I am in the market for a new keyboard to use with my band on gigs, but haven't yet decided but Yamaha do seem to be winning sound and interfacewise. Because I play with a 6 piece band "Arranger Keyboard" features aren't really necessary ( although nice to have at home ! ) so I am leaning towards the Motif6 at present, which I liked, is light and will fit in my Camaro with 2 amps, stand and 2 guitars. While I don't want to spend too much I dismissed the Triton LE for both its sound and keyboard feel. Plus the interface didn't seem like something I wanted to use on stage. I need to check out Roland's recent offerings such as the Fantom or even the VA76 although they are priced a little higher than say the Motif6. I am still using a Roland JV880 for the past 10 years which has some great sounds though it's piano is a little weak for using live. Lately playing gigs I have just been using a PSR-550 which while being quite useable and light to carry has a very smeared sound quality and cheap keyboard so I do need to find something around the $1000-$1500 mark that will do the job.

While I don't need an arranger keyboard, but if one fits the bill then I would certainy like to have those features for songwriting at home. I had thought about the PSR 2000/2100 but reports of the cheap keyboard action put me off trying that as an option.

Hi Nigel,
i play in a Rock-Pop-Disco-Coverband (six-people). I've tested and owned a lot of keys the last years - from Emu Sampler to Triton and Kurzweil PC2 and XV.
I must admit that it took a long time to accept that an "dancemusic arranger keyboard" fits best for my needs. But even while i owned other synths i mostly used the G1000-Sounds. The last gigs i played only with G1000 and it worked well. The natural sounds are great over PA. Many Synth i tested are great on headphones but disappointing playing over PA against real drums and distorted guitar.
Now i've changed to VA76. Main reasons were the number of voices (128) and the new stereo pianosound (great!!). Both natural and synth-sounds are superb.
It's a great keyboard for gigs for all kind of muisc.

Many greetings
Volker

Nigel,

I can't say for sure because I don't know your taste in sounds, but if you dismissed the Triton Le, and you're looking for "good out of the box", I'm not sure if the Fantom will fit the bill either. The sounds for the most part are very "thin". The Motif is a nice board, despite my recent complaints about the polyphony. If you're not making layered sounds with multiple samples, the polyphony likely won't be a big deal. The Motif 6 is compact enough, not too terribly heavy ( although it's a bit more than say my PSR2k, and has a much more solid key feel than the PSR2000 does. It also has some very nice sounds "right out of the box".

If you really want that arranger, the PA60 is in your price range too. For my ears it has better out of the box sounds than the Triton Le. When I say better I mean the raw samples might ( or might not ) be similar but there is much more attention paid to producing the right mixes and effects on the "panel voices", therefore better sounding patches..esp the acoustic voices. An important point for you since you mentioned it, the key feel is not as solid as the Motif, but much more solid than the mid range PSR line.

I like the VA76. I can only speak from the perspective of someone who has spent only a few hours playing one, but.. for me, the key feel is decent, the styles are good, and a lot of the sounds seemed to be very nice as well. What I didn't like was the OS and navigating the board itself. This was my chief complaint with the G1000 as well. In spite of that, I'd own one if funds / space permitted.

AJ

Nigel,
Buy the 2000/2001 and you'll never look back--there's a huge difference between the 2000/2001 and the 550. As for the key feel, hey, it's not a piano--it's a synth--two different instruments. If you really want it to feel like a piano, slip a strip of foam rubber beneath the keys. I did that to a friend's keyboard and he raved about the great key feel. He was an accomplished piano player. The sweet sounds, incredible guitars, excellent piano and all the other features make the 2000/01 the best keyboard on the market for the money.

Cheers,

Gary

My choice for a band would still be the 9kpro, but there is a new offering from Roland that caught my eye too. I think it;s a "760" number, but I'm not sure. It's not an arranger - but more like 3 separate kb's in one:
1-drawbar organ
2-dedicated piano
3-programable synth

It's set up in 3 sections so you can play any of the 3 alone or together, and having the waterfall keys and real drawbars is way cool. It's a nice feel, maybe 76 keys but I didn't look at it that long.

I still think the 9kp is the best feeling, best sounding, best built, best featured kb for band use ever. (Wish it was black)
Thw psr line up is not in the same league when it comes to construction,
and Gary - there is a huge difference between "synth action" and whatever it is that yamaha did to the 2000/1000 line. That's more like "toy sponge action". (but I've beat THAT horse enough ! )
Motif has the best rhodes sounds out there, and great organs too. You have your work cut out for you Nigel ..... Happy shopping !


