This is Tiger from Rhode Island. I have been reading topics of this forum for about 3 months. I really would like to have a Tyros. But people keep saying that there is no big difference between 3000 and Tyros other than the after-touch. Can some guru tell me what is the reall difference between those two keyboards, in terms of hardward, software and build-quality?

I heard that Tyros got a better computer inside and the keys feels better.

---

Thank you Dnj,Arno,ScottL and ScottY. This certainly clarifies some misconceptions among many Tyros Fans. I didnot notice there is such a big technical difference. I actually thought I could upgrade 3000 by upgrading the OS system. I was awefully wrong!!!

Hope this will help new Tyros buyers make an Easier choice between 3000 and Tyros

[This message has been edited by tigerfool (edited 11-13-2004).]

Thank you DnJ:

I have read that. So to sum up:

3k:
USB drive, speakers,
Tyros:
hardisk option, after-touch, "probably" better DSP,better keys,larger screen, more one touch buttons.

But is that all? I think there must be some more differences. People say that the voice on Tyros is better. I guess the computer inside Tyros might be different.

Tyros got 96MB compressed sound vs 64 MB
Tyros have 9 DSP's vs 7 on the 3000
Tyros have more rotary effects 16 vs 8
Tyros 3 voices Right hand vs 2
Better ,tiltable Display
Much better soundchip, heard it today at a Yamaha Demo here in Holland.(Michel Voncken)
Tyros have song pos markers,Night design,300+ styles (incl Harddisk with styles) etc etc.
Regards,
Arno

I own a Tyros and A/B'd it with a PSR3000.

The tone is NOT identical. The Tyros has a noticibly richer, fuller sound, by a long shot, IMHO.

The PSR3000 is very nice for what it is intended for, but it is NOT a Tyros, anymore than the Technics KN2600 was NOT a KN7000 in sound.

If you're not sure, it certainly would be best to A/B them yourself, and then see if the difference is important to you or not. I know it is for me and my wife who also plays.

Best

Scott Langholff

Tiger, I like BOTH the Tyros & PSR3000, but in addition to what's already been said by others here, the IMPORTANT diffences(for me personally) and which keep me with the Tyros and not (yet) adding the PSR3000 are:

1. significantly larger 'user' memory storage capacity allowing me to include MORE custom styles directly accesible to the Yamaha Music Finder.

2. 3 vs. 2 foot pedal controler assignments. I require a MINIMUM of 3 for what I do: sustain, fill self, vocal harmony on/off

3. in addition to mic trim knob on both 3000 & Tyros, the Tyros alone has a dedicated mic volume knob on top of the keyboard, for quick convenient on the fly volume adjustments (a must have on stage).

4. significantly better (quick, more responsive) key feel. The PSR3000 imho feels spongy.

5. Much Larger (and in color) LCD screen, making it much easier to view and navigate, with larger arranger buttons (some lighted) making it easier to correctly select.

The MAIN advantages of the PSR3000 is PRICE and built in speakers, as well as slightly lighter weight (24 vs 27 lbs) transport convenince. The primary advantage of built in speakers is for use as personal onstage monitors, but from a professional (on stage) VISUAL standpoint, they give the keyboard impression to most people as looking more suited for home use. That said, I've appreciated the built in speakers on my former keyboards (Technics KN5000 & PSR2000), but don't miss them on the Tyros, as I have the option to add/remove them as desired, depending on the gig.

I concur with Scott Langholf's remarks. I too had the opportunity to A/B the Tyros side by side with a PSR3000 and DID notice a significant sound improvement quality difference.

In closing, if Santa brings a PSR3000 down my chimney, I would still be thrilled.


- Scott

Today, me and my friend Marcio (Music sudent and Tyros owner), recorded songs with 3000 and Tyros.
The same songs, the same recorder ( Sound Forge 7 ), the same cables + Sound Blaster Audigi.
I think that the result was the SAME.
Another tip: the storage system of 3000 (pen drive) is better and faster than HD storage of Tyros via Usb.
Overthere ,another important issue for profi musicians: a pen drive( in your pocket ) is most secure than an installed HD in front of vibrations and shocks.
Otherwise the 3000 screen(smaller than Tyros) is MUCH better than Tyros in live jobs under sunlight. In this issue Tyros is horrible
At last , Tyros costs the double than 3000 and do not have advantages to justify that difference, IMO.

