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#147177 - 01/23/02 10:57 PM my first Impression of Genesys
sk880user Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 1255
Loc: United States
Hello everybody,

As a GEM keyboard enthusiast and an owner and as one of the vocal people in this forum for keyboard enhancements, I thought I would share my first impression of this keyboard.

This keyboard really deserves a detailed review and look by musicians. Unlike any other keyboard, this one truely defines a new frontier in keyboard technology. For the last few years, all top arranger keyboards looked the same and offered the same specs but with only slight variations. GEM offered Wk/SK series several years ago that truely changed quality of keyboards (starting from WK4) at least in my opinion. Now we have Genesys.

The first thing that strikes me is that the company, General Music, has made every effort to listen to THIS FORUM... TO US in the synthzone. The most important features of this keyboard were a result of our own suggestions. Let me give you some examples:

If you look in the archives, you will find that I strongly insisted that a dream keyboard must contain all flash. I said that I really do not like all of the factory drums and sounds and I would really like to change them in any old/present/future keyboard and I would really like the opportunity to define what my keyboard will have. Therefore, I strongly suggested all flash ram instead of ROM.

In our discussion, we talked about a CDR. In order to save all presets or transfer new presets to the keyboard, you have to use, either a CDR or external scsi device. I know most people would rather use external scsi device, but my DAW system is not scsi based and therefore, CDR is truly the right option for me.

I also suggested that it would be truly nice if the keyboard can record its music on the harddisk so it can be transfered later to a DAW as a file, instead of real time recording.

In my comparison with Yamaha sounds, I pointed out that one of the reasons that Yamaha sounds are better is because Yamaha invests in quality speakers. If you play other keyboard's sounds via Yamaha keyboard speakers, they will sound better. I suggested that WK8/6 speakers were not of good quality. Genesys is reported to have the best speakers system ever. This is on the expense of weight and size.

We wanted better quality sounds, and it seems to me that the way Genesys is handling sounds, by separating the actual sound from the secondary vibrations that accompanies the sounds and also providing dedicated effects for those secondary vibrations, the keyboard is promising to offer new edge in sound quality.

I am glad to hear that the number of sliders did not decrease but increased. Interestingly enough, this was one of the suggestions in the GEM forum in synthzone, somebody suggested a separate slider for the vocal harmoney.

What does this tell me? This tell me that we have a wonderful person representing GEM in these forums who have been listening to us and contributing to our discussion. I am very shocked because I have never seen a person dedicated to listening to musicians and implementing their "DREAM" requests. Many thanks to Chris Anthony. There are so many other details and features of this keyboard that will be revealed later for our pleasant surprise... I am sure.


There are few objections of course to this keyboard:

1) Some say: "very nice" but I already have my own computer based studio. I also do have one but I do not see the my keyboard as a replacement to the studio... instead of that I see it as complementing my studio. For example, I personally asked for recording on the keyboard, because it makes the transfer of audio tracks from the keyboard to the studio very convenient and increases its quality. There are things you want to do at the studio, but there also things you want to do at the keyboard only, and some at both.

2) Weight. I agree about the weight, it is heavier than expected. But it is half of the weight of my sk880ps. However my question, would I want to give up any of the features mentioned above for lesser weight? NO.

3) size and shape. This keyboard looks weird because of the way the speakers are positioned. I was wondering if you can buy a case for it. It will be really nice if GEM can provide free soft case with this keyboard.


4) price: this is the most controversial topic here now.. and people will most likely disagree with me. So please be patient with what I am going to say... (and be nice too ) I believe this keyboard is really worth $1000 MORE than any other keyboard. There is not anything like it and offers so much TRUE cutting edge features. I posted once to say that I do not think PSR9000PRO is worth $3000. I thought that keyboard is worth $2000 MAX. The problem becomes how to offer a keyboard in this over-inflated keyboard industry for a fair price. Fair to the consumers, to the producer and to music store owners. The answer is I do not know.

Finally, I am very excited about this keyboard, I have many thoughts to share and so many questions, but I will end up with one question: what about a new oriental kit and support for 1/4 tone music.

Thanks of reading



[This message has been edited by sk880user (edited 01-23-2002).]