[This message has been edited by Uncle Dave (edited 07-02-2003).]

I played the last board ( Roland 760 or something or other ) that UD refers to the other day when I demoed the Fantom S. I'm not sure of the model # either, but there is no mistaking the board when you see it. Great Organ sounds, like nothing on any of the arrangers we play and talk about here.
I agree with UD. The key feel on the 2000 is similar to the feel from the 500 / 700 series PSR's. It isn't very good at all. I like my 2000, but it doesn't feel very sturdy, the key feel is mushy and because of this it's mainly relegated to being a backup in case my PA80 goes down ( though the PA80 has never given me any trouble at all ).

I also agree with UD on the Motif rhodes sound. It's outstanding. The organs are very good too. The AC piano is nice ( even the GM one ). The board is a pretty good "all in one" for a wide variety of sounds. Of my 3 boards, I would choose it over the PSR2000 and PA80 for playing in a band. By the way, the sounds are good on the 2k, but it's not really in the same league as the Motif in that area either. Especially if you want to do anything at all using synth patches.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 07-02-2003).]

Uncle Dave knows his stuff!!
Plus he's a good cook

While I fully agree with UD's comments on using the 9000 Pro with a band (because that's what I do), I think it's overkill for that particular application unless you want to sink a lot of money into just one arranger instrument that can carry practically any solo or band gig. Even so, I'm not thrilled with Yamaha's recent attitude towards the 9000 Pro and I'm not sure if I'd recommend buying one anymore. Mine has an uncertain future.

If I was going to buy an inexpensive, relatively light and small keyboard just for band gigs, I'd certainly consider the Kurzweil KME-61 for around $699. I haven't actually played one of these yet but I love Kurzweil sounds and this looks awesome for the price.

Also, if you're thinking about a new Motif then you might want to check out my thread on the new Motif ES that is coming out this October. Not only will the new Motif be pretty cool and feature things like USB connectivity and the Mega-Voice guitars from the Tyros but Yamaha is offering a special upgrade program for existing Motif owners to trade up to the ES. Yamaha plans on putting these old Motifs back out on the market at reduced prices, so whether you are in the market for a new Motif ES or the current Motif, the market is about to change soon.

Nigel,
I just got the word a few days ago that we can sell the motif 6 now for under $1500.00 and this is a great value. The Motif keyboards have been seen on almost every major tour with bands all over the world since it's introduction. It's sounds, sampling, sequencing and user interface, makes it a very popular piece.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

So what's the stigma with playing an arranger keyboard on stage with other musicians? I play with an oldies band; 4 musicians and 3 singers. I play with a Korg Triton and a Yamaha Tyros. I use the natural sounds of the Tyros using ultra-quick patch changes and the Triton I use for Synth, Piano, Sax, and brass sounds. I setup all my patches in sequential order and can quickly select the approprate patch for the song using the Bank Select buttons on the Korg.

The beauty of owning the Tyros is that when I'm not performing, I use it to rehearse and compose using the arranger features. It's an invaluable tool as all arrangers are.

Hey, it works for me...

Al

[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 07-02-2003).]

Nigel,
If George is able to sell a Motif 6 for under $1500, that's one hell of a deal. The Motif is an awsome synth. Great sounds, good key feel, and I personally think the OS is quite easy to understand. I can totally understand what you mean when you say "smeared sound" when using the 550 to perform with.. I personally found the 550 to sound best through small monitor speakers such as the Roland Micro's I sold a while back. The internal speakers are ok, but I've played that board through several amps, and all I can say is BLAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH... It's that damn headphone output jack. If the 550 had a seperate left and right output like the models above it, I think the sound would be better.. Anyways, that Motif is awsome. I've played it several times, and I fell in love with it the first time.. Great pianos, good electric pianos, funky guitars, with cool arp patterns used for some of them on the presets, easy to use sequencer, and a whole lot of other good things too..

Squeak

Thanks to all for the great advice on this thread. It reinforces my thought that the Motif 6 is probably the way to go. Although the PSR 2000/2100 sounds like a good deal I think the keyboard feel may put me off. I don't mind synth action keyboards at all, but some are better than others. Just comparing the Motif 6 with the Triton LE confirmed that for me. Don't get me wrong I think the Triton LE is great value but it's just not as strong in the sounds that I need to play in a cover band. 90% of the time I am using acoustic piano, Rhodes piano and Hammond B3 type organs so these sounds are the most important to me. The band I play with are covering 60s/70s/80s/90s rock songs so these are the bread and butter sounds I need. But occasionally I do use brass and synth pads so it does help when these are good quality also.

