SYNTH ZONE
Visit The Bar For Casual Discussion
Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#146433 - 09/22/05 09:33 AM Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
I know what you mean chony. Sometimes CD quality sounds TOO real I guess. Nothing beats that warm analog sound That's why so many people haven't completely dumped their 4 track tape deck recorders yet

Squeak
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

Top
#146434 - 09/29/05 12:09 PM Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
VoiceOfSpace Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 15
Chony and others, I completely agree. I have a Tyros myself and the thing with it is that while it does have some great sounds, it also contains a few key element sounds like drums and bass that due to the pseudo stereo phase characteristics create a kind of boxy keyboard like low end that is very hard to get right on a record when you try to immitate the real thing because it sounds kind of flat and bulky. You need to be extremely selective in order to not choose the "wrong" sound and get that boxy kind of sound. This is especially the case with the kick drum and piano sounds in it that sound very "cheesy", partly because of the phase/cancellation. From what I heard on the Tyros 2 demo samples it goes in the right direction, especially with that Power Kit sound, but I could hear quite much cheesyness left, unfortunately...! I think the worst sound in the Yamaha Tyros (1) is the acoustic piano. To me it just doesn't sound close to the real thing, it has a completely different touch and vibe that feels very artificial.

Another thing with the Tyros is the noise in the outputs. While it is not noisy it could be more quiet. For instance my Roland A-90Ex digital piano is more quiet than the Yamaha Tyros and when you start adding tracks and limit you can clearly tell the difference in clearity. With the Yamaha Tyros the mic input is also much too noisy to be used on a professional record. It also has a noise gate that cannot be turned off which ruins the mic input that else can be used with an electric guitar with great results. I hope the Tyros 2 is equipped with digital outputs and a much less noisy mic pre-amp, because having all these great sounds and features and not be able to transfer them cleanly onto a recording is devastating...

Another thing that I think is annoying with the Yamaha Tyros is the way the sounds were sampled. It has not many stereo samples, so for instance without stereo drums you really have a hard time getting a full and wide sound on a record. I hope the Tyros 2 has more stereo samples.

I don't think there will be many keyboards able to compete with the sounds of the Tyros 2 yet, some of the sounds are simply the best immitations by a keyboard. From listening on those demo samples I think mainly the saxophone and the guitar sounds will make it the most advanced keyboard in the world, though still pretty far from the real thing. The goal with a keyboard is to immitate a complete band as good as possible. For reaching this goal key element sounds become extremely important. Obviously much attention is on the drum sounds, since the drums form the base foundation of a good groove, something that is the second most important element of a song (after the vocals/lead element) When listening to that Power Kit sound of the new Yamaha Tyros 2 you notice a huge difference in sound quality from the old Tyros. The Tyros has a very compact, dead and cheesy drum sound that I think will make professionals turn away from it. But the drum sounds of the Tyros 2 have more life and will certainly make the Tyros 2 a far better sounding keyboard than the Tyros, overall, this kind of an improvement in the drum sound section is simply making the keyboard step up a level.

When it comes to the demo samples I am not very impressed but not very dissapointed either. It seems like I'm more dissapointed with the demo sample choices than with the sounds. I would like to hear the acoustic piano of the new Yamaha Tyros 2 more. In my taste that is the the third most important element in a keyboard driven sound. If it is as cheesy and harsh as in the Tyros 1 it is simply not good enough for me because several cheesy sounding elements on a mix simply destroy the whole mix. With the Yamaha Tyros 1 you could add drums, piano and bass and already have a too cheesy low end. If two elements form a cheap low end I think I'm not ready to spend what Yamaha asks for this professional keyboard.

When you listen to the demo samples of the Tyros 2, don't be fooled by the marketing hype. If you listen carefully you will notice that many of those samples still sound very keyboard like and this means that you need to be very selective with sounds even with the new Yamaha Tyros 2. To me this is a little surprise since I thought all those sample layers would create the realism needed in order to create a softer and more realistic vibe. The sound quality has been improved, that's very obvious when listening to the sax, guitar and drum sounds, is it suitable for being used in a professional studio? I'm not sure... I have a feeling that it's mainly those upper freq range sounds you want to use in it, like for instance strings, woodwinds, brasses and flutes, the guitar sound is still to cheesy to use on a record, the acoustic piano (from the little I heard) also seems as cheesy as in the Tyros 1 and so on. I was pretty impressed with the orchestral demo sample, to me it was the least cheesy sounding of them all.

