I'm trying to get a sense of what is the best method and equipment for making your own styles. Who is doing it? Are you Successfull? What tools do you use?

I have tried to make styles on the PSR9000 and the Tyros, and for the life of me, they sound like crap. Is there a better keyboard out there to do this?

I'm sort of hoping the new G70 will help in this regard. Is this wish without merit?

Al

I first started making styles on the PSR 510 don’t laugh!! It did the job at that time.

I now use the gem genesys. I usually start with the drum tracks then do the bass and then cords and comping.

One technique is to copy one or two tracks from other styles and include them in your new style.

It really depends on
What style of music you are trying to create for,
How many tracks you want to use in your styles
And what your playing style is like.
Also, it is always good before you start making the style to have an idea as to how you want the style to sound after it is done and how you will be using it at a gig.

Once you get the Hang of it, it definitely makes a difference in the quality of the live performance. I personally try to create the styles to make them sound like a live 3 or 4 piece band.

I don’t know specifically about the 9000 and the tyros, but if they are more advance than the psr 510, I am sure that they have the tools to make a decent style.

If you wanted Country styles for the 510, you almost HAD to make them yourself! I think Technics had the easiest provision for making your own styles.
I made some up through the PSR8000, but haven't found the need to make any lately. However it should still work the same way. The way To The Gen. described it is exactly how I did it.
DonM

I'm trying to make my own Jazz and fusion styles. I use the same method you do; ie I start with drums, bass, then chords, etc.

I can't seem to get the groove and timing just right. It sounds off and not "stitched" correctly. Even after I quantize.

Do you use the metronome?
Also you may want to experiment with the quantize value for a particular style. Sometimes with jazz and other music it may be best to quantize to the nearest triplet value. May be and 1/8 or 1/16 or 1/32 triplet.

Hi,
I used to create styles for my kn7. I didn't actually have the imagination to start from scratch, so I used to work with midifiles of style parts from other keyboards. It was a great keyboard for style creation.

I've now found I can do a lot of the editing & style creation functions ( my kn7 had) in OMB arranger software. I've now gone back to psr's.

I used to have the 9000pro, but I was never particularly happy with it's style editing functions ie the only parts that were readily editiable in the keyboard were the drum parts.
With OMB I can load the psr style into the software and step edit any of the style tracks ( drums bass etc) . I can save individual style tracks to import into other styles. I can save individual style parts ( intro's, endings variations)
I can create a style from a midifile. Where that comes in handy is, I could use one of my software sequencers ie cakewalk, power tracks pro, xgworks etc create the style in the sequencer then import the midifile into OMB and create the actual style. Software sequencers have great editing functions.
Another source I use for style parts is Jammer 5 and BIAB software.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kbrkr:
[B]

I actually make all my own styles. I play a lot of klezmer, horra, arabic and eastern music and no keyboards cater for this at all.

I programmed most of my styles on the psr 8000, and then tweaked them when I upgraded to the tyros. I do all my programming on board the actual keyboard and have never had a problem.

I actually have two or three template files I use for creating my styles - ie: files with all the instruments, volumes, pans etc preset, and all I have to do is record the parts and do minor mixing changes.

It just needs practice. It took me a while to create my first decent sounding style. But once you hit that jackpot, you're set.

Chony

I play arabic music, but what I will say should be good hints regardless of style. I currently own the Ketron X1 as an arranger. I make all my styles from scratch.

Differences between what I make and what factory set are is that in almost all arabic styles ketron team or GEM team or any other arabic style making company does, is that hey gear it to sound like a STUDIO quality...they try to make it sound like it was studio recorded.

I don't need that, I can become a DJ if that is what I wanted to do with my arranger, and I will simply sequence every song and play it exactly as the original. What I try to do with my styles is make them sound as LIVE as possible. What I mean by that is I try to close my eyes and hear that there is a real drummer, or bassist or what ever i record in those tracks, rather than the obvious over sophisticated arrangement.

Thus here are my hints:

1)Keep it simple
2)Make more than one of the same style, but with some variation. So for example I have a style called SAIDI, I make 4 styles that have 4 variations each. I can either go from Variation A to B on same style, or go from Saidi1 variation A to Saidi2 Variation A and get a different kind of variation.
3)Before I record, I make the keys NON TOUCH SENSITIVE, no velocity dynamics =>This makes life much easier when recording the drum track. Once its all recorded, I use the velocity function (may not be avaialble on other keybaords) and I control the volume of each key I want, to do the final mix of my drum track. IT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
4)I use FILLS from REAL SONGS. In any kind of music, there are really so many fills for a certain style that you might hear over and over in different songs (or at least the punching parts are heard over and over). So I build my fills based on most common ones I hear in songs.
5)Bass in certain songs (in arabic anyway) is very sophisticated very complex, and very westernized. I record my bass track based again on what i hear a real bass player doign in a band in someone's wedding (lately I am going after the bassist in my own wedding 4 months ago ).
6)I compare my styles to the styles of a band playing the music I want...I hear them on TV, or in an audio live recording...this way I can hear what are the parts that are most important to keep the ambience going, and those are what I stress in my styles.

I hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by Mosiqaar (edited 10-25-2004).]

I have only a little suggestion: never quantize a style (or a sequence whatsoever), unless you want to sound robotic!

Well said Mosiqaar,

I do the same thing. My styles are not designed to be studio quality. I try to have them sounding as live as possible.

Chony

Amen, Brother...

That's what is happening to my stuff. I can't stand my own style creations. I'm not familiar with One Man Band software. Is it any good?

Al

Hi,
it's actually a realtime arranger software, but it has some really good stylemaking tools.
There is a demo on Jos's site but I don't think you can actually save stuff, but at least you can check it out.