But I will also try Roland and Kurzweil keyboards again before I make up my mind. It sounds like I need to take a drive down to George's store in Reseda and see what sort of deals he has going before I decide. The Motif 6 is still looking like the top contender for now especially if its price is being lowered.

Thanks to you all. I really do value your thoughts and opinions. It helps me a lot in making up my mind on what may be best to get. I have read through all the responses here and appreciate your combined experience in helping to make my decision. You are all a great source of info.




[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 07-02-2003).]

Nigel, can you wait 3 months before purchasing another Keyboard? Because if you can the new Motif ES may be worth the wait. More features, more Polyphony, more Sample RAM, More WAV ROM, more, more, more. Get the picture? And the clincher is it's supposed to be only $100 MORE than the current Motif' selling price. Plus you will have the best looking Keyboard on the planet. PS: I owned the original Motif 7 for a short while and I have to say it was an awesome Keyboard (sound wise). I got rid of it because the OS and Keyboard were brand new and had irritating bugs "which they have since fixed". But I didn't want to deal with them and wait for an OS update which could have been agonizingly slow in coming. I would guess that the new Motif ES will be even better sounding too and I would think they have all the bugs ironed out by now since they've had time (2 years) to refine the OS and Keyboard.

Best regards,
Mike

Thanks very much for pointing that out Mike. I am not really in any urgent hurry to upgrade and may well think about waiting to see this new generation Motif. I always prefer to buy 2nd generation gear especially when onboard software is involved.

Nigel, you don't say what sort of sounds you need. If you don't need the synthy stuff the Yamaha S03/30/08/80/90 could do the job although the 08/80/90 could be a bit big/heavy.

Yes, they would all be too heavy. While I have a weighted controller at home I just want a 61 key synth action to carry to jobs, that I can plug the weighted controller into when I am back home again.

Camaros weren't made to carry 88 note keyboards easily and I really don't want to have to lift one in and out either.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 07-03-2003).]

Just out of curiosity has anyone used the E-Mu Vintage Keys keyboard ? I heard it also has good electric pianos and synths. Don't know if it has an acoustic piano or not.

The model that Uncle dave suggested is the Roland VR-760. I haven't heard it, but the specs make my heart go pitter-patter. Real drawbars for the organs, pianos from there RD and FP series, expandable via SRX cards, 76 notes, waterfall keys. If you try one of these babies. let us know what you think.
Starkeeper

I actually played the VR-760 a few weeks ago. I kept looking at the price tag wondering how I could swing purchasing it and hoping the price would go down each time I looked.

This keyboard would be PERFECT if it only included BRASS, FLUTE, and SAX voices.

The Hammond sounds will knock your sox off. The Piano voices also stand out as excellent, great Rhodes and Wurly sounds. The synth sounds are great too. I really liked the keyboard feel very much. The d-beam controller was really cool in that you can turn the Leslie on fast or slow with the simple wave of the hand. I've never used the d-beam during a performance, but it really looks interesting.

I recommend you check it out.

Al

wow guys, looking at this board makes my heart beat faster. It would be a great addition to my G1000. I have to go find me a store around here that carries this board.

Maybe the next Roland KB will look like that only wqith an Arranger included {wink}

Arno,
They have them all over the netherlands, no problem to get one.
Lowest price I saw so far was Euro 2574,--

I am in the market for one too.
It will be a choice between gem pro mega or the vr-760.
I 'll have to wait though till we have had our vacation...

Nigel,
I would definately cheque the roland out.
It looks like a nice solution in a band!
We are playing mainly 60 and 70ties rock and it sure looks like it is all I need.
If the hammond is as good as the revieuws say it is, I'm sold..

Fred

The VR760 has the best organ sounds I've heard ( subjective of course ) since I actually played on a B3. Great Rhodes emulation too, maybe as good as the one on the Motif. I don't know how heavy it is though. The 760 definitely has caught my attention, as I like to play a similar style to what you do want to do Nigel. The staple sounds it excels at are perfect for 60's and 70's era rock. Still, I don't think I'd give away the Motif to get one, polyphony issues or not. I need that extra synth editing power it has, and while the 760 seems to have some synth sounds that may be programmable, I'm not sure it can compete with the Motif in that area, especially with the AN150 plug in I have in it. Still, I would love to have the VR760....

