Hi Starkeeper,
just wondering if you're still interested in Soundfonts.
Vquestor put me onto these ( I'm really grateful he found them) http://bennetng.kc-studio.com/AnotherGS/AnotherXG.html

I've just been doing some sound comparisons between it and my xg clavinova.
They don't stack up too badly.
By the way, they're free.

best wishes
Rikki

Rikki,
Yes. Actually, I tried Jos Maas' OMB this weekend and found it to be quite good. I demoed "Live Styler" a while back and it just did not sound "right" and kept aborting. Setting it up was very difficult, and took me a few weekends to get it working.
OMB, on the other hand, was much easier to setup, but I haven't tried MIDIing it up to my keyboard yet. Setting up for MIDI might be a little more challenging. I was surprised that it sounded "right". This is very encouraging.
Getting back to "Another GS". These would be used for styles or for solo voice as well?
I purchased Synergi GS a while back. How does AnotherGS compare with your "Edirol Sound Canvas"? Did you install "AnotherGS then AnotherXG"?
Starkeeper


[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 02-14-2005).]

Hi Starkeeper,
I'm a real fan of Jos's software.
(especially OMB). The latest one I've bought is "Busker". I've got 1000's of Busker/Fakebook scores. If I'm not sure how the tune goes ( which is often), all I have to do is use a dragn'drop method for putting in the melody notes/chords ( even does lyrics), pick a psr style & position the style parts in the score. It then plays the song back. I'm finding it great for auditioning various styles with a song. Handy to just sit back & listen to what style works & what doesn't.

I had a couple of problems with Livestyler playing some of my piano arpeggio styles, probably something I did wrong, but for me it's easier just using OMB, and having all the functions in the one program, style editor/creator, sequencer, arranger etc

Not sure whether I understood correctly, do you already have your Roland midied up to your computer? or are you reffering to setting OMB setup to work with your keyboard?

I've only just downloaded Another XG fonts. Whether they're good enough to use as melody, not sure, suppose it depends on the quality you require. The piano in it is really quite good. Really disliked the piano in the synergi font and I'm not overly wrapped in the piano in the Hypercanvas. Piano's play a major part in the styles I use. I did a bit of a test with some of my favourite styles. I connected my computer audio out to the audio in of my clavinova ( clp170 ) Using the same styles, I played them first with my clav's xg sounds, then with Another XG font. The main thing I had to alter was the volume of the drum track ( had to take it down from about 60 to 20 , to make it blend in with rest of the tracks). The drums plays a lot louder than the drums in the clav. That's no big deal.
One of the main styles I tested ( I had real hassles with it when I converted it for my kn7) was a particular waltz style from my 9000pro that uses brushes. I tried it with the font, and it works reasonably well. Some of the drums are going to need their velocities altered ie this particular style uses a brush swirl , tap, and bass drum. The brush swirl drowns out the bass drum.

I'd originally thought about editing the drums in the actual soundfont ( synergi at the time ), but it dawned on me that I wouldn't only be using my 9000 pro styles, I've also got styles from other sources and various keyboards. The drums in the font may then work ok with a 9kpro style, but still may not be correct for just a psr 2000 style.

Anyway, I think I may have solved the problem with OMB's track conversion table. All I need to do is setup conversion tables for any of the drumsets that need the velocities altered, and when I come across a style that requires the drums to be adjusted, I just use the conversion table to adjust it. These tables are saved ( they're sort of a template) and can be used over & over again. You can also them create them to convert xg drums to gm. Jos has a default one in the files of his user group.

Anyway I'm back on track, even ended up ordering an Audigy soundcard for my laptop to try and improve the quality. I think I'll end up using fonts instead of the Hypercanvas, and keep Hypercanvas for BIAB and midifiles. Actually with my setup I can use a mix of sound sources, my Clavinova for melody, Hypercanvas & Fonts for styles.

If I can be of any help , let me know.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[B]Rikki,


[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 02-14-2005).]

