, the school bus stops are LOADED with kids ... where the heck are they in the summer??? ... in front of a computer playing war games??? ....
at least one of the kids a few houses down has started a 'garage band', and I can hear them pretty well at my house ..... my mother in law has asked me if I like the "kind of noise they're making', and I've told her, it may not be my kind of music, but the fact the are playing is music to my ears
t.

For me - the audience is everything. They set the pulse, they tell me what to do with their reactions, they MAKE the party. They are the reason to perform. You can practice all day by yourself, but until you share the music with someone, you never really know the power of the notes. It's magic, and it must be shared. If you are playing just for yourself .... stay home and do it as much as you want, but if you are charging money ... ANY money - you are now in the "people" business, and business IS business.

That's right UD. The trick is to find your audience's groove (shouldn't take you more than four or five numbers) and then, to quote the godfather of soul, "I just wanna get into it, man!"
Tony Mads: I am of the same era as yourself and I like a lot of these new bands (Coldplay, Matthew Good, etc.) because there seems to be a return to basics without all the huge production thing. I, too, would give anything to have my old trio back together and do the simple thing with my old Hammond M100, bass player and drummer and good, honest three-part harmony without the aid of harmonizers and assorted gizmos.
I guess that with all the gear that's available now it's a bit like being served a well-crafted gourmet meal, but sometimes all you want is an apple.