I've been going to a lot of jazz clubs lately, to sort of acclimate myself back into the world of gigging. The experience has been humbling, to say the least. It is amazing to me how many SUPER-competent musicians there are, out there. Unless you've got your sh*t together, the Atlanta area is not the place to ply your craft. It's probably like how I envision Nashville for country musicians. These guys are NOT entertainers, they're musicians. What's worse (on the ego), is how young some of them are.

The keyboardist I saw the other night (playing a Motif ES 88key) couldn't have been more than 22-23 yrs old and his technique and mastery of the music was nothing short of astounding. Very humbling, indeed. Plus, he was very nice and modest to the extreme (no self-proclaimed King, here). He must have been one of those guys Scott alluded to that spent his time practicing instead of posting. I'm guessing he never heard of SZ. One interesting thing, he (appeared to) use only one voice all night (some el. piano). He probably could/should have used a digital (stage) piano. The rest of the group consisted of bass, drums, guitar, and female vocalist. Bassist and drummer were older (40's) guys, tasteful and rock solid; the guitarist (mid 20's) was spectacular, with the fastest runs I've ever seen on guitar (and he made it look effortless), the vocalist (30ish) was decent but not up to the level of the musicians (great looking, though). Anyhow......

After going through some mild depression in which I couldn't bear to touch a keyboard, I finally decided it was time to go back to some serious practicing. I also applauded my decision to do the "organ trio" thing, as there aren't many groups doing this format and that maybe I could at least be "king" of the organ players .

I always thought the musicians from my generation were better than todays batch; not anymore. Oh well, back to the basement to practice. Gotta work on some new licks that nobody can possibly duplicate.

chas (the humble)

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 09-17-2007).]

Chas,

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Many of the younger musicians I've encountered lately were absolute masters on the keys and strings. It's very humbling to say the least. However, on the flip side I've encountered some young musicians that have come up to me at the end of the evening and said how much they enjoyed the music and vocals I provided and asked for business cards.

Good Luck,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

chas ... Providence RI has this 'event' called "Waterfire" http://www.waterfire.org/ ... At one location they have a "Jazz Stage" ... last year I saw a quartet - piano, bass, drums, sax - the OLDEST was 17 yrs old ... I told my wife those kids hadn't been BREATHING long enough to learn what they knew about music ... AMAZING ...
Fortunately, there are a lot of young, serious musicians out there ...
t.

Gary, that's the respect shown to someone who does what he does very well. That's a tribute to your professionalism.

chas

Don't feel like you have to be King. There is a lot of room for all of us pawns to have fun and make a few bucks. But keep practicing any way.

...but, but, but, I WANT to be king...like D.... Oh well, if I want to be king, guess I'll have to move to some small town in South Dakota (pop. 200), or maybe .....Destin, FL. Hmmm, now where did I put those Hawaiian shirts and flip-flops .

chas

Hey, you can take over for me. I'm actually thinking seriously about leaving SD for Nashville. Only my little town has 3000 people, but I'm confident you could with effort rise to the top here.

The true test of humility is whether you can say grace before eating crow.

Come on down, chas... all are welcome!

'Tis better to rule in hell...'

Nobody at all doing organ trio jazz 'round here. You'd be the de facto 'king'... Just as long as I can be the Jester...

Years ago, I was playing with my long-time partner and mentor, Tommy Johnston, at a supper club in Frankfort, Kentucky called the Midland Tavern.

A young guy was dancing...boots, jeans, etc., while everyone else was dressed nicer. Must have been about my age at the time, 22-23. Tommy was about 45 at the time.

He had a request for the Tennessee Waltz, so Tommy (the show-off) played it as a jazz waltz, like the Gravy Waltz.

The kid came up and said..."don't mess with the tune".

That pissed off Tommey, so he asked if the kid played. The young guy said he played trumpet. "Well, go get that bad boy". Tommy was going to bury the kid as he had done to many others.

The kid came back with a paper sack, coverig a beautiful Benge trumpet in a leather case. Tommy called "Four", smiled and asked the kid "What key"?

The kid said "stock", hit the first note running, and Tommy was scuffling like mad.the smirk had disappeared.

Turned out the kid was an Eastman graduate on tour with the Stan Kenton band. He was on vacation visiting his family in a nearby town.

The kid said he was not showing any disrespect, but that nothing was gained at playing anything but the "straight" version of that tune for the older lady that requested it.

There are some GREAT younger players out there, and, that night, my crusty old partner learned a valuable lesson.

So did I.


Russ

That's the thing about younger players... If you don't go out to clubs where they hang, if you don't listen to radio stations that play them... what right has anyone to make ANY comment about them? Judging from an uninformed position only makes the judge look stupid, IMO.

Yes, you have to wade through a barrel of whale-dreck to catch the few really good ones, but when has that EVER not been the case?