I can only admit that even though many sounds in it don't impress me I'm very interested in this keyboard and I'm glad that Yamaha will launch this keyboard. For me I think it is mainly up to the features of it whether I am going to buy it or not because I know it is not the perfect sound source for using in a recording studio. In that regard it is just like any other keyboard on the market, it sounds very much like a keyboard and that is sometimes good in a recording studio, but mostly not. I prefer clean sounding synth like samples, for instance the low end of a good Roland synth. Right now I think I would like to choose Roland for low frequency sounds (Piano, Bass, Organ), Kurzweil for low-mid frequency sounds (Pads) and Yamaha for high frequency sounds (Orchestral). I would record drums and guitar as real instruments.

Top
#146435 - 09/29/05 12:31 PM Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
Artaher Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/01
Posts: 143
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Great post. Very illustrative, very enlightening to me.
A question. Are your opinions about Tyros leaving from the comparison with others arrangers? Do you think that those Tyros defects are not present in Roland G-70 or Korg PA1?

Top
#146436 - 09/29/05 01:36 PM Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
Starkeeper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1704
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by squeak_D:
Holy Mary! That is the BEST sax I have ever heard on a keyboard. How in the world did they put the sound of the player (inhaling) before playing the next note? The Tyros 2 is going to be one mean ass sounding arranger. I must have listened to that sax demo 20 times.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-20-2005).]



Still want a Tyros 1?
Starkeeper
_________________________
I play Roland EM20 and Yamaha PSR550

Top
#146437 - 09/29/05 02:43 PM Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
That Tyros 2 is going to be nice. However, I was also looking towards the T1 because costs should be going down with the release of the T2.

Squeak
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

Top
#146438 - 09/29/05 03:55 PM Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
rumbero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 15
Loc: france
VoiceOfspace, could you answer to Artaher's question; it would be interesting to have a comparative point of view. Thanks

Top
#146439 - 09/30/05 11:02 AM Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
VoiceOfSpace Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 15
Quote:
Great post. Very illustrative, very enlightening to me.
A question. Are your opinions about Tyros leaving from the comparison with others arrangers? Do you think that those Tyros defects are not present in Roland G-70 or Korg PA1?


Thanks! The "defects" of the Tyros are NOT present in the Roland G-70 or the Korg PA1. But there is a price to pay for this. As you all know the realism of the Yamaha Tyros sounds are quite good in comparison with other keyboards. This is much due to how the sounds were sampled and its DSP engine. A lot of the samples in the Tyros are pseudo stereo samples, that means they have been sampled in mono, copied the track and applied something like a pitch shifter/chorus/delay and then panned hard left and right. But they have also used the phase in combination with this to create the realism. This is very obvious when using a PAZ analyzer. This in turn creates the perception of an acoustic type of sound. While this might work good enough for live usage and sounds great when soloing instruments it is hard to get right on a recording, since layering these kinds of sounds easily create phasing issues or something called "big mono". Now, what you normally do with pseudo stereo samples on a recording is to throw away the wet channel and create your own stereo sound. This normally works great, that's however not the case with the Yamaha Tyros, because when you do there's little natural warmth and clearity left. Take for instance the kick drum or digital piano. While it blends in better in the mix it also dies. Actually it is quite flat sounding. When using keyboards on a recording the ideal sound is a stereo sample that in itself sounds natural.

If you are thinking about going for either a Yamaha Tyros or Roland G-70 and use it as the base foundation of your recorded material, the Roland G-70 WILL sound better! It is quiter and has a much much better low end. It is not as realistic sounding but it hasn't got the cheesyness of the Tyros and that's the key. This means you can use at least drums, bass, organ, accoustic piano with a much better result than with the Tyros! As you noticed I was giving examples of sounds that all are quite heavy rhythm element sounds. This is important to pay attention to since a good sounding rhythm element is much more important for a song than for instance the pad element. Going with the Roland G-70 will give you a clear low end which will give your sound a professional edge which is always nice to build something around. Compared to the Korg PA1 it is also better because the combination of rhythm and pad is better in the Roland, much better. The organ is better, the bass is better and the piano is better. The Roland G-70 probably has been the most professional sounding keyboard so far.

