Hi all. I am planning to buy a keyboard arranger por home use. I have read many description of several of them and heard some demos posted in different web pages. Now I seem to have narrowed the choices to 1) Tyros 2 or 2 ) Pa11X from Korg.
What do you think?
Thanks

Hi Glaucotech,

this topic has been extensively discussed here.
If you do a search you'll find a lot of answers.

But before we can answer your question better, it is important to know what kind of music you do/prefer and what kind of sounds are you looking for.

Both boards are excellent choices, but we need a little more info before we can start another heated discussion...

Eric

Yes..I understand that it is indeed a fueled question that could ignate some preferences from the Tyros 2 owners vs the PA1X ones. I have looked upon previous posts and found...no predominance of one against the other. My musical goals are 1) non professional but serious use of the board for composing mainly pop music , try to practice some orchestration and 3)singing for fun (Family , frieds gatherings and the like). Some portability would be welcome. I understand that both are on the heavy side. I am not a pianist so I could handle the common keyboard quality playing, though I feel that some times the way you "feel" the keyboard could add or detract from creativity and inspiration". Very curious about the Vocal harmonizing and voice modeling capabilities of PA1X. Unfortunately I have not found much input from real users about these. Only the internet demos . Would like to know more.
Thanks

I seel both keyboards at my store in Los Angeles, Ca. As for the vocal harmonizers I would give the edge to the Korg. It's using a TC Helicon chip inside which does a fantastic job. As in both the Yamaha and the Korg, both harmonizers feature extensive editing capabilities but I find the Korg a bit more natural in the way the harmonized parts follow the chords played and lead vocal sang. As to the sounds and styles, they are both outstanding. If you wish to do more sampling in a keyboard, the Yamaha offers much more memory potential (1GB vs 32MB). The synth editing on the Korg is like the Trition however, 6 oscillators (wave forms) can be used in any 1 voice which allows for an lot of editing potential. Sequencer wise, they both have 16 tracks but there is a difference in the way the two work. Korg uses a backing sequence to record the style and then you add the rest of the tracks in the 16 track seq. mode. Or, you can start in this mode, one track at a time. The Yamaha has a different approach, where you can record any thing you can play or push a button and each track defaults to a different part in the 16 track seq. Next, if you want to add more tracks or just record one track at a time, you must select a track and select a part you wish to record on this track. So, if you want to keep recording a single sound at a time, you must keep assigning the part called "R1" to each track as you go. If not, your part defaults will screw you up until you figure this out.
I like the PA1XPro model better than the PA1X. It has 76 keys instead of 61, no speakers compared to the 61 key version, so it is lighter in weight. It comes with a hard drive already installed out of the box. You have to add one in the PA1X. The keys are larger and nicer to play and it is much more popular with musicians.
The Tyros 2 has 61 semiweighted keys and there is no 76 key option. No hard drive comes with the keyboard and you would have to add one if you want to do hard disk audio recording.
With the Korg, you also need to add an MP3 recorder chip option and you can add a CD burner option if you wish.
Some might choose one over the other for sounds, some will choose the Yamaha for it's articulated voices, some will choose the Yamaha because it has 4 fill ins and the Korg has only 2. The Yamaha has 128 note polyphony, the Korg has 62, but this has not been an issue because of the way Korg works around voice allocation. Nobody has complained that I'm aware of.
I hope this helps. In my opinion, both are sensational choices and around the same price.

George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Hi Glaucotech,

Tyros2 wheight is 32lbs vs Pax1 46.3lbs.
Tyros2 has a very easy intuitive navigation with lots of buttons, Pa1x has a touchscreen navigation is not as intuitive.
Tyros2 has great styles that sound like a CD or studio recording, Pax1 has also great styles and sounds more like a live band, it depends on what you like more.


Those are just a couple of things.

You should really test both boards if you have a chance.
It all comes down to taste.

