Hello dear music experts. I am planning on buying a half-professional key-board to instumentalize my songs and also hopefully to play as arranger with my sis. Well, first I saw that Casio board on sale and I was quite impressed. But my research led me to all this other key-boards where the features differ quite a bit.

I am not sure about Roland, but my comparison of Casio and Yamaha was as followed:

- Yamaha has a Vocal Harmonizer, Casio doesn't. So since I want to compose songs, I am probably better off with Yamaha!?

- Yamaha has a better compatibility, I heard.

- I heard, that Yamaha's customer service sucks though - that would be a killer for me, I will definitely need some support....... Casio has a great Manual for people like me.

Anything else, and the difference to the Roland??? Please give me some new ideas here, because I am really not sure what to buy! Thanks, jrudnitz

Pound for pound ... the psr2000 will give you the most for your money. The Casio is a dead horse that will have NO third party support in the future, the Roland is nice, but dated and no vocal inputs, so that leaves the Yamaha. The keypad is flimsy, so be careful, but lots of guys are using them every week with no problems. It's a great bargain for what you pay/what you get.

If you're not going to use the vocal section .... maybe there are better choices, but as far as what you told us ..... I'd recommend the 2k.

Hello jrudnitz,
Welcome to the forum.
I can only really comment on the EM2000 as I used to own this board. It has excellent sounds and the styles are to Rolands usual high standard. It has a built in zip drive as well as floppy drive which is immensly useful. It had a cool feature where you could play the first few notes of a melody and it would search its database of midi files to find the song/sequence. Much faster than manually searching through hundreds of midi files to find the one you want. Some of the accoustic piano styles were excellent. I really missed these when I sold the board. The only thing that I found intimidating about the EM2000 was the operating system. This was probably my fault as I had never used Roland before and found it a little more difficult to access what I wanted quickly. Also there is no mic input on the EM. All in all it was an excellent board and I still miss many things about it. You could do a lot worse for your first keyboard. There are people here whose expertese re this board far exceeds mine. Graham UK for one knows this board inside out.

I have played the PSR 2000 and was VERY impressed with it. There are pro musicians who gig with this board and are very happy with it. Scott Yee and Don M (to name but two) both use this keyboard professionally. This is a relatively new board (compared to the EM2000 and The Casio) so there are bound to be more advanced or newer features on it than with the others. Apparantly by all accounts the harmoniser and mic effects on the PSR2000 are really very good. I would not worry too much about customer service (from a technical aspect at any rate) as there are lots of resources on the web especially for Yamaha. Indeed here at Synthzone you will find any number of people happy to help you both before and after you buy (whatever board you decide on).

I remember that when the Casio first came out a few people were quite surprised and it was percieved to be much better than earlier offerings. I really cannot comment here as I have never owned a casio but if reputation is anything to go by then I would make my choice from one of the two boards above and leave the casio alone. (Sorry MZ owners )
Hope that this helps
Tony

I really wouldn't compare the MZ-2000 with the PSR-2000.. When the MZ was released it real competition at the time was the PSR-740. I'm a former owner of the MZ and for a Casio keyboard it completely kicks butt.. I don't know why they don't continue to make more keyboards like it. The sounds were not the typical Casio sounds you hear on the CTK series or the WK series. The sounds were pretty damn good though... Some of the sax sounds were better than the Yamahas, and at the time the PSR-740's sequencer couldnt even be compared with the Casio MZ-2000.. The MZ-2000's sequencer however can be compared with the PSR-2000.. It does everything from step recording to event editing, track merging, copy, and a lot of other functions.. The arranger section on the MZ wasn't too bad.. You had room for 10 custom styels, and 20,000 notes to record styles.. The sequencer was 17 tracks and had room for 40,000 notes.. The only thing the MZ beats the PSR-2000 on is speakers, and that's it.. The MZ-2000 is 15 watts and boy is it loud too.. However I wouldn't compare the MZ-2000 with the PSR-2000.. The PSR-2000 is a more recent model for Yamaha and the MZ I believe was released 2 years ago. The PSR-2000 would be a much much much better choice than the MZ.. Also it depends on your budget too.. I've seen the MZ for dirt cheap.. At one time DanO had them going for I believe $650.00.., but if you want amazing features for the price take the PSR-2000.. It's Just over $1,000, but it performs and sounds like a more expensive keyboard...