Rikki,
Busker sounds great. I will have to try this. I haven't found a decent, inexpensive, note editor. Will try it. Can you enter multiple notes on a staff?
I set up OMB and tested it using the computer keyboard, just to see what it would sound like. Will attach MIDI cables to my Roland and the computer this weekend and see if I can get it to work and have fun.
Is the cost of OMB ($50.00) in U.S. funds, Cdn funds, euros?
To be able to use "AnotherXG": you download "AotherGS" then just run the patch program. Correct? There isn't another file called "AnotherXG"?
"If I can be of any help , let me know."
Are you sure you want to say that?
Thank you for the link. It is appreciated. I'm really excited about moving forward this now.
Starkeeper


[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 02-15-2005).]

Have you seen these soundfonts? http://www.personalcopy.com/sfarkfonts1.htm
I really like the PC51 and Magic. Very good GM fonts to use as a base. Can't seem to find really good solo brass though. The Sonic Implants brass font isn't all it should be.

Hi Starkeeper,
unfortunately no. It's not really a notation program. It's strictly single note melody line input, but for playback, there is a harmony icon that you tick, and it plays back with additional 2 or 3 part harmony ( not quite sure which).

When it plays back, the melody is a bit mechanical sounding ie you can tell it's been done in steptime, if I want to play along for practice, I just reasign the melody channel ( midi channel 1) to a channel that's not in use, lower it's volume, and play along for practice. You can also save the "busker" file as a midifile and load it into the onboard sequencer for further editing. You can't go backwards though, ie meaning that midifile cannot be saved as a busker file.
Quite handy for people who don't read music as all you really have to do is copy the score.
What type of cables are you using?

The funds are in US Dollars.
Just make sure you follow the directions carefully for installing the "key" serial no's etc.
You actually install the Another GS program,
( keep a second copy of it, I've got both just in case I want to use a gs soundfont) then you install the patch which turns one of them into an xg font.)

Put it this way, if you do end up getting a more expensive psr like the 1500 or 2000, and don't end up using the fonts, OMB still won't be a waste. It's a really great psr style creator/editor. I originally bought the program for the editing functions alone, well before I'd thought of using it as a software arranger.

Actually these new font's have renewed my interest too, my dgx is going and I'm going to get myself a small controller keyboard.

The xg fonts are only about 30plus mb's, but they sound pretty good, I can only imagine what Frank's set up must sound like.

Don't know how much help I'll be , but the offer stands.

best wishes
rikki

You just bought the dgx, 305 I think. YOu are really impressed with those fonts.
Hmmm.
Starkeeper

Hi,
thank you for the link, I'll check it out.
If I find any sites with solo brass I'll let you know.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FAEbGBD:
[B]

Rikki, I think my accompaniment wavetable sounds fairly good - but it took some work to get it to that point. I to like good sounding pianos. So converted piano and other acoustic instruments sounds from the GM500 and have never looked back. Again I consider these sounds good enough for the accompaniment/live performances but not good enough for lead or melody parts. My modified sYnerGi GS wavetable is every bit as good as any XG hardware based wavetable and then some. I am not bragging just identifying that there are all kinds of sounds out there to improve your wavetables.

I am happy to see all this interest and effort in developing interesting software based arranger systems.

Rikki, I thought I would never hear you say that you would move towards a controller keyboard. Who would have thought??? Or is it that Rikki has to much time and money???

Once Kontakt 2 becomes available I will see whether it can load a GM wavetable. If it can I will then convert the whole of GM500 including the drums and use one instance of Kontakt for the accompaniment and another instance of Kontakt to run my melody parts. This would require converting the Yamaha styles to the GM format - especially the drums. Once I have this done I will likely retire from technical matters and play music until the angels come calling for the old man.

Hi Starkeeper,
the DGX served it's purpose. We were living between 2 residences for a few months. So I had the DGX in one house & the Clavinova setup at home.
I thought I could use it as a controller, and take it away on holidays etc, but discovered by the time I loaded up the car with pets , luggage etc there was no room left for hubby, unfortunately I need him to do the driving ( haa haa)
I'll probably just get a little 37 or 49 note controller, I've got a good set of headphones and I'm waiting for my new audigy sound card to arrive for my laptop. So I'll be truly portable. And yes, i am quite impressed with the new fonts.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Frank,
how have you been.
What sort of won me over again was the "another xg font". The piano sound in it is quite reasonable. Possibly because it sounds a bit more like my Clavinova's piano sounds. I may have to check that GM500 disk out one of these days and improve my wavetable.

