Dennis,

Mike is right. I analyzed the second .mp3 file in Cool Edit pro and there is a considerable bit of clipping in it.

AJ

[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 06-03-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 06-03-2006).]

Clipping is the Term used to describe the result of an amplifier running into power supply limitation. The maximum output voltage that any amplifier can produce is limited by its power supply. Attempting to output a voltage (or current) level that exceeds the power supply results in a flattoping effect on the signal, making it look cut off or "clipped." A clipped waveform exhibits extreme harmonic distortion, dominated by large amplitude odd-ordered harmonics making it sound harsh or dissonant. Hard clipping is the term used to describe extreme clipping of a signal, producing highly visible flattoped waveforms as viewed on an oscilloscope; soft clipping refers to moderate clipping that results in waveforms having softly-rounded edges, as opposed to the sharp edges of hard clipping. PS: This is talking about clipping when you 'overdrive' an amplifier and the signal is sent to speakers i.e. - A square ("clipped") waveform that occurs when the power output of an amplifier cannot meet the power requirement of the speaker it is driving. Clipping can be very harmful to high-frequency speakers (tweeters).

When recording audio, the same theory applies in that you are 'exceeding' the maximum allowable headroom or threshold i.e. "0.0" dB {when the recorded material is viewed through an oscilliscope, etc.} and in the case of the Tyros2 when you record a song it utilizes the Tyros2' "pre-amplifier", and consequently if the levels are too high the recording itself will contain clipping and can be heard on speakers; especially if there is excessive clipping present.

In other words, you are recording at too high of a level Dennis. That is the problem. You need headroom when recording so you do not run into clipping problems in the stuff you record.

Headroom is the ratio of the largest undistorted signal possible through a unit or system, to that of the average signal level. For example, if the average level is +4 dBu and the largest level is +26 dBu, then there is 22 dB of headroom. When you go beyond (above) Maximum Headroom or relatively speaking "0.0" decibels, you then start to experience the clipping effect.

Of course, it doesn't affect the Tyros2, but the recording, whether WAV or MP3 etc., affects the speakers of people who listen to the audio that has the clipping in it. Especially if the recording has hard or "excessive" clipping like the two you posted.

When listening to your two songs I could immeadiately tell there was clipping present in the recordings because my speakers started to distort with a crunching crackling like sound. Clipping is considered a No No and makes the recorded material sound less than optimal. Btw, my speakers are just fine and are in otherwise pristine working order. So it's not my speakers mind you.

I opened both of your songs into my Sound Forge 7.0b program and it has a feature that checks audio for clipping. Both of your songs were off the richter scale so to speak.

You say you recorded at the default recording levels on the Tyros. What do you mean exactly? The "volume" levels when recording need to be adjusted accordingly also. Too high of a volume level when recording will cause resultant clipping in the recorded material. I am guessing that's what happened when you recorded those two songs. If volume levels are not necessary or required when recording on the Tyros2 then the problem lies with the Tyros2' pre-amplifier recording level configuration I would guess. Either way, something is set too high or too "hot" when recording.

So this is just to make you aware of the situation Dennis. You may want to do some research on setting line levels so as to avoid the problem in the future. If the problem is 'hardware' within the Tyros2 then Yamaha needs to address it obviously. Or not so obviously if I know Yamaha like I know Yamaha.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 06-03-2006).]

The problem still exists in the revised songs Dennis.

Best regards,
Mike

Dennis,

I normally just use the standard media player to listen to files, but it's output goes through my USB audio card and into my master sound system. When I want to take a close look at an audio file, then I run it through Cool Edit Pro.

AJ

[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 06-03-2006).]

One thing I have noticed when recording on the Tyros2, you're best off to set the level at 50, leaving a lot of room for when you may be playing louder and/or the background gets louder. This way there is hardly any chance of clipping and it can always be normalized on your computers software recording program.

Best
Scott

Yes, but this way you are not using all the dynamics the keyboard can deliver; in other words, your recording will sound a bit "flat".

[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 06-03-2006).]

Ok... here it goes: if you record at a lower level the difference between the pianissimo (very low) and the fortissimo (very high) is reduced and this means a lack of dynamics. It's true that you can later normalize your recording, but this means increasing also the lowest levels. so your overall dynamics will always be reduced.
Just think of it in terms of decibels: in a quiet section the level is -say- 50 dB; then comes a peak and the level goes up to 90 dB; this means that you have a dynamic of 40 dB. If you reduce the recording level, you will never reach the 90 dB; it's true that you will never clip, but you will never attain those 40 dB of difference, and the same applies after normalization: the normalization process will give you a peak of 90 dB, but will increase the low levels as well, and so the difference between highest and lowest points will never be 40 dB.
Maybe professional studios have devices (like the old dbx) that can increase the peaks leaving the lows more or less unchanged, but the result will be less than natural and of course they cost an arm and a leg. This is the reason why all the manuals advice to record close to the clipping level, but without clipping. It is possibile, however, that with the hard disk recording process you have less control over the volumes.
I love to record at the highest possible level, but in the past had to redo more than one song because, after hearing the result, I realized that -at least in one point- I had gone into the "red zone".

Hope this all makes sense.

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 06-03-2006).]