As I was looking into that B3 Eddie posted earlier, I was introduced to a fellow that was doing something that I have long been contemplating. Only, a little different. Gary's post on his new setup also got my creative juices flowing. So i thought I'd share this idea with everyone, because I'm sure you've all had thoughts similar to these...and hopefully, I can get some thoughts and lessons learned from all of you..here goes nuthin....
I have been playing weddings, the service and then the reception, dinner hour, live with a yamaha P-80, and then have done the DJ thing afterwards...kinda an all in one service. It's been received real well, but my biggest downfall is the setup/breakdown time, and all the pieces and cables and computers and wireless stuff and CD players etc etc...you all know the drill. My thought is to gut out a baby grand piano. Stick the digital piano where the normal keys go, and build a custom rack in the back of the piano to house the CD players, wireless receivers, lap top, mixer, lights and power strips. All the extra stuff gets tucked into the baby grand body. Obviously, it would be a heavy beast, and i would need to have a large van to transport and a dolly/transportation device that would enable me alone to roll this pig in and out of banquet facilities...I actually have seen composite baby grand shells that were made for similar uses that were light weight and very strong, but i lost the contact numbers and haven't seen it through an extensive google search. I know lighter and compact is better...but this unique setup intrigues me I guess...it would be different...but perhaps it is much more a hassle than any positive effect it might have. In any case, I need to slim down my bundles of wires and cables into a handsome rig in the line of Gary's setup. My rig includes:

P-80 88 key piano
Mackie DFX-12 Mixer
(2) numark mp3/cd players
Sennheiser wireless mic and receiver
lap top computer
EV Sxa100 powered speakers
Mackie Sub

Obviously, there are speaker stands and all the supporting stands and accessories...I looked into modifying a podium to hold everything, and just put the P-80 out front for the dinner portion, then utilizing the podium..That would be clean and light. Also have contemplated building my own custom booth for everything...

any thoughts?? Thanks B2

B2,
Sounds like a lot of stuff to haul around, and there are some ways to eliminate a lot of that equipment. First, you could run the m MP3s and CDs using only the laptop and the associcated software, thereby eliminating the CD/MP3 players and their associated wiring completely. I'm not all that familar with the EV Sxa100 powered speakers, but if they have a built-in mixer, you could also eliminate the mixer and control all your volumes independently from the piano and mic reciever, and CD/MP3 volumes with the laptop.

As for the Baby Grand shell, you would need either a roadie or a forklift in your van--they suckers are really heavy, even when gutted. You could probably get away with a relatively small enclosure that would house all of your accessory equipment that would make set-up and tear-down times a breeze.

Cheers,

Gary

hi B2,i have no experience of what you do ,but i think its a brilliant idea ,can you imagine the publicity you could build on that,(this guy actually brings his own grand piano,no, i don,t believe it)get some friends to ring the local papers ,radio stations,of course your opening song would have to be with the piano,get yourself a van,a winch and some slopes,and paint the piano white with a black line top and bottom,it will make it look bigger,its a new idea i,d say go for it,mike

I have more than a few friends that travel with empty shells and stuff them with digital pianos. One guy has a very lightweight mock-up (that was never a real piano)and it looks just as good as the real thing. Another made a 2 piece unit that has cloth (drop down) sides that make the curved shape easier to transport. Another has a real, live wooden shell that was gutted - ugh...heavey.

The concept is good. People like the look of a grand piano, more tips are generated (fact, not fiction) when a grand is played, so it may be worth the extra effort.

My take is different:

I am selling a very diverse pckage that includes many of the same elements that Brian offers: piano/vocals/DJ/MC .... yada, yada, yada ....
The difference is - I never try to load up the stage for the sake of bulk.
The general opinion of the uneducated public is that we are glorified DJ's anyway, so even if the disk comes from a kb, a PC or a CD player .... we are perceived as DJs. We can be singing our hearts out and playing up a storm, and some people will still believe that the core sound package comes from a disk. In many cases - they are not so wrong. We all use automation. Some more than others. I use more today than yesterday .... ( hmmm, catchy ! ) but I still pride myself on being ABLE to do it without the toys when needed. Automatic backing tracks, sequences or Karaoke disks are all the same in the eyes (and ears) of the audience. They are a normal, everyday paqckage that has been shoved down the throats of club goers for years. You can thank Karaoke for that, but it's not all bad. If people need an outlet to blow off steam, and singing badly while embarrassing themselves in front of a crowd is how they do it .... and they want to pay US to help - then so be it. The gauntlet has been thrown and the challange has been made. It's up to us to accept or reject the challange. 20 years ago, I used certain cassette tapes to enhance my performances, and them switched to MD, then to CD, and now ... MP3. The times, they are INDEED-a changing.