Top
#146440 - 09/30/05 11:21 AM Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by VoiceOfSpace:
the Roland G-70 WILL sound better! It is not as realistic sounding but it hasn't got the cheesyness of the Tyros

If cheesy means 'realistic sounding', then I say: bring on the CHEESE !

Quote:
Originally posted by VoiceOfSpace:

The Roland G-70 probably has been the most professional SOUNDING keyboard so far.

Our 'ears' defintitely 'differ' here. - Scott
_________________________

Top
#146441 - 09/30/05 11:54 AM Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
nardoni2002 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/02
Posts: 673
Loc: malaga, spain
Voice,your opinion is based against the tyros,i copied this from another site ,again its only an opinion of the new tyros 2,but it certainly appeals,,,

Just received a letter from my local music store which highlights the changes you will see on the new tyros 2.
This is the gist of the letter.
Over the last two years there has been 2 significant developments - THAT THE TYROS LACKS.
1. The Korg PA1x - this keyboard took sound quality and expression to a new level - far greater than the Tyros. The only drawback has been the ease of use: things are generally a lot easier on the Tyros.
Justin, my local guru, then goes on to say, if he was given the task of designing the ultimate keyboard, this is what he would do.
1. Keep the same operating system as the Tyros.
2. Add the awsome quality of the Korg PA1x's sounds and rhythms with their amazing expression.
3. Add the USB feature as on the PSR3000 but put it at the front where the disk drive used to be.
4. Ability to easily make a CD and add other 'live' instruments or vocals.
5. Organ section - to make the keyboard comparable in sound to a traditional organ.

Well - THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YAMAHA HAVE DONE WITH THE NEW TYROS 2.

[This message has been edited by nardoni2002 (edited 09-30-2005).]

Top
#146442 - 09/30/05 01:04 PM Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
VoiceOfSpace Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 15
I just want to add that if you are thinking about buying a G-70, wait! First of all, just because the G-70 sounds better than the Tyros in some basic sound categories it doesn't necessarily mean it sounds good enough. To tell you the truth, I would never buy the Roland G-70 myself. As I already said the G-70 is quite and less cheesy in the rhythm element, which makes it easier to process on a recording so that you end up with a good result, unfortunately the price to pay is rather high and this is I think the really interesting thing in the context of these keyboards and the Tyros 2.

The Tyros 2 has a voice realism no other keyboard has, that's simply just a fact. It takes a professional to get it right on a recording though. When comparing each sound category the Tyros will win in most of the categories. Its guitar sounds are absolutely fantastic in comparison, the same with the sax. The drums are among the better, the electric pianos too. The acoustic piano, from what I've heard, is not very impressive, but then you have a whole range of really good sounds like flutes, strings, brasses and some good organs too, all of them compensating well for the bad acoustic piano. The organs and the acoustic pianos are clearly better in the Roland G-70 (from the sounds I've heard). Now, when thinking about its expansion features I think the Tyros 2 becomes very interesting in comparison. Here you have a keyboard that has the best realism in a lot of categories with the chance of getting great sounding rhythm elements some day too...! So I would really choose the Tyros 2 before the Roland G-70, any day...

Instead of going for a Roland G-70 I would choose a good Roland synth instead, that's because you get more rhythm element sounds for the money. You get a clean low end. You get a professional vibe in another range, you don't get any better acoustic piano sound or organ, but you do get better basses and drums! When it comes to a really good sounding low end, for instance bass and electric piano, the Roland IS the winner of them all. It is deep, clean and quite. Comparing that with the low end of an acoustic piano sound in the Tyros is just like night and day! This clean low end is very useful on a professional recording! It doesn't necessarily need to be audible as long as it is there somewhere. What you would normally do with the electric pianos of the Tyros would be to apply a high pass filter just to clean up the low end. You would also turn down frequencies around 400Hz and 800Hz to minimzie the cheesyness. But I think many would really like to layer some low end of the Roland instead just to make it deeper sounding in a clean way, because you want clean frequencies down there when you start mixing for depth with an EQ effect on those frequencies.

Top
Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >

Moderator:  Admin, Diki, Kerry 



Help keep Synth Zone Online