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#146580 - 07/02/05 05:04 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5294
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Scott,
sounds like we need a special group (haahaa)that deals with realtime software arrangers in general and a variety of software synths.
It's a bit difficult asking questions about rival software arrangers in groups like omb, and you end up boring users that don't use softsynths.
Only one problem, doubt whether there's enough users interested.

best wishes
Rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Langholff:

I have also mentioned over on the onemanbandgroup forum that I think it would be a super idea if people working on tweaking sounds and styles could have a way of sharing that data, pooling all the resources out there instead of every man for himself. I would think there would be someplace where people could upload there settings for Hypercanvas, another for Super Quartet, another for Kontact, etc. I would imagine that this data would then work either on Live-Styler and also OMB?

Thanx
Scott[/B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

SX900, P121 Piano, Band in a Box 2019
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#146581 - 07/02/05 08:39 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
Scott, you can use Hypercanvas and Super Quartet for accompaniment but you would now need to ensure that the style calls up the appropriate instrument. This would be a little more work than staying with GM or better yet XG formats for Yamaha Styles. This is where using software is flexible so that you can setup a system that best suits your needs.

I use the Roland A37 as my controller keyboard. It is a 76 note keyboard with a good feel and with 128 setups for saving into its flash memory. I have had it for a number of years and seems to standup well.

Rikki is right in that there would not be enough users to warrant a separate user group. Plus those that go this route do things differently from most others and therefore providing information on your setups would not be that useful...I think.

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#146582 - 07/02/05 10:19 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 3106
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
We are having great difficulty getting past square one in getting Live-Styler and One Man Band to work properly. My wife who has computer trainging and in fact built our current computer is assisting me.

We have posted questions on Live-Styler and OMB forum. Can anyone help us get this thing to work like I believe it can. I still really think that once throught the mish mash of getting things set up and working that my future in arranger keyboards will be the soft synth variety, along with being able to have my lead sheets available all on one 6 pound laptop and with a 7 pound midi keyboard controller. I believet that I can make this sound better than the Tyros 2, or any other top of the line model, to be able to have ALL the sounds that I want and still cost considerably less than the 50 pound hardware beasts out there.

Here are the links to the other forums, I hope that I can get this squared away soon because..........grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! haha
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/LiveStyler/message/165
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/onemanbandgroup/message/667

Thanx

Scott

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#146583 - 07/03/05 12:20 AM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5294
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Scott,
there probably are all sort of setups, but this worked for me & my laptop. Bear in mind this setup works with my laptop's internal soundcard.
I use
ASIO4All driver http://www.asio4all.com/
because I don't use a soundcard that supports an asio driver. I need the asio driver for
Forte Ensemble http://www.brainspawn.com/products/forte/
Forte Ensemble I use for either my soundfonts ( via live synth pro) or I could just use Hypercanvas or any of the other softsynths Edirol produce). You do need a program similar to Forte Ensemble ( or chainer or console) to be able to use Hypercanvas in OMB, Jammer Live ( and probably Live Styler??)
Midi Yoke only acts as a midi cable between Forte Ensemble and OMB..
midi yoke http://www.midiox.com/index.htm?http://www.midiox.com/myoke.htm
After you've installed all the above software, my particular settings are as follows for Forte

Options
Preferences

1. Audio Options
Audio Driver Asio ( Asio4all)
Asio Controll Panel
Audio Device ( in my case Sigmatel inbuilt Audio Card)
Sample Rate 48000
Buffer Size 64
KS Buffers 2
"Tick" Force 16 Bit Samples
The above is probably not the best of settings, but at least I don't get crackles & pops. One day if I get a really good external soundcard I'll investigate further)

2.Midi Inputs
Midi Yoke NT 1

3.Main Page Forte I press "ADD"
Instruments & pick Hypercanvas.
Again, there's a lot more can be done with this program, at the moment I'm using bare basics.

Next open OMB.
Settings
Midi IN ( is your keyboard ) in my case USB1
( for my clavinova acting as my usb controller)
Midi Out = Midi Yoke 1
( remember midi yoke 1 was used in Foret as your midi option)

NEVER select the same midi yoke no. for midi in & out in your software ( OMB , Jammer live etc)
ie Midi IN midi yoke 1
Midi Out Midi Yoke 1 you'll probably cause a horrible crash.

Hope the above may help.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scott Langholff:
[B]We are having great difficulty getting past square one in getting Live-Styler and One Man Band to work properly. My wife who has computer trainging and in fact built our current computer is assisting me.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

SX900, P121 Piano, Band in a Box 2019
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#146584 - 07/03/05 06:00 AM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
Rikki, I hope somewhere in your setup you are using effects such as reverb & chorus. If not one of the best places would be in forte Ensemble. There are free effects available on the internet. I use the Sonitus effects which come with Cakewalk Sonar. Equalizers are also helpful.

