as per the subject.

I am curious to find out what "in your face" means, and how some brands do have this and some dont...

The way I interpret it is this: The Ketron, Korg, Roland sound is more like you would walk into a club and hear a live band.
The Yamaha sound is what you would hear on a CD. Both are good, and all can probably be edited to sound like the others.
Some of the Tyros 2 styles got closer, but in my opinion not quite there.
If you get a chance, check out the bank of Live styles in the G70, or most anything from Ketron, for the best examples of "in your face".
DonM

Don -

I see you really like your G70. I am looking forward to getting my E-50 and checking out the G70 extra styles that George loaded in for me.

I agree with your analogy of "in your face".

zuki

Don when is the PA800 coming?
That's what I want to hear you demo for sure.....Don is correct in his explanation....its personal taste & how you setup your KB...most are very good in the right hands, I wish people would put more emphases & effort on playing better then to expect the KB to make you sound
better..........I would change the scenario to make it .......
"IN YOUR AUDIENCES FACE" & that can be done only by the way you play.

I believe the big difference between the models is the drums--they seem a bit louder (hotter) on most keyboards other than Yamaha, while Yamaha's drums are a bit more subdued. Yamaha's individual instrument sounds, however, IMO, are more realistic. Donny hit the nail on the head--it's 99-percent performer--not the keyboard.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

If the G70 weighed about half what it does, I'd be in the market.
I'm too busy right now to learn a new KB. Maybe two more weeks, if HankB doesn't repossess the Roland.
DonM

Yep, it's the old 'tain't what ya do, it the way that ya do it' thing, for sure.

For me, on the 'in your face' thing, Yamaha drums and bass just don't seem to 'have it'. Too smooth, too refined.

I too agree with Donny 100% about the player. most people probably whinge about features and sounds their board doesnt have but the mostely likely outcome of truth is they lack in ability.

I understand Gary what u are saying about the drums being a bit subdued, but honestly the all new Live Power kit1 and Live power kit2 on the T2 are awesome and put most other drum kits to shame. if the PSR3000 had those drumkits it would be a more unbeleivable board. I have heard alot of drum kits and really i dont know how people can say that those two kits are any less live than others. maybe most people havent heard them and thats probbaly why.

if you havent heard these two kits Gary you should definitely try them out on a T2 in a shop or somethin just to see what im saying.

Cheers, Nick

Thanks Nick--I'll give them a try on a friends T2 next week.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

For me, it's not necessarily about drum volume, or reverb, but more about how compressed the actual drum samples themselves are. A drum with it's transients squashed in the sampling process will never have the 'snap crackle and pop' of a less processed one, no matter how loud or dry it is.

Add to that the actual internal dynamics of a style, not something easy to adjust, and that is what I personally think is the difference between the Yamaha sound and others like Ketron and Roland. The more you play on top of a style, the more important it is that elements like the kick snare and toms 'jump' out of the part. The less you play, the more subdued or refined those elements can be.

I always find myself wanting to turn a lot of the Yamaha parts off, because I want to play much of it myself, but when I do, and play with a 'live' dynamic, IMHO the Yammie's snare kind of disappears. You can turn it up, but then it doesn't get out of the way on the softer hits. I am looking for a real drummer's dynamic, and you know how hard it is for them to play too softly!

Yes, I know you can go in and edit every style to add a bit more snare, etc., but, as always, I'm looking for the sound to not need that in the first place...!

Because the Roland's V-Drum sounds were ported into the G70/E80, you are already getting drum sounds that pass the 'drummer' test, and can quite convincingly evoke the impression of a real drummer (in a box!)...

just for clarification, when you say yamaha, are you talking Tyros 2 or an older model??

The T2 is the Yamaha I'm most familiar with the sound of.

Please don't get upset with me just because I prefer one kind of sound over another..... I am sure with enough time and care you can get the T2 to sound pretty much the same as the Rolands and Ketrons, etc., but the OOTB sound of an arranger is usually the basis for the styles. Yamaha would have a problem if some of the styles 'popped' out in your face, and others didn't.

Most manufacturer style 'houses' tend to make all their styles at least 'fit' with each other, a philosophy emerges about whether there will be lots of room in the style for the player, or whether the style sounds fairly full, and only needs a melody... Things like that (though they can be changed with third party styles) tend to give the overall impression of an arranger, at least for me.

And, from what I read on SZ, quite a few hear the same thing as me.... Overall, the T2 sounds 'polished' and CD-like, and Roland and Ketron sound more 'live'. There are exceptions to all impressions, but the overall feel I get from the T2 is of an arranger that goes out of it's way to play as much as it can for you (with amazing quality, no arguments there!), but doesn't often fool you into thinking there is a drummer right next to you.

Just my opinion, YMMV, Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, Yada yada yada.......