I keep reading posts about who like this keyfeel...., who likes that one.....this feels cheap....etc etc .....What about buying the straight synth of your choice eg: Titon, Motiff ES, or any other synth workstation you enjoy the best....then adding on [midi] a module like the Ketron X3 or Similar Unit for your Accompiament styles. I uses to really enjoy my Korg M1 and Roland RA90 module years ago, it gave me great flexability. I would like to see a Tyros module, Pax1pro Module, etc, and get a good solid keyboard or maybe just a midi keyboard controler to have The Best of Both Worlds? What are your thoughts on this topic?






http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/SNAMM96/Roland/RA-800.html




http://www.studiologic.net/fatar-menu.htm



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-13-2003).]

Dnj. Excellent idea. Buying a dedicated Mother Board with the feel of our choice and then adding an arranger module. Unfortunately very few Arranger Module are are available. Technics stopped making theirs. There is Ketron. Roland now do a Diskcover Module but its not an arranger.

Come on Donny help me list the others that are available.

Graham UK

Hey Donny,

I'll share with you my experience with outboard sound modules. I've got the Edirol SD-90 here at work as my outboard soundcard and midi sound device. Once in a while, I'll bring it home and connect it to my WK8 via a midi cable. Midi files, of course, work fine and I like the additional sounds. Playing the keyboard straight-up (no styles) works great too. But when I play a style or use the arranger function, the drumkits used in the styles are found on channel 9 and I have to manually go into the Edirol and change it...Every time I pick a different style. I suppose there's a midi control that the keyboard could send to the Edirol to tell it to use channel 9 for drums, but I haven't found it. So bottom line for me is, I just reach over and turn the volume down on the Edirol when I'm playing styles.

I see a lot of specific Tyros midi files using both track 9 and 10 for drums. I wonder if the Tyros' styles are setup the same way, two (or more) drumkits on separate channels.

I definitely agree with you about the want (or need) for a Tyros module or Korg PaX1Pro module. And Korg, when you make that PaX1 module, could you include the dual sequencers with cross fader? Thank you!

mike

Another thought is to convert lets say other style companies files to KETRON format with EMC Styleworks Univeral and play them from the X3 Module with some tweaking, although the X3 has many fine styles theres always room for more styles depending on your taste.....I too would like to see arranger modules make a comeback....maybe rack size might be a good thing also?

Hi Donny. My experience with an arranger module (Roland RA800) never worked very well for me, especially for LIVE performance where quick 'on the fly' access to arranger functions (arranger buttons as well as LCD screen) is critical. I find it very awkward to attempt to accesss a module's arranger functions from a playing positon on 'separate' KB unit.

The advantage of an all in one arranger kb design is that the LCD screen is situated directly behind the keys and all the arranger buttons are laid out & grouped conveniently across the length of the keyboard.

I definitely like the concept of a module, but would only consider it if the manufacters would design the module unit to be longer (32") yet narrower width (8"), offering a button layout more similar to our all in one arranger keyboards. This way, the module could be butted up directly behind the keyboard controler unit, providing better 'screen & button layout access closer to what we have now. - Scott

Scott. I read your idea, but most Arranger modules sold to Midi Piano Players for them to add extra arranger facilities.....well that's how they initially advertised the modules when they were introduced many years ago. The module was designed to sit on top at one end of the piano, so it needed to be small and square....ish
The whole object of Midi connection was to enable players to add additional facilities to the board of their choice without having to keep buying the latest keyboard.
Perhaps if we keep a thread going it may encourage more board manufactures to produce more modules. ???

Graham UK



[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 11-13-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 11-13-2003).]

I really like Scott's idea. I have briefly owned a Roland RA50 and a Korg i5M, but quickly went back to a keyboard arranger because of the awkwardness of the unit when playing live. A longer, thinner unit might work better. I'm certainly game for trying a module again; I'm playing less arranger stuff live and playing along more with midi backup.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 11-13-2003).]

Scott’s points are well taken. A good friend of mine started off playing jobs some years ago with a Ketron MS40 sound module and a “dumb” keyboard controller. (I believe it was a Ketar) After a while he got so fed up with having to do the extra interconnections, including plugging in the “wall wort” for the keyboard, and then have the module with it’s display screen and controls sitting off to the side, where he’d have to reach to push the buttons. He used written music, so the area in front the keyboard was used for the music stand. So he had no choice but to take along another table or stand on which he placed his module. All in all, he was extremely happy when he bought his first integrated arranger keyboard and reduced the amount of “stuff” he had to take along, set up, and interconnect. Judging from the emphasis that’s been placed by a number of the full time musicians on the Forum regarding simplifying their set-ups, I’m not sure the module approach would make everyone happy.

