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#146560 - 06/22/05 07:29 AM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1555
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
No, sorry, I'm still in the dark...
Is what you are saying that you need / want to more closely reproduce the sound of any particular musical instrument than can currently be obtained by purchasing any current keyboard or workstation and that therefore the process known as soft synth provides the computer technology to enable you to do so?
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Roger M

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#146561 - 06/22/05 07:58 AM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Starkeeper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1704
Loc: Toronto
Yes. Although there could be more reasons. If I want a better flute voice, I can just buy that. I don't have to upgrade the keyboard to get 1 additional voice.
Starkeeper
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I play Roland EM20 and Yamaha PSR550

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#146562 - 06/22/05 08:18 AM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1555
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Isn't that where the response to Scott's original question should start then...
i.e.
Soft Synth Crash Course
The objective of soft synth is to blah de blah de blah; rather than disappearing off into a welter of technomumbojumbo about the detail of applying soft synth technology using this or that bit of software.
I thought Scott spoke for many when he asked the original question of you guys...
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Roger M

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#146563 - 06/22/05 08:34 AM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Starkeeper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1704
Loc: Toronto
Here is part of Scott's quote (out of context), "I figure that this would be one arranger system that as better sounds and stuff came out, I could hopefully continue updating just the way I want it. Plus the idea of a 6 pound laptop and a 6 pound midi controller keyboard just sounds way too appealling to not at least give this a fair trial."
Starkeeper
_________________________
I play Roland EM20 and Yamaha PSR550

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#146564 - 06/22/05 10:00 AM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by RMepstead:
Isn't that where the response to Scott's original question should start then...
i.e.
Soft Synth Crash Course
The objective of soft synth is to blah de blah de blah; rather than disappearing off into a welter of technomumbojumbo about the detail of applying soft synth technology using this or that bit of software.
I thought Scott spoke for many when he asked the original question of you guys...



I think Scott may already have a fair idea of what his main objective might be for using software sounds vs hardware. I thought he was looking more for a starting point toward a practical solution. I think he already has an idea of "what", but is looking more for "how".

Actually, what we have said about sounds and other reasons for going the software route has been stated here on the forum several times already in the past. One would only need to do a search to see that. The question of using it in a live setup is also very applicable here, since many of the members of this forum play live. It can be done, and I've already done it with no problem. I play keys pretty proficiently, but my live skills overall are only fair at best when I factor in all of the other things that an arranger player needs to do in a solo act. I've adapted to my software just fine, by creating shortcuts that make sense to me and work for me with the help of One Man Band's soft arranger.

The main point is... having a custom yet open based system that meets your needs, and is not dictated by what the few arranger / workstation / synth companies are able to sell to us. Sure, if they realize a majority of customers want a certain feature or sound, there's a good chance you'll see it. If not, no matter how important that feature is to you, you probably won't. With an open based system using software, you choose what works best for you.


Unfortunately, there is some "techno- babble" or "mumbo jumbo" that one needs to grasp a little in order to make a soft based system "sing". Noone who uses this stuff is saying it's plug and play - It isn't. That's the tradeoff, and one that I was willing to accept. I knew almost nothing about it when I started, so it has taken me awhile to grasp some of it, and has cost me some too. and I say for me, it's well worth the effort and money spent. Maybe it is or isn't for the next person.

Frank, I don't know if I'm ahead of you at all, or if I will ever be, but one thing I do know for sure is that you blazed the trail for me to follow. I knew little of this stuff, other than what I would see in a sound magazine or on a website, but I came here and read your posts, and that was the by far the best influence and source of knowledge to help get me going in the right direction.

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-22-2005).]
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AJ

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#146565 - 06/22/05 12:01 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1555
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Thanks Bluesplayer
How far back in search terms do you reckon I need to go to try to understand what you guys are doing, to what end and why - and the keyword(s) would be soft synth would they?
I'm sorry to sound so dim but I just can't work out in my head what the end product is - still I guess Beethoven confused everybody in his day too...
Rog
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Roger M

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#146566 - 06/22/05 12:19 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
RMepstead,
what exactly is your question?

1. What is a soft synth?
2. What you can do with it?
3. why is it better or worse compared to your current setup?

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#146567 - 06/22/05 01:15 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
We've been discussing this for a while now, so search as far back as you like Rog. The word "softsynth" should get you there. You might also have a look at the KVR-Audio site. It's dedicated to the world of softsynths. There are some other great sites listed on Nigel's own Synth Zone main site. Much of what I learned came from going to these sites.