Squeak

PSR-2000

It has better styles and sounds.

I would go for the PSR-2000 if I had to choose between these 3,
But I went to the music store yesterday and compared the Yamaha PSR-2000 to the Ketron XD-9.
I think that the XD-9 is much better than the PSR-2000, The sounds and styles are amazing.

The question of bad customer support is of great importance to all who buy keyboards. I am actually surprised to read that your experience in talking to people is that Yamaha is the bad one and not Casio. I am a music store owner in southern California. I am familiar with all these models mentioned. I have either sold them when they were made or currently sell them if they are current models. Even though I do sell a few Casio models which I believe offer good value to end users, I have never had a good experience with their technical support. In fact, I have never once ever been able to talk with one! When I first got the WK1800 in I wanted to know something about it's operation. Four phone calls, left voice mail messages and no one ever called back. This is one of the reasons I stopped selling Casio several years ago, and because members of this forum liked the MZ2000 when it first came out, I decided to give them a try again. I currently sell 4 of their products which are good and well made, but I do have to say they are pretty far down my list of good customer service companies. Next, I would like to address the Yamaha service and support issue. In my thirty years of dealing with Yamaha and knowing all the technical support team member as well as product managers and sales managers, I have always received quick responses to my questions and problems over the years. I think the biggest gripe consumers have is calling Yamaha and being told all technicians are busy and you are given a case number and are told that a tech will get back to you within 24 hours. With sometimes so many calls coming in, the reason yamaha started this system was to assure you that when you call, you will talk to someone and not get a message machine. This, "front line" person has limited knowledge of the products and can sometimes answer a question, but when it is over his or her head, he must refer this to a senior tech person. I think this is where the problem often lies. When we have a question and are frustrated, we want an answer right now! and the last thing we whant to hear is that someone will have to call us back! Unless Yamaha and other companys can hire more tech support people, this will continue to be the case.
I have always told my customers that if they have a problem getting through, call me,it's why I consider myself a better dealer than some, and I will try to help or at least I can call Yamaha, and because I am a dealer who knows alot of people at Yamaha, I can always get to someone who can help within a matter a minutes(as long as everyone is not at a NAMM show!)
I agree with all the comments about the PSR2000. It is still a great value and a very dependable keyboard. I also sell the Ketron XD9 and it too is a top quality keyboard although it cost more with comparable features such as the vocal harmonizer.
My advice to you is to make sure you buy from a dealer who will go the extra mile for you if necessary. With competition the way it is today, we are all selling for very similar prices. Many members of this forum who have purchased things from me over the years know what it is like to have somone to call and either get an answer or be able to be told exactly what and who to go to in order to resolve a problem. When you look for the cheapest price, just make sure that their price includes the ability to help if things go bad after you buy. This is a topic I have talked about before and I don't want to offend anyone here but I think occassionaly it is worth bringing up because I think it's important to know how different manufactures work and how different music stores support customers.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Hello George,
I think there is a vast difference to the customer support you get from your dealer to the one that you get (or expect) from the manufacturer.

I agree that this is why we need to choose our dealers wisely. I can accept that to Yamaha, technics, casio, korg or whoever I am just another person that bought their product. Actually I am not....the dealer bought it (and probably for much less than he charged me ) so I am removed even futher from the manufacturer. I cannot expect that if Yamaha sold 20,000 PSR9000 that they are willing to offer each of us the undivided attention we might think we deserve. Why should they? The dealers country wide will still stock the PSR**** even if I vow never to buy another Yamaha product because the CEO never answered my email.

Now the dealer is another matter. He got my cash....he gave me advice....he flatters me everytime I go into his shop just so that I feel comfortable giving him more of my money. Not that I mind this at all. It is his job and at the end of the day if he does it right then we both end up happy. If I have a problem with my purchase then it is him I go to. I know his face, he knows how I think and if he wants me to keep going back he has got to keep me happy. Of course I expect that if my board is flawed or damaged the dealer will have access to the maufacturer to sort the problem.....but that is his job not mine. That is why he got his cut on the deal....to deal with the hassle and get things done if the need arises. If my car breaks down I don't rush off to Ford's head office....I go back to my dealer at the local garage and he does what he has to to get me back in my car in as short a time as possible. It is just the same thing imho.