Is the conversion process terribly difficult?

Don't get too excited Frank, I'm only getting a 37 or 49 note one, nothing too fancy. I want it for portability, discovered my dgx 76 note wasn't portable enough ( haahaa)
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]

Hi Frank,
Kontakt, I assume that's one of the synths you need a second harddrive for. ( I've even been checking into one of those)

Isn't converting all those drum styles to gm going to be an awful lot of work?

I worked out a way of doing it in OMB, you probably have too.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]

Rikki, I guess your are right. I won't rest until you acquire a very high quality 76 note controller which replaces all your keys including your Clavinova. Then and only then will we beable to say that Rikki has arrived and the rest of the world is standing in her shadow!!! One could say this even if she kept a 49 key controller for travel or other purposes.

Yes, it is alot of work to convert the GM500 wavetable to the Kontakt format (or Soundfont). The other disadvantage is the the size (500mb). This ideally should reside in your computers memory for use by your accompaniment software. The larger the size the longer it takes to load the wavetable and the less room for other things. Oh well!!!

And yes, it is alot of work changing all the styles to meet the GM standard. However, doing so (once) frees you to use many available GM wavetables. You may still need to change volume levels and effects but this is easy to do.

Yes, if you use Kontakt and very high quality instruments then you need to have second HD from which such instruments are streamed as you play.

But you can stay with your Another XG wavetable and only modify or replace those instruments you feel need to be improved.

Rikki,
I would not recommend a 49 note controller either. You need the extra keys for fills, sync start, stop, etc. You will have to have your computer keyboard close by to do those things. There was a picture a while back of a controler with a place on top of it for a computer keyboard. That would be excellent.
Living between two residences sounds familiar. I live in the country on the weekends and board in the city during the week. This is why I have two keyboards.
Frank,
What is the GM500?
I know you have explained this before, but could you explain again why Yamaha styles (drums especially) cause a problem when using a GM sound set. Speak s-l-o-w-l-y so I can understand completely. How do you correct this.
Starkeeper

Starkeeper, the GM500 is a 500mb General Midi Wavetable (128 instruments & Drumkit). Furthermore, this wavetable is designed to work in the GigaStudio soft synth and would need to be converted to whatever synth you may be using (soundfont, kontakt, etc.). Since GM is different from XG in the kind and number of instruments and the drum instruments are arranged differenctly within the kits you would need to change the styles so that they sound properly, e.g., snare drum rather than a dog howling or something like that or a piano playing rather than a drumkit. These changes are easy to make but they are time consuming.

Hi Frank,
at the moment I still mainly play piano based styles ( pianist at heart, but without the neccesary skills & talent).

Have I got this right? I bought a laptop with 512mb memory , the GM500 wavetable would actually use up 500mb of that memory, leaving me with 12mb . Apart from 500mb taking a long time to load, I wouldn't have enough memory left to run OMB & forte ( and even windows?? Does windows use part of my 512mb memory also).
So, if I tried to improve only some of the voices in the xg font, I'd have to keep it reasonably small or I'd run out of memory??
The larger the font, does it actually slow down the performance of the computer ie when I'm using OMB would it cause gliches etc, or is just that a large font needs longer to load? Sorry for all the questions Frank, but I don't know a great deal about the actual workings of a computer.

I can now see why audio streaming may be a good option if I want to get really good quality.

You're right, GM probably is the way to go , I was getting lazy. If I'm going to the trouble of converting velocities, converting instruments isn't that much extra work.
I've also got the Another GS Font as well/.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B].

Hi Starkeeper,
I actually use my laptops keyboard for fills , start stop etc I normally play in full piano mode, so I can't assign these functions to my piano keys.

When travelling , I don't really need the controller for realtime playing, just to use it for style editing, practicing melodies ( with Busker) etc . I'd need at least 76 notes to use one properly, and I'd run into the same problem that I had with the dgx, not enough room in the car.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[B]Rikki,

Rikki, yes the best approach is to have all of the 500mb wavetable loaded given it needs to respond very quickly to program changes (voice changes) within each style or midi file. You don't want any delays due to this. It wouldn't slow down the computer but it certainly will consume all the memory of your laptop. If program changes were not required you could then setup suitable synths to stream from the hard drive with very little of each instrument loaded to memory. Synths which designed to stream from the HD include Kontakt, Halion and GigaStudio.