To simplify, a soft synth or Vsti is simply a software sound module. Think of your midi keyboard. When you strike a note, or use your sustain pedal, you're sending a midi message to the sound module inside of that keyboard. A soft synth is also a sound module, it just differs in that your computer hosts it and your sound card plays the part of your audio amplifier.

Think of a VST effect as maybe the Chorus pedal on a guitar, or any of the DSP effects in your kb. Again, your computer and soundcard replace your amplifier or kb.

A host app can be a standalone, such as Chainer or Forte. Think hardware rack. It hosts your vst instruments and effects. You send midi commands to it, and it works like your hardware hosts ( kbs ) do.

An application such as Cubase or Cakewalk Sonar has a virtual rack within, so it can host your vst instruments and effects. It also has a sequencer, like your midi kb, and it also has an audio recorder. It's kind of like a Hardware DAW ( think Korg D series / Tascam Digitals, etc), that can host, or is connected to your effects and sound module rack.

One Man Band, Jammer Live, Live Styler, etc are software aranger modules, that like your hardware arranger, send a special set of midi commands to your sound module based on chords you play, style and vatriation you select, etc.

Literally, you can simply start by thinking "outside of the box". The box in this case being your kb and / or effects rack. Software is simply taking these features, adding the ability to customize them as you wish, and using them in your computer.

Believe me, only a very few years ago I had no idea either how any of this stuff could possibly apply to and work for me. I'm serious when I tell you that without reading what FLR was posting here, I'm probably still playing a 100% hardware based system. The really cool thing is that in the past couple of years, some of this stuff has gotten so good that I could now work without hardware of any kind, save for a midi controller ( or Dumb KB as FLR says it ).

I am a little nostalgic for the old Prophet 5's, the Korg Polysix ( my first real analog ) etc, and all the buttons and knobs, but those things are so old and many are in poor repair if they are available at all. The "virtual" polysix looks exactly like it's real world counterpart, and has the very same quirky sounds to boot. With a midi controller that has assignable knobs and sliders, I can control the Polysix's virtual knobs much in the same way as when I played the real one some 20+ years ago.

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-22-2005).]
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AJ

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#146568 - 06/22/05 04:33 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5225
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Roger,
basically what some of us have done is replace our arranger keyboards with a software version plus a controller.

In my case I'm using a laptop with One Man Band ( OMB) arranger software ( that's the guts that plays the styles, midifiles etc), a digital piano as a controller keyboard ( I use the keys of my digital piano to play chords left hand, melody right hand, left hand triggers the styles the same as on a kn7.
The soundsource for these styles & melody I can use softsynths or a combination of softsynth plus hardware synth ( in my case a digital piano or you could even use a kn7's sounds )

Initially Alec ( Technicsplayer) was to blame for my swap over from kn7 to a software setup. In trying to cheer me up over the demise of Technics back in Jan 04 he told me of a future where computers & software would be the arranger keyboard of the future. His vision may not quite have been OMB and an array of softsynths etc but it started me thinking & checking stuff out.
Fortunately I managed to find Frank & AJ with who's help I managed to bring the envisaged future to the present.
The system is not quite as straight forward to use as our KN7's but it shouldn't become obsolete either.

If I'd kept the kn7, I could have midied my laptop to kn7 , and used OMB software to play PSR styles . No more need to convert psr styles to kn7 format, ( just do the sound tweaking required) My soundsource would have been the kn7, or softsynths or a combination of the 2.

As you may remember ( from kn style group)??, I loved the kn7 for it's style editing & creation functions. Fortunately for me, most of those functions are available in OMB software also.

As for Scott, I beleive he has brought the subject up before so he does have some idea on what we're on about.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by RMepstead:
[B]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 06-22-2005).]
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best wishes
Rikki

SX900, P121 Piano, PA800, Band in a Box 2019
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#146569 - 06/22/05 04:41 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Musikman4Christ Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 17
Loc: USA
AJ,
You said it man! I love my PLG150 VL, the DX and AN boards!! These plug in boards are so awsome man. My favority for Saxophone is the VL, for the FM sound is the DX, and those fat analog sounds, the AN.

Truly remarkable sound!

cheers,

Musikman
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Peace,

Musikman
Email:
Musikman4Christ@yahoo.com

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