I'm not having a pop George it's just that I think that sometimes we (end users) expect too much from the big corps that make our boards. If they were able (or even inclined) to offer that kind of personal service to each of us then ultimately there would be no need for the dealer at all. In all the years I have been buying keyboards I have never once had to deal with a manufacturer direct. My dealer see's me more often than he see's his wife .....but that's another story
ttfn
Tony

I have owned both the PSR2000 and the MZ 2000. My PSR2000 was chock full of bugs and I got impatient while waiting ( over 2 months ) for a replacement or repair of mine, and the dealer refunded my money. I then purchased the Yamaha Motif ( non arranger workstation ) from him.

My experiences with Yamaha service on two separate occasions have not been pleasant at all. I liked the MZ2000 when I had it, and in some ways I regret that I traded it in, but the Korg PA80 ( arranger ) that I replaced it with is head and shoulders above it in almost every category.

Having said all of this, I would still easily pick the PSR2k over the MZ2000. It's styles just sound better and it has excellent sounds and more ( and better ) features. The one area where the MZ outshined the PSR was in voice editing parameters. The MZ offered editing on par with a good workstation including access to and the ability to combine the raw samples. I agree with Squeak too. The MZ's velo alto sax was by far the best I have heard on any arranger. The electric / overdriven guitars were also outstanding. Overall though, the PSR boards have a lot of sounds that I felt are better than the MZs. The MZ also had a built in midi file to style converter, but the freeware Yamaha software midi file to Yamaha style converter offered by Michael P Bedesem works just as well and is simpler and quicker to use. The MZ has a better key feel too. The PSR's key feel is very flimsy to me. Still, the PSR outshines it by far, and as was said before, forget any after market support ( from the dealer OR users ) or upgrades for the MZ. It hasn't and likely won't ever happen.

My experiences with the EM2000 are minimal and it has been a while since I played one. I liked the sounds and styles, but found the OS to be a pain to navigate and just clunky in general. I recently played the successor to the EM / G series line ( the VA76 ) and I actually like the board a whole lot .almost.. but not quite enough to trade my PA80 away for one.

AJ




[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 09-22-2002).]

Hi Aj

What is the Michael Bedesem site?

Chico

Hi Chico ,

I believe the 'midi file to Yamaha Style' utility program that AJ is referring to is called: 'StyleMaker' and is available for download (free) on Simon William's terrific site: http://svpworld.com/util_stylemaker.htm

Michael P Bedesem's many other highly useful Yamaha PSR utility programs are also available on the SVP World site as well: http://svpworld.com/psr_software.htm

Much gratitude & kudos to Michael P Bedesem for all he has given to the Yamaha user community. We are indebted.

One BIG reason I'm happy I went the Yamaha PSR keyboard route (PSR2000) is because of the terrific community support (free software: styles, utility programs, etc) & huge user base (Yahoo forums, etc).

Scott

I have never owned a Casio, but tried helping a friend who bought one. All he cared about were the organ sounds...and they were good. But, I had trouble with navigation.

The Roland EM2000 styles felt too busy to me and many had l-o-n-g endings and only two variations.

The PSR2000 required a little extra effort to understand the operating system, but I love the styles, the speed, the lightweight, most all the instruments and editing capabilities. Because of it's "economical" construction it requires a little more care in handling...but overall, its the suits me best for the one nighters I play.
Eddie

Hello there,

well I am quite overwhelmed by all the replies! I didn't expect it to be such a great functioning forum (since I know it different from other ones).

I live in Germany so I will be buying the board here and I would definitely get a greater deal on Casio (around 20% less than Yamaha), but the price is less important to me than the quality and musical possibilities. I do love the design of Casio and the "manual" drawbars seem to be more practical for making own music. But listening to this forum - none of You really adviced me to buy it. I guess I am better off with Yamaha then - especially since there are so many knowledgable owners and specialists inhere who can help me discover "what all those bottons are" .

Thanks a lot,
jrudnitz

Hi Sqeak,

it is kind of funny, because You keep on saying how great PSR is, but list all the great features of MZ at the same time. So what is exactly the advantage of PSR then?