That's why I compromised and only replaced those instruments that I needed in sYnerGi GS. This kept the size to 128mb.

So if you want to successfully do it the way I have then you need memory closer to 2GB. Again it dosen't slow the computer down. The thing that is hard on the processor is a high quality reverb. Effects can get the audio to break up. Ordinary effects like you find in Yamaha keyboards would not even be noticed by today's high speed computers. I use moderate to high quality effects - it makes a big difference in the quality of the audio output.

Hi Frank,
Hi Frank,
re your comment below in regards to streaming,
you are reffering to an external hard drive??

Actually I really don't use that many instruments within a style, mainly piano, bass, drums, guitar & strings, sometimes brass & woodwinds. I set up the styles to try & avoid program changes within the various style parts. So I'd really only have to upgrade a few instruments.

Looks like I'll have to stick to low grade effects, "eek" 2 gigs on my laptop, unfortunately still a bit too pricey, but fortunately prices appear to keep dropping.
Some day, who knows.

best wishes
Rikki

p.s. how's your wife, last time we spoke she wasn't too well.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]the best approach is to have all of the 500mb wavetable loaded
If program changes were not required you could then setup suitable synths to stream from the hard drive with very little of each instrument loaded to memory.

Rikki, yes the second (or external) HD is used to stream large high quality instruments such as Bardstown Piano at 2.3GB.

You don't need to go to the highest quality effects to get good results. Effects place demands on the processor not your memory so much.

Thanks for asking about my wife. These have been very dark days and many tears. She is going for her first Chemo this coming Monday for lung cancer. The doctors have not been able to find the source of this cancer (breast, colon, pancreas, etc.). This makes it harder for them to devise the appropriate treatment.

I am becoming increasing disabled from arthritis. I am waiting for hip replacement - a 24 month wait. This makes for two old people barely being able to help each other. Don't get me wrong both of us are eternally grateful for what we have achieved especially in light of the fact that we are also mentally challenged. We went through life without assistance from others - so far.

Rikki,
1) How/where do you postion the laptop while you are playing the keyboard?
2) How are you playing the piano, in full keyboard mode, to trigger the correct chords? Whenever I try to play in full keyboard mode, I need to hit chords with my left or right hand to get the arranger to recognize what chords to play. How does that affect your playing style?
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 02-17-2005).]

Frank,
I am sorry about your wife's health. My prayers are with you.
Arthr-its. "Its" means inflamation. It is not a virus or bacteria. Most alternative doctors consider it to be an auto-immune response. It is your own immune system attacking something it shouldn't. My wife's naturopath, who has arthritis as well, recommend that she follow a diet from Peter D'adamo's book/diet called Eat Right For Your Blood Type. When she follows this diet she has less pain, when she is off it it comes back. Just a thought from Dr. Quack.
Mentally challenged. LOL.
Starkeeper

Starkeeper, thanks for your concern and advice.

Hi Starkeeper,
I've tried a few methods.
With the piano, I just sit it on top.
DGX, I have a little coffee table? approx 8x12 inches, so I just sit that next to me,
I've also used a really cheap remote computer keyboard i picked up at the grocery store. i can rest it on the piano's music stand. Jos I beleive also has stickers that you stick on your keys ie intro1 variations etc ( haven't tried that). The beauty is , in OMB setup, you can actually assign which keys do what function. ie q w e can be your 3 intro's. Basically you can set it up to how it suits you. I've left a lot of the functions out, because I don't use them.

Settings,
Chord Fingering
Full Keyboard
With this method I can play the chords anywhere on the piano, either left or right hand chords. Have to hit at least 3 keys at once for a chord change to occur.
Takes a bit of getting used to, so just fool around. I mainly use piano as my melody instrument, so this setting suits me well.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[B]Rikki,
1)

Frank,
so sorry to hear you are both not well. As for the tears, I know full well, I shed quite a few myself last year during my husbands illnes.
My husband's mother had lung cancer 5 years ago. They operated etc etc She's fine now and in her mid 80's. They do wonders nowadays.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]

"I've also used a really cheap remote computer keyboard i picked up at the grocery store"
An excellent idea. Thanks Rikki.
Starkeeper

Rikki, thanks for your kindness and understanding.

