the weight issue is a never-ending treasure trove, ain't it?
for all who have dug in their heels, closed off their minds,
and are sick and tired of screaming their opinions and having
others scream back theirs, and are just exhausted..

just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water..

just got my demo Korg X50 on ebay...you know, the one
that's kind of a baby Triton with the handles on the ends
that weighs approx...9.5 lbs?

so last night i put it on my single X stand, and I was having fun previewing all the sounds and arps, and I
just kinda noticed, wow, this thing is just sitting there
rock solid, and no matter how hard i hit the keys, it
just sits there like it was nailed to the stand and the floor
not even as much motion as when i have my 30-pounders
up there.

so i'm thinking, why? maybe the heavier the keyboard,
the more strain it puts on the stand, therefore the motion
that those who like real heavy keyboards say is a problem
with lighter keyboards may not appear with their kb's,
not because they are heavier therefore more stable,
but maybe because they get themselves much heavier
and more stable kb stands at the outset?

food for thought..????
let thought be the operating word, please...think before
you start blasting away is all i am saying...

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Miami Mo

You are quite correct, just look back in the basic engineering notes that everybody made at school.

Bill

One of the issues with 'bounce' comes from where you support the keyboard, and what type of stand you use.

One thing I notice about the X50 is that the keyboard extends virtually to the end of the case, so support may be closer to the ends than a regular styled keyboard. Force applied past the support point is a major factor in 'bounce'.

I have two different types of stands. One is the X-type (I have several, but a discontinued Invisible is my favorite - weight stresses it to become more stable) and the other is the 'leg at each corner' type (Quik-Lok WS550) that eliminates bounce pretty much altogether on even the biggest and heaviest keyboards (my K2500 sits on it most of the time!). So what you use is a factor.

Your post DOES acknowledge the fact that your 30 lb.-ers do bounce. Do you play standing or sitting? I prefer to stand, most of the time, and this exacerbates the bounce issues by supporting the keyboard further in than an X-stand at lower settings.

And I have played an X50 (in a store), and that is a pretty light keyboard action there. Perhaps there is a tendency to not play it as forcefully as a beefier action?

Last point... and, BTW, this is an excellent post, addressing the ISSUE of bounce, rather than just stating a position about weight based on what we own .... To get the same 'bounce' issue as an arranger, you have to play them the same way - both hands on, often at extreme ends of the keyboard, often playing alternately, rather than simultaneously (multiplies the force moment applied to the fulcrum). Is it still not an issue played that way?

But for me, the issue isn't what weight bounces or not, I just have a definite preference for a certain key-bed (used it from G800 - G1000 - G70) which I find amazingly responsive and comfortable. Unfortunately, Roland chose to put it ONLY in some of their heavier keyboards (I'd LOVE a lighter arranger, but it MUST have the same key-bed). The A70 master keyboard is the only non-arranger they put this one into, and that weighs a fair bit, too! So before I get accused of PREFERRING heavier keyboards, the fact is I simply prefer this particular key-bed, and am prepared to play any keyboard, whatever the weight (under protest!) that provides it...

so Diki--
u r no longer taking the position that heavier kb's are
ipso facto more stable but that you just prefer the keybed
of the G70 to others and are willing to make the weight
tradeoff? Ok, I'll buy that, but why don't you give others
the same leeway to make tradeoffs in favor of lighter
weight kb's without accusing them of being wimps and whiners? your prior position was heavier is better.

and to answer your q re why i was ticked off at you that u raised in an earlier thread, it was because you set me up as a straw man cheapskate, saying i said i would only be willing to pay "a little bit' to get an E80's worth out of my E60, when i clearly said i was willing to pay a reasonable
amount for more features, none of which were features
specific to the E80, which has more than I need, but just
a few features which even many lower-priced kb's have.

your point re the x50 support coming at the ends of the kb seem valid, and maybe that's the key to stability in a
heavier kb. my 30-pounders have more bounce, yes, but
that's not an admission, as you infer, of the inferiority
of light kb..on the same stand the g70 would bounce even more. stability is about the stand, as the X50 is the
most stable kb i have used, and it is 9.5 lbs, and yes, i pounded on it with both hands and it still holds true.

------------------
Miami Mo

Mo,
Email me a review of the X-50 when you get a chance.. Would love to hear your thoughts on the unit. I dabbled with it a bit at Guitar Center, but didn't spend as much time as I would have liked on it.

Have you done any computer sequencing with it yet, and does it integrate well?

Squeak, it's going to be some time before i can really review the x50. i bought it because i wanted to fool with a keytar for jams but the yamaha i bought didn't do it for me, and when i saw the handles on the x50 and the guitar-like weight and how the wheels and the volume slider were placed for easy lh operation from the top, and was told it was triton-based, i figured it had to be a winner. go to the shop and demo it like so: hit the category button, then on each sound, hit the audition button next to it..it plays different phrase loops of each sound. fantastic..also hit the combi button and prog button: hundreds of sounds and arps for each. today
i started noodling. it's amazing the inspiration you can get
from some of the arps..gets you thinking in new directions. and to think-- all i wanted it for was to find a
few good sounds for jamming. plenty of that, too.
Korg.com will be helpful re specs, etc...

------------------
Miami Mo

Mo... Look, we seem to be getting too confrontational about these things (trivial things, too in the big picture). Yes, you have every right to ask for any darn thing you want, me too! Perhaps calling Roland moronic for not making an arranger with YOUR particular needs might be a bit inflammatory, but hey, it's your right! I get called out often enough for pointing out some moronic things I think about other's arrangers, too....

Maybe I'd better start posting in capitals when I say something that agrees with the original poster, because I can't tell you the number of times I have posted that I would like a lighter arranger, too, and had that fact utterly ignored by repliers...! (Seeing red, rather than reading black and white, I figure!). But, unfortunately, no-one DOES make a lighter 76 with the features and key-bed I want, so it's not like I have a choice (at least, not without more compromises than I am comfortable with), and I am certainly as fed up as you of being called a moron for sticking with my choice!

But, if you look at it, pretty much ALL arranger manufacturers make the product lines pretty linear. The middle of the line Yamaha does not have all the features of the TOTL, despite many who would be happy with that! Ditto just about every other manufacturer... They appear to have enough problems selling their existing lines (compared to workstations, where for some reason, weight isn't considered as primary a problem) without adding a whole lot more to the picture.

As far as the 'heavier is better' thing, it appears from your post (and my experience with heavier arrangers) that maybe there is a bounce 'gap' in the middle. Heavy keyboards not bouncing as much as 30 lb.-ers is just a fact of physics (takes more force to move all that mass, as long as your stand is stable)...

Ultra-light keyboards may not bounce as much as 30 lb.-ers, but so far we only have one example for that conjecture[, so we'll just have to see what comes in on this thread in the way of additional information. But a WS550 stand weighs more than the difference between a G70 and an E60, so if you want a light 76 and NO bounce, it may prove difficult to get.

I just get the sneaky feeling some 88 note keyboard player is reading this and going 'Storm in a teacup!"....

Diki i sense you are moving toward a rapprochement,
which suits me fine. peace and blessings.
Mo