I went to my local music shop as i often do tocheck out the latest arranger keyboards. I had the opportunity of playing the PSR3000. Iinreally is of poor build quality but more than that i was not impressed with sound quality either. I heard the keyboard through its own built in speakers and the piano sounded dull and lifeless. Maybe it was just the way the EQ was set on the board or the fact that the shop is rather large . But i own a Yamaha PSR 8000. It also has built in speakers but with concrete blocks in them to give the sound more creibility. Frommy stand point my old keyboard that must be some 7 years old now from its own speakers sounded much better than the 3000 and the build quality is much better. I cant help but think that somewhere in the mad rush to buy something new we are really not getting value for money. My keyboard could be bought for about £400.00 now. The 3000 cost arond £1200. There is no way i wouldpay that kind of money for it compared to what i already have.

Look at any top arranger keyboard from 5-6 years ago and you will not see a dramatic difference to todays models. Sounds are a bit better, but not by much.

Drum sounds have drastically improved over the last yearor so alone. The VA7, SD1, Tyros, PA80 .... these are worlds above the drum sounds of 3 or more years ago.

Overall, the new stuff has cleaner samples, longer samples and better effects.

Yes, the psr8k was built nice and had nice speakers, but the general sound and the reduced fill-ins (2) make it yesterdays news to me.

Give me the next newest thing every time.....at least till I find out what it can do!

So Dave, are you saying there is actually anything NEW with arranger keyboards? More of this, more of that doesn't mean new.

Look how far PCs and software have come over a 6 year period.

THERE IS NOTHING NEW IN THE ARRANGER SCENE AND WE AS USERS SHOULD DEMAND MORE! Looking at the posts on this forum it looks to an outsider as many are trying to keep the status quo. That ship has long since sailed.

Digitalvision, I realize you weren't addressing me directly, but, for what it's worth, imo, in addition to this new feature or that, the improved QUALITY (over the last 5 year) of both sound samples as well as styles (seemingly less canned sounding) have improved not just a little, but significantly, making it worth (at least imho) an upgrade investment to a current arranger keyboard. - Scott

DigitalVision, I wholeheartedly agree with Scott. Today's aranger keyboards are light years ahead of where they were just five years ago. The PSR-740 was a gigantic advancement over the PSR-500, the when the 2000 came out, it only took performers a few minutes of exploring the board's attributes to make the decission to upgrade. The PSR-3000 and Tyros have made huge strides in advancing the quality of sampling, plus provided users with one of the must user friendly operating systems available today. That, combined with USB, HD and SM storage, instant access, increible numbers of excellent third party style files, plus relatively low cost made Yamaha the front-runner, IMO, when it comes to which keyboard to purchase.

When I hear individuals talk about poor quality in construction, those statements usually come from those who do not perform on a regular basis at a number of different locations. When you must set up and tear down 4 to 8 times weekly, week after week, month after month and year round, lugging a 55-pound keyboard around in an equally heavy hard case just doesn't make good sense. The same holds true for PA systems, and all the other associated equipment that performing OMB entertainers use in order to be competitive and successful.

I'll stick with the so-called cheesy keys, lightweight plastic housing, aluminum speaker stands, 36.5-pound powered speakers, and load it all on my Rock-N-Roller. Every time I load and unload the cart and van my back says THANK YOU! Advances in arranger keyboards--YOU BET--and lots of them.

Gary

Oh, you are SO wrong about that.

Listen to the drum dounds for starters, then look at the USB connections and Smart Media cards, the dual sequencers on Korg PA series, the ability to "morph" styles on Rolands VA series. The MP3 playback on the Gem Genesis and Korg PA1x! ( and CDRs too ! )

The SD1 and the Tyros/3k let you mix a style in real time with a sequence, and the Yamaha even lets you add the whole arranger to a sequence while it's playing !
( not that it's a good thing, but cool anyway )

There are MANY, MANY added features and improvements made since the psr8000, and they are very easy to appreciate. You gotta play them all to see what's new. That's why I change so often .... BECAUSE of the new stuff. If nothing was added, I wouldn't need the new gear.

Take a closer look and really listen too. There's LOTS of brand new features and sounds to love.

I hear you Dave . I am a gigging musician in a sense. I play for various Gospel choirs and groups in and around Birmingham and the west midlands UK.I dont get paid but i work just as hard never the less. I work full time in the day time as i have a family to support to support. But most weekends i am sat around the keyboard with some young people either jamming or arranging on the fly.

For me it is crucial that if i purchase a keyboard it does all that i need it to do quickly and well and much better than how i do now. Minor incremental changes do not interests me. I have not upgraded my Yamaha PSR 8000 yet because
1. Obviuously these new boards come at a premium price!
2. The new features that are being marketed as new are actually a lot of the old features "tweeked abit".
3 I have yet to listen to a new arranger that sounded like i should pay another £2000 . Although some of the boards have newer samples and more sounds the actual difference in quality is not majorly significant unless you are in a studio .
4.There is very little in terms of what i do, writing and arranging that the new boards inspire either through sound or function to make the next investment.

I owned a Technics KN1000 before the Yamaha and it was about 4 years before i upgraded to the Yamaha. There was to my ears a step change in tonal quality and functionality between the two not least of which was the sampling facility and the vocal harmoniser.Both completely revolutionary functions to an arranger board. I still use the sampler now live in rehersal and in playback in performance in church.

However i do agree with you that the drum samples have improved significantly over the years. The other significant improvements in instrument sound has been some of the soprano saxes that really sound convincing to the point of disbelief! And some of the acoustic guitars.But not a whole lot else.

The Korg PAX sounds very interesting but if i were to purchase it , it would have to be in a couple of years time when the price has come down to justify the purchase.

The synth sounds are always interesting asthey dont have to sound like any real instrument and so you have nothing to compare it to. But i guess my focused use of sounds makes them of limited value.

Touch screens dont interest me, colour screens dont interest me,i can live with heavier weighted intruments if the sound quality is there. ( i have sufficient young Church brothers who i can enlist to carry my board) so my back does not need to thank me for another board yet.

I guess i am just waiting to be "wowed" again.... The newer Roland synths with the skip back sampling and realpianos are very interesting and if these facilities were available on an arranger then i would be very interested

There were a couple of justified replies there, but as a whole, no one has addressed the main point in that there's nothing NEW in the arranger scene and really, no one came up with a valued argument.

Most of the features mentioned above, are throw me downs from workstations. And I guess my point AGAIN is, put arranger features into a workstation. Obviously there is still a market for toy keyboards like the PSR1500, PA50 etc. These would be better left as 'arrangers', while workstations should appeal to the high end of a SINGLE high-end pro synth/arranger user market.

One other main point raised above is the so called improved quality of sounds. It just goes to show you how 'bad' the sounds were in the first place.

Am I understanding this right, that everyone is telling me here that they WOULDN'T LIKE TO HAVE A MOTIF AND TYROS AS ONE, OR A TRITON AND 1X, G70 AND FANTOM?



[This message has been edited by digitalvision (edited 10-01-2004).]

When you think about it, and take a good look at the specs, the PSR-3000 fits the bill of being a hybrid between the Motif and Tyros.

Gary