Eric

Hello Glaucotech
Tough choice and the only way to find out which you like best is to try it, however here are a few observations from the Blackpool and Caister keyboard Festivals in the UK. (Remember the Korg has been out longer then Tyros2)
At the World Premier of Tyros 2 at the Caister Festival, initially, it did not bode well for Tyros 2, as even when it was played professionally at the evening concert, (And earlier in the day) barely a third of the 1500 or so audience applauded, however by the end of the week most things were sorted and everyone agreed it was a great board, however talking to people at the Festival towards the end of the week, it was obvious that the preferred board was the Korg PA1x.
At the Blackpool Festival, Tyros 2 was in full swing and people were really enjoying it, (It certainly put Roland’s new E80 in the shade) however it was noted that of the many professional independents artists that featured Arranger Keyboards, (IE they had spent there own money on them) the Korg PA1x Pro was the most prolific.
My own personal opinion is that if you are playing solo or are pretty new to keyboards, then Tyros 2 is probably the better, as it has some great sounds and styles, and a pretty nice OS. (Just wish they would make the screen touch sensitive)
The Korg is the better if you are playing in a group, as it has a more live feel and integrates with other instruments better, its OS however is a pain in the butt, until you get used to it. (Tip, Use the back tip of your fingernail when using the touch screen)
Harmonizer; The Korg wins hands down, as it uses the TC Helicon chip which is one of the best around.
Speakers; A good quality separate speaker system will always be better then internal speakers. (Avoid the Yamaha speakers that they recommend for the Tyros 2, as they make it sound like something from the nineties)
As I mentioned at the beginning, you will not be disappointed with either, but only you can decide which you find is best. (So go try them out)
Hope this helps.

Bill

Thank you all for your kind responses

Hi hope this helps. I used to be a long time user of the yamaha psr range and have spent extensive time demoing the T1 and T2 neither of which i ended up purchaseing. I dont know any oher forum members here that have actually played or owned the PA1X but i am an owner of the PA1X and i can give an honest apprasial of both keyboards.

First let me say that the T2 SA voices are outstanding and when the technique to play them correctly has been mastered it is very very dificult to tell the instrument from the authentic instrument it is copying. My first choice would have been the T2 had it not been for incompleteness in certain areas

George mentions that the T2 has a bigger sampling memory than the PA1X. This is true however the T2 sampling fnction is really just a play back feature and not "true sampling" i.e it cannot record another instrument voice and then edit it extensively whereas the PAx! can very well for a multi purspose instrument.

The Tyros does have an in built song player (its really misleading to call it a sequencer in the truest sense) it enables the user to record real time multiple or individual tracks but is extremely limited in terms of editing afterwards, copying specific portions of tracks and micro editing , again the korg has a fully featured sequencer.Pretty much all your song writing, editing sampling, mixing audio loops and production in terms of efects etc can all be done on this one instrument.In effect unless you have some external sequencing device for the T2 , you will have to be able to play your recordings perfectly first time if you are into song writing. If you have a pc with sequnceing software and the space and time to connect up your keyboard then this is not a problem .

The korgs sounds are very good and utilises RX technology which is equivalent to yamahas "mega voice " patent. Eg you can hear the scratch of the plectrum on the gitar as it strums etc you get the idea i am sure.

The T2 has to have aditional speakers attached which from what i have heard for myself are pretty impresive and he T2 is substantially lighter than he PAX1 which has its own very good built in speakers.

Both the T2 and he PAX have excellent auto accompaniment styles although the T2 to my ears excells in the more traditional styles including the jazz and latin american styles.

The PAX kicks ass with contemporary styles but is weaker (but not much) to he T2 in terms of the more traditional styles

The voices on the T2 are not easily edited and reqire additional software and a computer to really get into the guts of sound manipulation. I never actually got to he stage of doing this myself as i did not want an instrument hat could not beutiliesed in its entirety without external gear.

The PAX1 is a fully editable synth keyboard with quite extensive sound manipulation features as would be expected from any intrument developed from the triton stable.

Why did i buy he PAX1 ?

Despite its weight ( an believe me i is very heavy) as a musician/producer/songwriter (all purely for the love , not professonally) the PAX fit best as it had the entire package in terms of sound, styles, editability, fully fledged sequnecer,fully featured sampler, outstanding vocal harmoniser product support and built in speakers which were essential for me.

You said that you wrote pop songs and performed for famly events. The T2 or PAX1 will meet your reqirements but i feel the PAX1 is possibly better suited to your needs from he limited information given If you are planning to develope your songwriting and production skills then i would stear you towards the PAX

But......