See, my problem or my worry is - I might be able to work as arranger later on, but first of all I do want to try to write my own music (I have songs and my sister is a singer, so what we want to do is make our own "relatively" professional CD). I need rather good editing capabilities (like making own rythmes, mixing etc. etc.). Is PSR better at that??

Thanks for Your help, jrudnitz


[QUOTE]Originally posted by squeak_D




[This message has been edited by jrudnitz (edited 09-28-2002).]

Hi George,

You are so very right - that is exactly why I don't really want to purchase this keyboard online, although it would be almost 15% cheaper for me this way. I do have a feeling that I need someone who can answer my questions live and who can mediate between me as an end user and the manufacturer.

But I am from Germany though, and I don't really have to many choices on dealers here. Too bad California is so far

Thanks for Your response,
jrudnitz

[QUOTE]Originally posted by George Kaye



[This message has been edited by jrudnitz (edited 09-28-2002).]

If the price is not a problem go for a psr2000.

I think it is the best choice. It has a "yamaha" logo that the casio has not,
and it has a vocal harmonizer too.
And you will find much more support from other users than with mz2000.

I have read that the mz2000 has been discontinued.

???

I did break the chain once, buying a casio wk1200 before I promptly took it back and exchanged it for a psr740. Ok, so these two boards can't fairly be compared but having extensively listened to all of casio's offerings in the keyboard front, I'd leave them well alone. In my opinion Casio styles are dreadful, over complex, overquantised, and very "Japanese" sounding (whatever that means!). I still can detect that digital buzzy raw thin sound in casio keyboards, they seem to lack warmth and remind me of the days of the old ck's and casiotones which sounded like a clarinet with a cold! They also seem to have a little "chiff" of noise to their sounds, weird! The yamaha sounds have much more interesting dynamics, they change with velocity in timbre and are warmer, fatter and thicker. Don't get me wrong, casio are very good at squeezing technology into cheap small boxes and they drip with features and flashy buttons, but they lack musical warmth for me. Saying this, I still love my Casio VL-1 !!!
Yes I think its a settled vote that the PSR2000 is the choice to make, value for money and quality/support. Its good to fix the amount of money you are planning to spend and then see what you can get for that, there's also a lot of 2nd hand bargains in the arranger world!

Regards
Simon



------------------
________________________
Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
________________________

Hello Bluezplayer,

> The one area where the MZ outshined the PSR was in voice editing parameters. The MZ offered editing on par with a good workstation including access to and the ability to combine the raw samples.

Are You saying that for writing own music MZ would be better then??? I mean editing is exactly what I need, because I will be trying to instrumentalize my songs my sister is going to sing. And PSR doesn't have this combining capabilities?

Thanks a lot for Your help,
jrudnitz
_________________


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bluezplayer



[This message has been edited by jrudnitz (edited 09-28-2002).]

Jrudnitz,
Bluezplayer is talking about editing the sounds/tones/patches. Changing the sounds so that it effectively creates a new tone. Sounds like what you want to do is create arrangements. Both units can be used to do that. They both have sequencers, or you can use a computer for your sequences and both can be used to do that also. My PSR540 can do this.
Kevin

I looked at several models before I purchased my PSR2000 (from George!). I had played the PSR 550 and then the 740. That was the highest the local music store had. Then I went to another store and they were selling teh MZ2000. I was not impressed with it compared to the features I knew that were on the PSR2000. When I finally made my decision, based on the trials on the keyboards I could find and a LOT of research on the web, I went with the PSR2000 untested.
I have not been dissapointed with it. I performs as advertized and is a remarkable keyboard for the money. The MZ2000 was the same price in my area. It did not have the vocal harmonizer (an option that is getting very popular with my kids for karaoke) as well as other options that I use.
I would not hesitate to recommend the PSR2000 depending on your needs. I am pleased with the support that I got through George Kaye as well. The people on this forum know their stuff and I would recommend going through the archive to see if previous discussions help you make your decision easier.
Good luck,
- Brian

Well, I appriciate very much all of Your responses and hope to be of some use to the community later on with my new keyboard

[This message has been edited by jrudnitz (edited 09-28-2002).]