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#147178 - 01/23/02 11:13 PM Re: my first Impression of Genesys
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Well said.
As to price, if you were to break down what you're getting in these keyboards, you would find that they are all tremendous bargains.
Let's look at a PSR 9000. It has a Vocal Harmonizer. I have paid as much as $750 for an external unit in the past. It has Compressor/Limiter ($300?). It has a sampler ($400?). It has multiple digital effects processors ($400?). It has a pretty good hardware sequencer ($400?). There is much more of course, but you get the picture.
In order to keep costs down, they must try to please everybody with one package, so some of us find some of the features more useful than others.
The features on the GEM that interest me the most are these: Everything in RAM. New sound technology. I LIKE the speakers looking at me, perfect for monitors. (Maybe they could make the swivel to face the audience if the player chooses). I also like the CD Recorder. It is an easy way to get digital info into the computer. I was about to buy a stand-alone Philips recorder ($350?), but will put that off until we check out the GEM.
I wish they had included a place to plug in lights, like the 9000 Pro. And maybe a mic stand adapter. . . Expresso maker . . . microwave . . . TV tuner . . . video camera. . .
DonM
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DonM

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#147179 - 01/23/02 11:54 PM Re: my first Impression of Genesys
sk880user Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 1255
Loc: United States
DonM,

I do not think that adding such conveniences to the keyboard is a such bad idea at all... considering that music is great part of the lives of many of us.

P.S. thanks for the PSR9000PRO price explanation.

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#147180 - 01/24/02 12:07 AM Re: my first Impression of Genesys
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
I say lets wait till it comes out. Play it, and then make opinions about the unit. We all want arrangers for different purposes. I love this one..... You hate that one for whatever reason. I play out professionally everyday....you play at home. Its nice to be able to make choices to suit our needs. When a new product comes out that can make your needs better then they are now, make the choice and go for it. If your happy with what you have now and your music sounds good to you and whoever is listening so be it. I know many people that sound great playing keyboards that are 10 years old go figure. If we all liked the same thing this would be like communist China where everyone dresses and looks the same. When I was a kid my Dad always said at the dinner table "First try it....if you don't like it don't eat it next time"


"Play Music Every Day........."


Donny nj

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#147181 - 01/24/02 12:10 AM Re: my first Impression of Genesys
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Bah, humbug, you're no fun, Donnie
Speculation is where it's at!
When you coming to see me?
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#147182 - 01/24/02 12:22 AM Re: my first Impression of Genesys
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
I'd love to come down south with Uncle dave , Fran and myself on a Road Trip, but our schedules get busier daily. I havn't forgot and I still yearn for some of that great Cajun food like this.....
http://www.virtualcities.com/dining/la/z/laz48r1.htm


Don I'm gonna surprise ya one of these days for sure!

l8tr,

donny nj

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#147183 - 01/24/02 02:57 AM Re: my first Impression of Genesys
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 732
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
Don, another good news is that the slide-out CD-R tray can double as a coffee cup holder!

On a serious note, though, my perepetual pet peeve is with the size of these keyboards. Surely, with a frame of that size, GEM could have easily fit a 76-key manual on the instrument. IMO, PSR2000 is the right size for a 61-key instrument, and Ketron SD1 is the right size for a 76 key one. Any frame bigger than theirs adds NOTHING BUT EXTRA WEIGHT and bulk to the instrument. Why do we need 8 inches of plastic on each side of the keys? When I play, my hands are way too busy to use the joystick or mod wheel, and if I can not control expression with aftertouch and a pedal than I have no use for it. While many people are not like me, and do want to use their joystick or wheels, there are other alternatives: move them up above the keyboard (a joystick does not have to take much room). Another alternative is to replace the wheels with the rolls - one of the old PSR keyboards had that. This way you can control the expression without taking hands off the keys, just use your thumb or palm of your hand. Then there is the innovative approach - use a tension stick (like in IBM and Toshiba laptops), it is just as expressive, and takes no space.

Then there is the issue of storage. I think that floppy disk should be eliminated and replaced with a slot (or two) for a compact Flash card. This will reduce size, weight, and cost of the machine. For us, users, this would mean that we can instantly replace the styles, sounds, OS, songs, etc. of our instrument. Those of us on a budget could settle for 128 MB cards (for $70 or so), while others could splurge for a 1 GB micro-drive from IBM (for about $300).

SCSI is another thing that is redundant: give us USB, which is found on every new computer. It can be used to send control commands, memory dumps, and digital audio (though only 1 pair of stereo signals) over to a PC for recording. While the CD-R is nice, I have a feeling it adds to the cost of the instrument about as much as it would cost us to buy and outboard recorder. And unless you want to record EVERY ONE of your performances, most of the time you will be carrying dead weight (not to mention the extra bulk).

Those are my one and a half cents' worth of comments.

Regards,
Alex
_________________________
Regards,
Alex

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#147184 - 01/24/02 03:43 AM Re: my first Impression of Genesys
Clif Anderson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/00
Posts: 532
I do appreciate that GEM has created a high-end arranger keyboard with lots of features that we have been looking for. If Alex is saying he would like a choice between the model shown and a 76-key diskless road-warrior version, I concur with that as well. Now, if I can just get polyphonic aftertouch implemented in an arranger keyboard.

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