Simple facts:
1) Entertainers need work.
2) People need to have fun
3) Party crowds can be better served with a mix of live/DJ. More age groups can be pleased with more mediums.

My simplest rig allows me to do all facets of the entertainment spectrum.
CD playback from the laptop (odd requests)
MP3 playback from the laptop (dance tunes)
Live songs from the kb (psr2100 right now)
seq songs with live piano parts (2100/LT)

The only difference between the small jobs and the larger jobs is the sound system. More room to cover - more speakers.
Less room - less speakers.
Tiny, background situation - NO speakers.(external, that is)

So Brian, I applaud your desire to offer a diverse and marketable product, but I think you will get the same ammount of jobs with a smaller kb/CD/PC housing that travels easier. There are great looking DJ tri-folds that have 1 or 2 shelves and fold flat for travel. They look great - protect the gear and hide the wires.

Check into something like that before you get a hernia. Cocktail hours can always be done a a real piano at many places. Just bring the LP in and set it on top. (if you need it) After Cocktails....you're already set up for dancing ... just take your place at the helm of whatever medium you need to satisfy the crowd. It's all good, no matter how you get them there .... the important thing is the journey. Have a great trip everybody - the waters getting rough out there, and there's fins to the left .....

To be considered professional, we have to look professional. However, it is easy to go overboard and have soooo much equipment that you might as well have your paycheck made out to your Chiropractor.

I have to agree with Uncle Dave. I have several different setups and more often than not use more than is necessary. Funny thing is, before I had all this stuff, I did just as well with much less. (But, I really love my STUFF.)

My DJ friend, Brian referred to, with the empty Grand shell, works like a dog setting up and tearing down (and he ain't no kid). It takes him over an hour to wrestle the equipment out of a trailer,onto a stage and set up. And, his audiences still judge him by his repertoire and sound...not the gingerbread. And, after the last song, he has to to tear it all down and wrestle it back into the trailer. With all the equipment and extra work he puts into it, he feels justified in charging top dollar and gets very upset when he loses jobs to those who have less and charge less.

He and I have talked about this. He IS the best around, but gets priced out of a lot of jobs and gets upset about it. He will set up the same gear regardless of the size of the party or fee he charged.

Where he shines are the longer term gigs in classy lounges where he doesn't have to move his stuff for weeks at a time. But, for one-nighters, I think he is nuts. And I have told him so.

My philosophy is to concentrate on the quality of music and enterainment value and eliminatate any heavy duty fluff that that is not cost-justified.

Brian, I know you are very concientious, and like all of us here, are anxious to please our audiences. I also suspect your wedding related gigs may not fit into the mold of the jobs that many of us here play. My experience is that weddings bring top dollar and worthy of extra work.

If that is your situation and you can get what it is really worth, I would say "Go for it". But, the average one nighters are not worth the trouble and are not appreciated.
Eddie

All that equipment is suicide doing quick doubles with 1 & 2 hrs in between gigs!!
Lightweight with a big sound is my recomendation!

I also add everthng that Uncle Dave said!

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses..
I wrestle with the quantity or "bulk of gear" vs the lightweight clean set-up issue alot. In my situation, I play twice a month, max. But no kidding, it takes me an hour to set up and do a sound check...now granted, I show up early, introduce myself to the bartenders and servers and take my time, but it's 7-8 trips to the van...speakers (3), stands, one huge tupperware full of mixers/cables/mics etc, tuxedo, personal bag, P-80 (55lbs...I do miss the PSR 2000)stand, bench, laptop and briefcase...phew...I do have a dolly...but I need a serious makeover and a clean setup that I don't have to attach every wire and cable to every orifice...every time I set up..

