Of course, adimatis, I know YOU know the difference.... but here at SZ I like to spell things out a bit more carefully for the members not intimately familiar with Rolands.

If you are not careful, someone makes a false assumption about the E60's capabilities, finds out they are wrong, and then goes on a rant about 'Oh no! the E60 doesn't have this or that feature only available on much more expensive keyboards!'

BTW, I have to make a correction...... I downloaded the manual PDF (from Roland Keyboard Club) and found out you CAN put a footswitch in the Expression pedal jack, and use it to control start/stop (amongst many other parameters), but of course, you then give up the swell pedal.... you can't use the sustain jack for anything other than sustain. So, one step forward, one step back. Hope this helps, KVS..... I'm interested in how you can play well WITHOUT a sustain pedal, though. Piano parts have got to sound a bit choppy, don't they? Not to mention being able to hold a note while your RH goes and hits a function button.....

diki, being a self-taught keyboardist, I never was trained in the use of a sustain pedal. I've tried to use it but found I liked my playing better without it. maybe i've compensated with finger technique of my own to achieve
sustain digitally instead of with the foot. since almost all are trained to use the pedal, maybe they never developed that facility which i may have inadvertently developed on my lonesome. i realize there are situations where a sustain-pedal user might have advantage, but it's not been a problem to me at all, plus i find i can't stand listening to players who overuse sustain--to me it's like those who overuse reverb. there are tons of both out there

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Miami Mo

Over-using the sustain sounds just as bad as under-using it, IMHO..... As long as you restrict yourself to never moving your hand far enough to need the sustain pedal to cover the 'jump', sure, you'll be fine, but I hate to hear someone so arbitrarily restrict what they play just because they don't want to spend a bit of time to learn a very simple technique. Just because some others overuse a feature doesn't mean you HAVE to!

I totally agree, but just don't seem to have much need for it...as opposed to the swell pedal, which I find offers so much more to my playing..so i'm grieving now over one less Kb choice, and just as i can't consider a casio due to no tap tempo, i can't consider an E60 w/ such pedal limitations. I'm not asking for much, a lousy 3-function pedal like Gem offers would be ideal..one for sustain, one for fills, one for stop/start, plus a volume pedal. How the hell they expect us to jump for a new upper mid-priced kb without such basic operating features is beyond me. really dumb. I'd have even settled for stop/start in place of sustain, but not in place of volume pedal.
Guess I'm stuck w/ the pa800, much better kb by all reports, just wish it had 76 keys.



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Miami Mo

PA800 is a great choice, especially as you don't appear to need a 76 note keyboard to play pianistically on!

One last chance for the E60.... Most of Roland's functions can be triggered with a MIDI command... perhaps a set of MIDI pedals would work?

And in the days of four variations for each style, only ONE footswitch doesn't really give you enough control, so GEM's simple three switch would still be insufficient. Toggling between two variations only takes one switch......

3+volume is enough for me, don't like a lot of foot buttons--I find if it's a well-designed layout i can quickly use my hands for a lot of functions, but I use start/stop a lot so need that by foot. didn't like the T2 for reason of its layout. my old korg is35 is a dream to use on the fly.

re playing pianistically, you are saying if i don't use sustain pedal i can't do that? i don't agree. try playing a couple of hours w/o sustain by yourself..maybe you'll see what i like about doing that (but maybe you won't lol) you may have misinterpreted my humility re not having formal piano training as my being unable to use sustain properly..not so..i'm not great at it, because i don't do it much..but that's because i just prefer not to use it..personal preference. 76 keys would open me up for more and better splits as well. I dislike splitting 61 keys. i pump my LH bass when i choose to do that in full or piano mode w/ electric piano sounds or guitar sounds that have a nice bottom i can use for bass lines. I'll use a couple splits where there is no way to use the bottom of the sound..like if i have a flute or vibes, i'll put guitar on bottom, but mostly I feel the 61 cramps splits too much.

Tell me more about the midi pedal thing..intriguing..how would that be set up and operate?? don't tease, u are now
giving me hope w/the E60 choice again...

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Miami Mo

ps....ever see Count Basie w/ big band live or on film?
his feet are nowhere near the pedals. now THAT's what
I'm talkin' bout. different strokes.......

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Miami Mo

Mo...... I'm not saying you can't play a lot of piano styles without a sustain pedal, but I am saying there ARE a lot of piano styles you DO need one for.... otherwise they wouldn't have one on every piano made. How much you use it is your choice, but not having one for the times when you DO need it is difficult to accept.

You ever see George Winston play? Or Keith Jarrett? Or Count Basie when he's playing a ballad?

Having come from an organ AND piano background, I understand as well as most what can and can't be achieved with just good legato technique. Not to mention the mind-blowing tricks you can achieve using sostenuto rather than sustain on sounds like strings and pads. I just prefer having those extra pedals for when you need them, rather than just closing the door on certain performance styles.....

But each to his own, and best of luck with whatever new arranger you choose. We live in some mighty exciting times!

right on, we shouldn't have to make a choice between having a sustain or not..should always be a sustain pedal,
always a volume pedal, plus an input for a multi-function pedal that offers a choice of getting a 3 or 4 pod foot controller with big easy to hit pads, or one with many functions that requires good foot training for those that want to go that way. not expensive for mfrs to have those
inputs on mid-price linwe, esp since they profit from sale of accessories. just dumb or deliberately trying to force some into the flagship unit..but no way I want that monster E80, or even a G70 for carrying to gigs.

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Miami Mo

well, the lack of possibility to connect a foot controler is one of the weaknesses of e60. in fact, you have quite limited ways to control various functions.
i miss even the four pads from korg that can be assigned to many functions.
but again, i think it is normal: e60 shouldn t be a replacement for g70 or e80.

about the expression and sustain pedal, i checked yesterday, is right diki: sustain only for sustain, expession for several functions. btw, sustain is a must be, how would you play without it?! especially if there's no at least a sustain button somewhere on the front panel...

the advantage of e60 over e50 is the dbeam, which gives you some extra control.
but indeen very few possibilities to have immediate control over some very usefull functions.

korg pa800 i imagine to be a different class of instruments anyway. well, it is more expensive and has alot of features that roland has not (even e80, AFAIK) and if you affort it, you should go for it. for me the only problems i had with korg (in general, not particular with my pa50 korg) were the navigation thru different pages and only two fills per style. and some other small things. it that is changed, korg should pe appealing!

ok, happy playing!
adi