Now if a manufacturer of an arranger were able to offer several options of keyboards that could be “nested” within the envelope of the arranger housing, maybe that would offer the best of both worlds.
Paul C.

I suspect that one day in the near/distant future we'll all be using a controller and a laptop, period. I already do that for some of my production work using Reason, and when I perform on a grand piano I just take my laptop for SMF playback.

However there is something to be said for playing an "instrument" - a keyboard with it's own unique sounds. I don't think that's going away anytime soon. Having just bought a Motif ES 8, I really feel like I'm playing a very advanced instrument with a terrific keyboard that is made especially to provide full control over the Motif's many sounds and functions. I doubt if a separate non-Yamaha controller could improve upon that. You'll always find that the buttons and controls of Brand X MIDI controllers never really match up to the functions of Brand Y module in the same way that a dedicated keyboard does.

My buddy Jack Ness uses a korg module and a yamaha module. With a roland keyboard of some kind. He likes the Roland keyboard piano sound the best. He has drums sequenced on cakewalk and some bass and strings. Sometimes he does like Dave and plays left handed bass. He mixes everything up and seems to do it real fast. This is the system he has used for a while. He wears out keyboards he tells me playing 5 nights a week plus during the day. He said they just don't hold up. With this system, I remember teo years ago in our park gig he brought a Casio along for his keyboard. He got the same sound. He plays acoustic piano too.

I use a Ketron X3 with two different keyboard controllers. One very slim lightweight 61 note job for playing gigs with and an 88 note fully weighted one for home and recording use. It's true that there are more connections to set up and I also have to use the extender arms on my X-Stand at gigs but the flexibility this set up gives outweighs a few extra mins setup time.

I'm lucky in that the Ketron gives me exactly what I want out of an arranger 'cos there aint too many module ones around now.

KF

KFingers.....Interesting...any chance on you posting some songs with your setup or email them to me....I'd like to see some pics of it also...What else can you tell us about your rig..navagation....etc etc ?

Since going "one piece", I can never go back to carting more gear. Especially since the end result will most likely sound the same. I had a few modular arrangers before, but there was never a really comfortable spot to place it for best access to the controls. As a guitarist or accordianist, I guess you have no choice(except to reach), but as a keys player .... it makes so much more sense to have all your controls at your fingertips.

Then again...... this is coming form someone who hates playing the keys on the board I currently own. Take it with a grain of salt.

If they ever made a really high end cabinet with great speakers and up-to-date sounds .... I'd be all over it.
The kn7000 is close, the PA80 is closer(because of the vocal abilities) but no one else has the road ready package that I long for. Sigh......

BTW - we sold out house this week.
W*A*R*N*I*N*G
(changing topics that fast can cause whiplash !)

UD: You sold your out house? That indoor plumbing must finally be working...

Dave I thought you were in Philly not Little Rock!
DonM

I'm with Dave on this one.

If they make a board with 100watt speakers and everything is in one piece, I'd sell all of my gear and buy it if, it had a sequencer I liked. I wouldn't care if it weighed 150lbs.

My son picks up my 275lb brick saw lifts it over the side of the trailer and sets it down gently. I'll just hire him as a roadie. Ha! Ha!

I WANT A ONE PIECE RIG FOR A ONE MAn BAND. i DON'T MIND CARRyING MY SAX EXTRA.

I know dream on and "On And On". I like this tune. I even like it with the Cumbia style on my Korg.

A solution for the mfgs. is to have sound boards that you could install inside your arranger. Both Roland and Yamaha have the technology to do this. Don't like the electric pianos on your Roland EXR-5? No problem, just install the "Keyboards of the 60's & 70's" expansion board and there you go. This won't happen for a long time.
Starkeeper

Damn! Typing with mittens on again, and i was caught ! Kudos guys.
The girls will be moving about a mile away, into a smaller place that my "X" can afford.
Looks like chapter 2 of the Big "D" is next.....learning how to knock when I pick up my own kids. Weird feeling.

Hi
i wish they'd bring arranger modules back. Used to have the korg i5m, Roland Ra90/95. Even had a technics module many years back.
I've always wondered why they weren't more popular. To me they seem a great idea.

best wishes
Rikki