I'm not doing anything yet 'til I see the Motif ES, so for the time being, I'll live with what I have. You have some good choices out there Nigel. Now ya just have to wade through them all to see what fits you best.

AJ

Good one Dnj. That would put Roland ahead of Yamaha!! Nah. That'll never happen.
Starkeeper

hmmm... the user comments on the VR 760 on Harmony Central are not so positive...
http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Roland/VR-760-01.html

Dreamer, I did not see negative reviews..Of the people that posted, I am not even sure they know enough about the instrument yet..Matter of fact one fella is just playing the keyboard in the store..8's and 9's are not negatives..

Fran, they are not completely negative, but people are not raving either: if you compare these reviews with those of the Yamaha S90 or the Yamaha P250...there is a BIG difference. It's difficult to persuade me to buy a keyboard when those who have tried or actually own it write "Yes, but..." or "If it was stolen, I would rather buy a..."
What do you think?

Here is some more info on the VR760:

At the Winter NAMM show, Roland announced the VR-760 Performance Keyboard. This first-of-its-kind instrument features sounds for the modern keyboard player, such as Roland's acclaimed "Virtual ToneWheel" organs, FP- and RD-Series pianos, all-new electric pianos with COSM Amp Modeling, and SRXpandable synth sounds. A 76-note waterfall keyboard and expressive new controllers--including a D Beam, Active Expression and V-LINK--make the VR-760 a powerful choice for first-class keyboard sounds.

The VR-760 is designed to give keyboard players convenient access to the best organ, piano and synthesizer sounds. The organ sounds are derived from Roland's VK-Series Combo Organs, praised for their authenticity and detail. Onboard COSM Amp and Rotary Speaker Modeling complements the organ sounds, while the VR-760's waterfall keyboard captures the feel of a vintage organ--great for glissandos.

For pianos, the VR-760 takes its lead from Roland's popular FP- and RD-Series instruments. Everything from expressive acoustic grand pianos to bright pop pianos can be found--bolstered by COSM Mic Modeling for improved ambience and tone. The VR-760 even sports a new selection of electric pianos--complete with COSM Amp Modeling--to give players those classic "suitcase" and "stage" sounds. These are, quite simply, the best electric piano sounds Roland has ever offered.

The VR-760's synthesizer section boasts some of Roland's finest sounds ever, with a maximum of 128-voice polyphony. Sounds are set up into easy Tone categories and can be directly edited via front-panel knobs. Two SRX expansion slots make it easy to customize the VR-760 with sounds for any musical genre.

The VR-760 also incorporates a variety of expressive controllers for even more exhilarating performances. With the D Beam, players can adjust functions like rotary speed, octave or glide using an infrared light beam. Active Expression makes it possible to slowly fade in a layered sound using an optional expression pedal. And with V-LINK, musicians can trigger video clips from the keyboard when used with the Edirol DV-7PR Digital Video Workstation (sold separately).

I have heard the VR760 in person. The person playing it was considered an expert player who excels on the Organ and he really made it sing! I thought it sounded absolutely fantastic, especially the Organ sounds. I played it a little myself and I thought the Grand Piano, and Elec. Pianos, were very good. There are Expansion boards you can add to beef up certain sounds if you want. 128 note Polyphony is a great plus too. 76 Keys with that great Waterfall feel is an added bonus.

My advice is to go and listen to one in person then weigh the advantages and disadvantages for what you need the Keyboard for and what it has to offer you in that regard. Then make your decision.

Happy 4th of July!

Best regards,
Mike

I've played the VR 760 and can't wait to get one. The organ section is fantastic and the pianos are pure Roland great. The synth section is unique and sounds solid. It even has a basic rhythm section. I would suggest this board if you are playing with a band that has a drummer. Otherwise, I love my PSR2000, it has great sounds and is a great arranger. The case is a little cheesy, but it has held up for the past year with no problems.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 07-06-2003).]

well it can take SRX expansion sets. so Nigel is not limited to what's inside the board. i recomment the Roland VR-760. it's a great board. also check out that SRX expansion piano board. I think it's the only card that's got sounds that can pump your feelings up!

Holy Cow, it takes SRX boards as well? Next thing you know, they'll add a sampling option. I'm going to have to beg for a raise at work to afford one. I also have a Motif ES 88 on my wish list.

What to do...What will I do?

Al