Scott, if you carefully study midi and its various ports you will find most of your issues with Live - Styler or OMB will disappear. You are in the early stages of this. It won't be long and you will be an expert. In addition, a little knowledge of sending program change numbers and effects will also go a long way to making your system work and sound good.

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#146585 - 07/03/05 05:20 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5294
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Frank,
I've got a heap of effects. I'm still a bit rusty on their useage ( so, I didn't want to advise on something I don't fully understand). I better get out the manual on Forte and do a bit of reading ( haa haa)
I haven't bothered with my Hypercanvas for quite a while, because I like the fonts, if I'm not mistaken, Hypercanvas has it's own effects?
To be quite honest, I'm not sure that I hear that great a difference when I use reverb effect or when I don't. Either I'm doing some wrong, or, keep in mind, I'm actually playing my fonts through my Clavinova's speaker system ie my computer audio out, is plugged into Clavinova audio in.

My Clav has an unusual sound system, it actually has an inbuilt microphone, and a function called IAFC ( Instrumental Active Field Control)

Phamphlet states the following
When IAFC is engaged. The Clav will sound
3 dimensional, just like an acoustic instrument. Sounds picked up by the mic and sounds produced internally are processed and output by a rear speaker to produce ambience and reverberation.
Also, I use the Clav's piano sound for melody, so with that combination, maybe that's why I don't notice a great deal of difference, with or without reverb effect??

For the time being, it actually sounds ok to me. After I get my soundfont library sorted out, I'll be doing further investigating on effects etc.
Me teeny brain hasn't been so active in ages. So much to learn.

Actually I picked myself up a bargain audigy 2 nx usb soundcard the other day on ebay. Couldn't resist. It can play soundfonts, but it has limitations, compared to using Forte, sblive setup.
It doesn't support Asio ( which I was quite aware of) so using it with Forte is out, as far as I can tell unless I use wdm/ks drivers. Unfortunately that gives me too much latency 10ms. Maybe there is a way around it, so that I could use asio driver, but haven't worked on it yet.
Either way it's proved one thing to me, than an external soundcard , does sound a lot better than my laptop's inbuilt card. So down the track, I may be looking for something a bit more professional, but for the time being , it will do quite nicely.
p.s.
It was a fair bit easier to install the audigy than my software setup for playing soundfonts, but I've totally enjoyed the experience.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]Rikki, I hope somewhere in your setup you are using effects such as reverb & chorus. If not one of the best places would be in forte Ensemble. There are free effects available on the internet. I use the Sonitus effects which come with Cakewalk Sonar. Equalizers are also helpful.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

SX900, P121 Piano, Band in a Box 2019
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#146586 - 07/03/05 07:29 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
Rikki, my guess is that if you are not using Reverb or Chorus you would find significant improvements in the sound by adding such effects. The PSR and others automatically add effects and are present all the time (unless you change them). In forte you can add VST/DX effects on the effects part of each bus. The instruments are located on the first section of each bus followed by the effects. I feel this is a very important subject to master. It will improve your sound. I don't use alot of effects but do use some amount even on my very expensive melody/lead voices.

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#146587 - 07/03/05 08:30 PM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
I'll probably go the route that Frank went and get a high quality set of GM samples and / or a higher end soft GM modules in the near future.

Until then, I am rather satisfied when using the SGM180 soundfont with a touch of additional reverb and chorus effect mixed in. I have some higher quality effects packages, yet in this setup, I find that the freeware "Classic" Series Chorus and Reverb plugins do a very nice job of enhancing SGM180.

For the first time since I've owned it ( several years ), I actually like using Band in a Box. It sounds very nice now when I use it with Live Synth Pro and SGM180 and the effects setup I described. In reality, to my ears it is a step up soundwise from Hypercanvas. SGM180 also does a very nice job with OMB and Chainer as my Vst host, particularly when I use non Yamaha kb styles like those from the KN7k and Roland series boards. Again good but subtle ( ie. not overdone ) effects added make a world of difference to me.

I actually think this setup in itself now exceeds anything soundwise that my PA80 can do for me. That's before I add the high quality softsynths that I already have for lead voices. I can only imagine what a higher quality GM set would do for me for the rythyms and styles.

Actually, I have made a few rythym setups up for Chainer, that include Yamaha Blue Jay drums, the B4 organ, assorted basses ( sampled ), and ElectroAcoustic and / or Real Guitar for guitar rythyms. Incredible sounding at times, even with BIAB.

AJ
_________________________
AJ

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#146588 - 07/04/05 05:21 AM Re: Need soft synth crash course.
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
AJ, I agree with you.

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