Actually, our beloved arrangers are quite a part of the problem. Once you say to yourself 'I don't need any other musicians, now', you remove the need (at least, in your OWN mind!) to constantly go out an LOOK for these players. AND, you remove the pressure on yourself (from these other, hopefully great players) to get better yourself, too. No arranger has EVER, at the end of a song, turned to me and said 'your ass was dragging on that one!'.

Hearing that (when it's true!) is one of the MOST important reasons to play with real players as much as possible, even if only an addition to your arranger if not an outright replacement. I must confess, there is something about arranger players that makes them not necessarily the most humble musicians out there. A lack of feedback from the arranger MIGHT have something to do with that...!

That's a valuable lesson for us all. But can't we still hate 'em for being so good, so young? How'd they get so good so quickly? Could it be that they were out practicing scales while we were out practicing licks (to impress girls and bar patrons). Could it be that they're just flat-out more talented? Nah. The secret, I'm sure, is the amount and level of classical training. There are some who believe that too much training kills creativity and "soul". What a bunch of horse hockey that is. Training, technique, and mastery of one's instrument, only allows you the freedom (and tools) to express that creativity. Believe me, the ones who excel in this business without the training are the exceptions, not the rule.

I also think (and this will come under fire) that the best and most accomplished musicians are to be found in the jazz ranks. Not the most successful, the most accomplished. I'll bet that if you asked every guy in the Tonight Show band or Letterman's (Paul Schaefer), they'd describe themselves as jazz musicians, with few, if any, describing themselves as rock, pop, blues, or country musicians. If you don't think this is true, stick a chart in front of a musician from any of the other genres' and listen to the deafining silence.

What makes a fine, successful musician? Three things; talent, drive, and training. So if you've got the drive and the training and still can't catch a break, even here on SZ, here's a clue; it's the TALENT, dummy.

chas

But give a jazz player a country chart, and although he will have no trouble going through the changes, will he be able to make it sound country? or merely hokey?

Probably hokey. But then again, they don't teach that "nashville" notation at the conservatory. Hey, just kidding. I have a lot of respect for the nashville studio aces. They're known to be some of the finest musicians around.

chas

I recently played a 3 hour outside job for a car show. A local chamber symphony was practicing in a room behind where, as they were up after me. They could read music and were trained, but to my astonishment, it was AWFUL. As I picked out the individual instruments, I could hear plain garbage. Just because one has years of site-reading/training, doesn't mean they have a FEEL for music. So there's always a flip side to everything. IF YOU HAVE THE FEEL FOR MUSIC, IT WILL GET YOU FAR.

...and if it's supplemented by training, it will get you even farther.

chas

But classical training can actually work against you. Many of the musicians i have played with learned to play clasically first and play beautifully when the music is in front of them but take it away ......and they are lost. I think that training is very importnat and so is technique but passion and talent are so much more important. Having the passion means that you want to learn, having the talent means that what you learn is embedded more quickly. The guys I play with at church ( i am talking musical instruments !) Listen to a whole lot of excellent gospel jazz musicians and they learn almost entirely by ear. They spend hours upon hours listening and then replicating what they hear and then inovating on what they hear in every key. Thats how they become so versatile. Thats how they develope a depth of an appreciation of music far beyond their years. And they are always eager to learn new progressions and riffs and apply them in new situations.They seem far more adapt at changing the styles they play than any classically trained musician i know !

Man, I guess I went about it all wrong. I just wanted to get drunk and laid when I started.

R.

As good a motive as any, maybe better than most.

chas

After all, how do you think the NEXT generation of young players are going to get conceived...?

Don't know if this is gonna work or not.
http://home.bellsouth.net/s/s.dll?ep=62700&only=y&PT=8&_pgoffset=1095&articleid=5425487


Ok, I tried it, it works. Ignore the beginning ad and wait for the CNN spot.


chas

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 09-23-2007).]

I get to some AT&T sign-in page. we have to be members of something to see this?

I didn't think so, 'cause it works for me, but that may be because AT&T is my carrier. I'll see if there's another way to view it, maybe CNN's site.

chas

Try this link and click on "the next generation of jazz". High school students. Inspiring.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/09/23/vo.nc.nooses.high.school.wxii

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 09-23-2007).]

that is coming from the Monterey Jazz festival that is going on this weekend. I didn't go because it is raining here, (can you believe that?), but I bet Scott Yee is there because he is from there. He will let us know all about it
I only live about 50 miles from Monterey but it has gotten to be such a tourist trap we don't go there anymore.
thanks for sharing Chas
Bebop

that was cool. I wish they'd have played longer music clips. Brings up memories of 96 and 97, my last couple years of high school. The highlight of those years for me was attending jazz week at the International Music camp in Canada. Actually, kind of the border of North Dakota and Canada. Kids from all over, from Austrailia to Sweden. Good times those; working with and learning from some of the best jazz educators in the country. I was priveliged to be in the honor band both years I attended. I so wish I had known about that all throughout high school. but I will always thank the Rabers, our music teachers my last 2 years of high school, for letting me know about that and encouraging me to try out.