I purchased OMB. Will set it up this weekend.
Starkeeper

Hi Starkeeper,
how did you go with the OMB setup.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[B]

Setting up the official version of OMB was nice and smooth. I haven't tried to MIDI it up to my keyboard yet. Maybe next weekend.
I also installed AnotherXG. I can't say that I can tell the differnece between that and SynergiGS, but will have to do more tests.
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 02-21-2005).]

[Hi Starkeeper,
great to hear everything went ok.
I mainly noticed the difference in the piano sounds, between the synergi & the another xg.

If there's no great difference, it starts to make me wonder if something may have gone wrong with my Synergi download.

Congtratulations on your new psr1500.

best wishes
Rikki

QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[B]

I didn't notice any difference in the playing of styles, didn't compare the pianos. I noticed that Another XG is slightly smaller then SynergiGS.
Starkeeper

I'm thinking that I wud buy a 2.1 speaker system this weekend. This is my software arranger setup so far:
Hi speed computer system with 80 gig drive.
Soundblaster sound card.
OMB arranger software.
Live Synth Pro
GS and AnotherXG soundfonts.
Roland keyboard as a MIDI controller (with MIDI cables)
What wud be the next step? Will need decent solo instruments. What do you use as a wrapper?
What do you use as a host for vst instruments?
Starkeeper


[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 02-25-2005).]

Hi Starkeeper,
Frank recommended (host) http://www.brainspawn.com/products/forte/?op=downloadDEMO

( Midi Yoke, are virtual midi cables to connect your host & OMB) http://www.midiox.com/index.htm?http://www.midiox.com/myoke.htm

and I also needed an asio driver for my laptop http://michael.tippach.bei.t-online.de/asio4all/

as for solo instruments , I can't help as I'm mainly a piano player, and I'm still using my Clavinova for solo sounds.

I think you could actually play your xg fonts via your sblive?? soundcard for time being, until you get yourself fully set up.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[B]I'm thinking that I wud buy a 2.1 speaker system this weekend. This is my software arranger setup so far:
Hi speed computer system with 80 gig drive.
Soundblaster sound card.
OMB arranger software.
Live Synth Pro
GS and AnotherXG soundfonts.
Roland keyboard as a MIDI controller (with MIDI cables)
What wud be the next step? Will need decent solo instruments. What do you use as a wrapper?
What do you use as a host for vst instruments?
Starkeeper

Thanks for the links. Will try Brainspawn. I do store AnotherXG in my SB Live card and play it from there. Sounds pretty good. My Roland has 64 styles with 2 variations with no user styles area. It was very nice to get 4 variations and virtually unlimited styles. I compared the piano in AnotherXG to SynergiGS and they are different, but I don't consider one better then the other.
I didn't purchase a 2.1 speaker system yet, but there is now one on sale at BestBuy this week.
I connected my Roland with MIDI cables to my computer and was able to get it working with no problem. I had a bit more trouble trying to get a left voice playing through OMB and playing the right voice through the Roland, but there is a very usefull utility program in the settings area that allows you to view what happens when you press a key. It tells you what note was received on what channel. This was very helpfull and I got it going. Left voice playing the styles thru OMB and right voice live through the Roland system.
When I was on that screen I noticed that pressing some function buttons on the arranger actually produced MIDI data (I thought all buttons were interrups!!!!). It could be possible, if OMB allowed it, to trigger fills, variations, etc. using buttons on the arranger.
I think you mentioned a link to an OMB forum. Can you give me that again.
Thanks
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 02-28-2005).]

Hi Starkeeper,
good to hear you got everything up and running.
Just goes to show we all have different tastes in sounds.

Under settings " midi out" you should be able to pick and choose which soundsource is used for each of the midi channels.

OMB Group http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/onemanbandgroup/

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[B].
I compared the piano in AnotherXG to SynergiGS and they are different, but I don't consider one better then the other.