If you have a pc and are comfortable linking the T2 to it and utilising some of the software available to assist your compositions in terms of a sequencer etc then it might be well woth looking at the T2 again

However i must come back to the yamaha SA voices. If yamaha had spent a little more money having a full sequncer and sampler there is no question that i would have bought the T2 as i can compose my own styles and could get used to conecting up small speakers if i had to.

As a parting line , i am pretty confident that whichever keyboard you buy you will be seriously satisfied with the instrument and lose months of sleep as i have whist getting lost in the wonderful world of music !!

Cheers

Worth

These are the two that I've considered when upgrading to a new arranger, however the new SD5 also has my attention. One thing is simple enough.. if I get the PA1x, the PA80 I have is history. That may or may not be the case if I get the Tyros2, but if it comes down to it and I wanted to unload one of my current boards, I'll likely keep my MZ2000 no matter what happens.

I haven't played either of them, so I can't judge either way. If the past is any indication though, I'd say I'll probably prefer a majority of the Korg styles ( assuming the fills match the variations a little better ).

I'll probably prefer a majority of the Yamaha panel or lead voices, particularly the pianos, e pianos, sax, horns, and guitars, with the notable exceptions being organs and analog emulations, which I'm pretty certain I'll probably like better on the Korg.

The OS will likely be fine on either for me.
The hardest part will likely be finding both of these in the same store to demo, and add the Ketron to that as well.

Good luck with which ever one you decide upon. I'm sure either will be a winner.

AJ

The organs and analogue sounds on the Tyros 2 are fantastic. You can get anything from in your face Hammond sounds to the likes of the Wersi sounds used by the great and late Klaus Wundlerlich then with the analogue if you want Jean Michel Jarre, Human League, Kraftwerk, or even the superb Oberheim sound used by Van Halen on Jump it's all there.
Both are fantastic arrangers.

Craig,

Thanks.. I am glad to hear that, because it would represent an improvement over past Yamaha arrangers I've played, but I would still want to hear it for myself to believe it, as these are among the most important sounds to me.

The organ sounds on the Motif ES are good, but many are not great although a couple of the B3-C3 sounds are very nice. Some of the more modern digital synth sounds are excellent on the ES, but many of the analogue emulations on it are thin to my ears, and while that isn't unusual on a digital synth, my PA80 does a better job than the ES for those sounds. Either way they are both digital, and you can work only within the framework of the samples they give you. I like the ability to cook up analog sounds from scratch, but my guess is that no arranger will likely ever have that again ( I think back to when the 9000 series accepted the PLG series plug ins )

Noone does a good enough Oberheim for me. Because of the complex filtering schemes used in the OB boards, I tend to doubt it's possible at all in the digital realm. Right now even in the software realm, analogue modeling and all, it just isn't there, although from what I saw at KVR, I believe finally an Oberheim emulation is about ready to surface. A lot of folks have the nailed the "Jump" sound pretty well, but there are other OB sounds like those that Kerry Livgren from Kansas or Dennis De Young from Styx used that I've yet to hear anyone emulate properly.

I had a shot at buying an OB12 recently and it sounded really sweet, ..like an Oberheim does to me, but, like so many of the older analog boards, it had some issues, and I would have regretted purchasing it if I couldn't have gotten it restored to full function.

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-04-2006).]

Totally agree what you're saying about Oberheim. With the T2 I set the FX and other parameters to the mod wheel so I can get the sort of filter sweeping noises that the old analogue machines did great. You can really get into editing all of the sounds and I'm amazed with the results as I didn't expect to get good synth sounds coming out of an arranger keyboard.

Hi,

I believe you have to try yourself because they are really wonderful instruments and you have to decide what's the detail that will decide the competition.

Just a small addition to the sampling section: T2 has up to 1G (even if I've no idea about loading times of such huge memory) but the small 32 Mb of Pa1X are compatible with Akai programs that you can find very easily and for cheap price now.

Don't know if this is important for you, anyway did a great job for me: I found different old but good Akai libraries (Miroslav Vitous is just one example) for very cheap price or second hand and this helped a lot with some sounds I was missing (piano, strings, drums).

Hope this help.

Regards