DigitalVision,

Here is an analogy to what you are saying:

My 1960 Ford had a six cylinder engine, 4 wheels, a roof, and 4 doors.

My 2004 Ford has a six cylinder engine, 4 wheels, a roof and 4 doors.

Therefore there is nothing new in automobiles.

This is simply not the case with cars and it is not the case with arrangers. Just as in cars there are quality, performance and refinement differences between the older and newer stuff. You don't feel that these differences merit you spending your money. That's cool and it is your decision and on this forum we can respect that. Many of us feel that higher quality sounds, better vocal harmonizers, livelier sounding drums and styles, smart card storage, and bigger color display screens are worth our money.

Tom

I too wish there was one keyboard with the functionality of a great arranger like Tyros or PA1X but with the quality of the Motif.

I love my PSR-2000 but am very disappointed in the piano sounds sounding flat and lifeless, and the strings sounds just blahh. The quality and variety of the Motif sounds make it hard to believe that its the same company that manufacturers both instruments.

Yamaha Folks - Create a Tyros+Motif T/M PRO and you will have a winner.

Well said Tom!!

I agree that most of the Arranger keyboards have DIFFERENT synthesizer engines than the workstations.

The PSR and TYROS have synth engine similar to the MU series sound modules. It's also similar to the XG sound cards.

Hence the sound shaping and processing DSPs are different than the synhtesizer workstations. And that's why there is not options detailed sound editing on PSR and TYROS.. like changing the filter types, changing the LFOs... etc..

In my opinion YAMAHA has fooled people with TYROS.. it's no way a 'pro' arranger. They should have worked on 9000Pro line to make it better.

I would love to have the Fantom-X sound engine in G-70.

KORG PA-1x is some of the few arrangers which let you edit sounds in detail like TRITON... but again they stripped off the effects section of TRITON.

The next difference is the SEQUENCER. The sequencers on PSR and TYROS are a BIG JOKE. I don't know if someone actually uses it to record tracks from scratch. I think mostly people are using it playback MIDI files, and just reassigning the sounds etc. None of the sequencer Editing tools offered on MOTIF ES are available on TYROS.... and the funniest thing is that PSR1500, PSR2000, PSR3000, 9000Pro and TRYOS all have the same joke sequencer. A $3000 keyboard has the same sequencer as the $1000 one. Go figure.

Despite all this, I don't think workstations are capable of the realtime performance features of the Arrangers. And that's why there are arrangers.

You can't really argue that an Arranger is a good workstation, and a Workstation is a good arranger too. They are different.

What we hope is that some company will take the bold step and create a Hybrid keyboard and Merge the feautres of the top workstation and the top arranger WITHOUT dropping any features..

Fooled? The word pro was NOT included in its name. Even so, whether its officially designated as pro or not, the Tyros is MORE than taking care of all my PRO player requiremenets (everyday) for me. - Scott



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http://scottyee.com

Yes, in MY opinion, specially for that price, YAMAHA fooled us. Regardless of the fact wether it's pro or not.

TC,

Your point about cars wasn't bad, but maybe its a generation thing cause it doesnt relate to arrangers. Companies as a matter of fact have bought over far more efficient technology to run cars (newsflash: the US and UK invaded Iraq for that very purpose), but you cant reinvent the wheel so to speak. Four wheels, a body, doors.... (you get the picture).

Arrangers are nothing more than software in a hardware case that could be radically improved over the years, but as ive mentioned in this thread they have gone nowhere. Look around the net for arranger keyboards over the years and you will see simple tech' updates that again are hand-me-downs from workstations.

The P3k is a cutdown Tyros with added technology from the Motif. The 1X is an upgraded 80 that looks lots like the i30 of 6 years ago, only colour screen and a so called improved sound engine and sampling from the T. (Yep, the motif got the tyros megas, but megas are nothing more than multisamples that have existed for over 10 years = hype BS).

Also if you look at styles, we have seen nothing of features like improvisational type accomp's. Why the hell dont korg put in karma features on an arranger? It would hurt karma sales of course, when the karma was actually designed as an arranger in the first place (s kay is a long time arranger user and programmer).

I used to own a Motif 7 but sold it due to money problems. Yamaha could easily, technically put in arranger styles into the pattern sequencer and provide chord recognition for those patterns and provide chord input to help with composition. I would rather wait 3 years for this and pay once than waiting 4 years and pay twice.

As for Roland, man those guys are in need of a good boot up the arse. Their sounds are a bit too polished for my liking and remind me of Phil Collins (LOL), and as for their arranger efforts, again they borrow from the R+D from workstations.

The whole problem/situation looks like THE BIG THREE dont want to scare arranger users off with advanced features and vice-versa - they dont want to scare off synth users with arranger/home type features.

There is of course 'a perfect scenario' and that is to keep arrangers as they are for the lower end users, and those that can't really play (you know, those that didnt attend music conservatory from knee high, didnt go to music college, didnt take the music classes at school, or started after 19yo etc.....). LOL ... and before that comment blackballs me from the bbs, you just know you want to play from knee high in any event!!!!

Anyways the situation here as far as I can see is some people here are either intentionally/unintentionally playing the game. The game looks like putting out the same ol' crap every 2 years and getting the sucker punters to shell out their hard earned cash for yet another bloody upgrade that costs an arm and a leg.

For example I walked into my local store in Manchester recently to see what they had in stock. A few lowender Yammies, no Rolands and one or two Korgs. I asked for a price for the PA1X, the speaker model and got a quote of £2,400. I thought there and then (as some1 who doesnt work in music for a living) that it would take me four years to pay for this on credit, and i would be working 2 and a bit days out of the month to pay for it.

When you really think of it on a larger scale. I'd HATE TO THINK that in any way shape or form any player would buy a keyboard on the viewing of posts on this forum (I once made that foolish mistake ). Many players are clearly stuck in their ways and many are hard for cash and personally it would be nice to think that regulars here take 'RESPONSIBLE' care NOT to put across an ad for the companies.

Getting back to why we're here, its music, and for my money arranger keyboards are in no shape or form as good as they could be and I would rally fellow members here to impress that fact upon manufacturers to get the finger out of their ass to create better products. The new G70 is nothing new.

shakil, i thought the genests pro was both a proffessional arranger and workstation?maybe someone else will comment on this,mike

No marketing muscle behind that LAMER mate.

I like my PSR3000 and for the price it's a great machine. Not perfect - but neither is any one of the other keyboards that are twice the price and more.


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drdalet