With Hockey and dance and the Military job full time, and leading worship at our church twice a month, (you all know the drill) I promised my family I wouldn't get too involved at this point in life. But you know, I could spend more time at home if I could set up quicker and get home quicker....My biggets concern is CLEAN looking and easy up and down. I just haven't had the time to devote to researching the many stands/setups like Gary and the rest of you have developed. It's frustrating wanting to do more, but knowing I can't yet....So I think the answer is "now"....lighter and quicker is better...and later, when and if this becomes more full time...look into building or buying a more extensive set-up that can be set-up at a regular type job where it is moved less frequently....That is likely the prudent thing, and as you have all pointed out, it's how you sound that counts...the fluff will be nice later..if at all...So, on to developing a clean setup....

Sound system wise, I think I have plenty of crisp, clean, output capable of many decibles of music...The EV's and the Mackie Sub (singular) are great together, however, that Mackie truth be told, is killing me...I only bring it for the bigger banquet halls...

BTW, Uncle Dave, do you utilize a DJ software on your laptop to control the CD's....are you completely free of CD Players??? I have musicmatch and about 2000 mP3's, but I still have the "promo only" and the platinum bible on CD's...have you transfered all of that onto your laptop??? if so, do you bring a back-up CD player/laptop and how do you fade between songs on the laptop....

Thanks again everyone....I am stuffing all this into my cranium. It never ceases to amaze me how informative this "Forum" is...best on the block...Cheers B2

[This message has been edited by B2 (edited 10-02-2003).]

Just a quick comment on what UD mentioned in his post. I have found that playing the piano with zero backing and utilizing my God given ability to play, and sing, has been very gratifying..I do not profess to be the worlds greatest at either, in fact , I'm sure I'm somewhere in the middle of the pack...but I found that people really appreciate the fact that I'm offering a mixed package. Sometimes, in the middle of the DJ set, I move to the piano to play slow songs instead of playing a CD...or give the rowdies a rendition of piano man...It really is something different, not because I'm good at it, but because it's different from what they're used to and I think a bit more personal..kinda kills 2 birds with one stone so to speak. In truth, The DJ thing was not what I wanted to do...again, being truthful, if it was left to me to play and sing and fill a dance floor, I wouldn't get many jobs because my repitiore (can't spell) is very limited for now. This way, I get to work on songs and build my stash slowly over time, and fill a need for weddings as a DJ too...so, as has been stated many times here..you gotta be true to yourself, know your limitations and do what you enjoy...which is why all of you are so successful....Brian

Some random thoughts on this topic:

"Shell": I was using a self-designed keyboard shell at one time that was essentially three pieces, a large flat back and two sides, hinged with removable shelves. The idea was that the keyboard stand would look sort of like a Hammond B3 when in use, with the sides folding in and locking when the shelves were removed. I also had cord managers and a power strip inside of it so no cords were visible from the audience's perspective. It held two 76-note keyboards and it worked and looked great. The guys who did the carpentry work actually started making them en masse and selling them for churches and home use (but no longer do). And a rock band saw my stand and designed something similar for themselves in flat black. Still it was more work than I cared to go to and required a van to transport: it was heavy and I was always scared of scratching it up.

Also more recently I was using a wheeled QuickLok "Z" stand with a mixer/EQ and all of the power supplies/cords etc. mounted to it. I rolled it fully assembled in and out of a van. This worked and was quick setup but it was very heavy. I parked the beast in my studio.
I now use a Quik-Lok Monolith stand with no setup time.

MP3/CD player: I use a Creative Labs Nomad with a 20GB hard drive - plenty enough storage for thousands of files so I never need CD's. I also use it occasionally for recording my gigs live (yep it's a recorder too). Very handy.

Amp: I still have a full JBL EON-based PA if/when called for but mostly I use my Motion Sound KP-200s for everything. One piece complete stereo amplification system.

Current system: Yamaha 9000 Pro, Monolith Stand w/bench, KP-200s amp, Nomad. Setup/takedown time is about ten minutes and it all fits easily in a VW Cabrio.

Since I started using the laptop, I only use the Nomad Jukebox for recording myself. I play MP3s fromt he laptop. Winamp allows you to add songs to the playlist in real time, and Winamp fades the next one in if you wish.
I can play CDs from the laptop if necessary, in case a client has a song on his own CD that he HAS to hear.
As UD says, provide what the customer wants.
DonM