It's the stylemaker section you'd want
Window
Stylemaker ( section )http://www.1manband.nl/omb.htm

I originally bought it so that I could create midifiles of psr styles and then convert them into styles for my kn7.

Anyway that's how I discovered it had quite a few similar stylemaking functions to my kn7. My KN7's gone, now I'm basically using omb for style editing & creation, (plus using it as a realtime arranger midied up to my clavinova.)

If you're basically happy with your Yamaha arranger, it might be worth checking omb out.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Rikki,

Thanks for the Info. I checked out the website and it looks really, really, cool.

I'll download it when I get home from work tonight and give it a whirl.

I know this has probably been covered elsewhere, but If I use a laptop with OMB, what hardware do I need to use/purchase to enable MIDI on it? I have an IBM T30 ThinkPad.

Thanks so much
Al

More people make styles than I thought. I am not ready to do that - just enjoying my first arranger for a few weeks now - but I am planning to.

So here is a question: if you make styles, how many bars are you recording per variation?

The reason I ask this, is because there were remarks made about quantizing and what I hate most is, to hear a certain tempo-mistake (like a note just too soon or just too late) come back every four bars. Then I'd rather quantize.
Also, with quantize you can move notes more to the beat, without exactly ON the beat. Like 50% quantizing instead of 100% percent (100% is indeed very robotic).
I made multipads and I don't quantize either (it's not even possible on the PSR multipads). But in one case I had to shift a few notes by hand to make it better.

However, if you make patterns of 16 bars fi, there is no (or not much) repetition and you can do without quantizing altogether.

------------------
drdalet

[This message has been edited by drdalet (edited 10-26-2004).]

On most modern arrangers, you can set the amount of bars a variation, fill and intro/ending will be.

With respect to quantize, while over quantizing something could make a style or sequence sound robotic, you don’t want to go to the other extreme of making it sound sloppy.

I guess to each his own. You just have to use your ears and judge if the product is acceptable to play with professionally.

Rikki,
You said, "I can create a style from a midifile. Where that comes in handy is, I could use one of my software sequencers ie cakewalk, power tracks pro, xgworks etc create the style in the sequencer then import the midifile into OMB and create the actual style".
Could you expand on what you mean. What would you do in the sequencer? How do you prepare a MIDI file so that it can be converted correctly by OMB?
Starkeeper

Hi,
on my old win98 laptop with 9000pro , I used to use an old serial to midi cable that I had laying around( similar to this). http://www.ittymidi.com/product_a0005.asp

Since upgrading my laptop and getting a clp ( both work with usb) , I use a normal usb cable to connect the two. Works really well.

Sorry but I don't know enough about your computer / keyboard. You'd be better off asking the forum in general as to what to use. There's plenty of members who have their keyboards midied to computers.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Starkeeper,
you can actually create a style from a midifile ( song) by just using omb. ie you import your midifile into omb's stylemaker section, audition the parts and create the style then do any editing required.

I prefer to import the midifile into a software sequencer first, delete the melody track ( except for maybe intro & ending parts) and only keep the tracks I'm going to use for the style ie drum tracks, bass, chord, pad & phrase tracks and make a note of the bar no's as to where each of the parts start & finish do any other editing if required.
Basically not necessary , just a preference.
I do the same for styles that I've saved as midifiles from other keyboards I've owned.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[B]Rikki,

I downloaded OMB last evening and tried it with my Tyros. I must be a complete idiot, because I couldn't get the OMB arranger function to work. I was able to see the MIDI messages from the Tyros appear on the OMB screen, albeit, it was displaying a Bmin for a C chord? I was able to go into the Style maker section and get the styles playing normally.

On the whole, I don't really like the OMB interface. It's just too busy with useless information. If your playing live with this thing and you look up to your Laptop computer screen with this program displayed, how are you supposed to pick out critical information quickly?

I'll keep plugging away with it, but my first impressions are not very high.

Al

Hi Al,
sorry, we've got our wires crossed, I wasn't try to suggest you use omb software as your arranger ( especially as you have a tyros), but it is a good style editing & creation tool.

I use it as an arranger because i didn't want to go to the expense of buying a Clavinova with arranger functions (ie I wanted the best quality piano within my budget, rather than pay for arranger functions, which I knew I could get with omb)
plus I also wanted the portability of using omb with a laptop & softsynth).

I thought that you were mainly interested in something that may help you with creating styles. Study the stylemaker section. I found it pretty enlightning as to how psr styles actually worked by studying existing styles.
ie if you double click the events colum on the stylemaker page , it shows up all the notes that make up any track.
For drum tracks that's an easy way to edit ie add/delete/replace drum notes..
You can also record style tracks in realtime.
There is a certain amount of editing available, but not as much as in a software sequencer.
And don't forget you can create a style from a midifile, either from a smf or one that you record ie record a style in a sequencer, do any editing required, save as a midifile, then use the midifile load/paste function in omb to create your style.

I was mainly suggesting that it could be a good way of giving you extra stylemaking tools in software form, if that is something that you think is lacking in your Tyros.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kbrkr:
[B]

DUH!!!

I told you I was an Idiot!

Well that makes a lot of sense...I'll use it to make styles! What a novel idea.

Thanks Rikki

Well good luck with it.
Remember psr styles are based on a maj7th chord ( except for intro's & endings, which can be done in a maj or min chord)
Jos (omb) has some pretty helpful hints on his omb site in regards to style creation. He also runs a group which he monitors http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/onemanbandgroup/

I'll be away for the next few days, so hoping omb works for you too ( for style creating that is (haahaa)

best wishes
Rikki
p.s. don't worry, I confuse my poor husband all the time, he's never quite sure what I'm talking about either.