Cheers
Chico


[This message has been edited by ChicoBrasil (edited 11-13-2004).]

[This message has been edited by ChicoBrasil (edited 11-13-2004).]

Hmmmmmmm..... they sound the SAME.
They sounds DIFFERENT.
Hmmmmmmmmmm....................
A puzzlement !

PEACE

Chico

Hello

Each to his own, of course, However, I A/B'd them both through my JBL Eons. I put in a dummy jack on the 3000 so as to make a fair comparison of sound without the onboard speakers playing.

They sounded very different to my wife and I. I tried to set the mixer on the 3000 to get the sound I like on the Tyros and it never happened. I did not try them set to flat, as I do not play that way.

Maybe they sound more similar if one likes to play with a flat sound. Also, maybe they record sounding the same, but different through speakers??

I know that recordings can sound a lot different than live play. I remember how wowed I was when I heard the Korg PA80 online demo. I thought, wow, I've got to get one of those. It doesn't have that kind of sound live, I was sorry to find out.

Just my slant on it.

Scott Langholff

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 11-13-2004).]

Whether actual fact, or mere fantasy, perhaps our evaluation is at least partially (and sub-consciously) influenced by a need to justify the purchase of the keyboard we happen to own ourselves at the moment. Perhaps the best 'unbiased' side by side sound comparison should be performed by someone who has no vested interested in either of the kbs and owns neither a Tyros or PSR3000. - Scott

I agree with you, ScottY.

Many Tyros buyers want to justify their buy.

About the sound quality, I think it is just like the format of MP3. To me, I cannot tell the difference between a 128K MP3 song and a 192K (so called redundant recording) song.

For now, I think the sound quality difference between 3000 and tyros is just the picture quality between Canon Digital Rebel and Nikon D70---different people feel quite differently. Yes, technically a 92M compressed ROM might provide better sound quality, but I suspect the difference might be way beyond the capability of our ears.

[This message has been edited by tigerfool (edited 11-13-2004).]

Yes, and equally true as well, many PSR3000 may feel they need to justify their purchasing decision as well.


That said, if 'you' can't tell, or don't care, about the differences (both sound & features) between the PSR3000 & Tyros, by all means save yourself $ and get the PSR3000, as I've always been the FIRST one here to say, the PSR3000 remains the best bank for the buck keyboard out there. Tigerfool & all, if you can't hear or appreciate the audible difference between a 128 kbps MP3 file and the original uncompressed CD cut, then I'm sure the PSR3000 sound will suit you well, but since I 'can' hear & appreciate the sound improvements on the Tyros, the Tyros is my personal choice. Of course there are unique features on the Tyros that aren't included on the PSR3000 to take in consideration as well. Your purchasing decision should be based on how important these features (or lack of) are important to you. Bottom line here is that I feel both PSR3000 or Tyros are good choices at their respective price points.

Scott

Hello

Just a note from one Tyros owner that is not trying to justify my purchase, nor am I playing "my toys are better than your toys".

If the PSR3000 sounded IDENTICAL or VERY, VERY SIMILAR to the Tyros I would have one. I was ready to buy, and it didn't so I didn't.

But, again, the key here is to A/B them side by side, and see if there is enough of a difference, for you. PSR3000 sure will satisfy a lot of peoples needs. Especially those trading UP.

If one has a Tyros for a period of time, it is a noticable switch that is a let down. Not trying to cut it down, but it is not the same.

This is only intended for those that are going to order one without ever trying one and just going on what others say.

I suggest at least a 30 day trial on any new keyboard. There are just too many things to check out on a keyboard to spend a short time, or even no time trying it out, regardless of the amount of money spent.

Would an audience care if you played a PSR3000? Probably not. They would be happy to hear a PSR2000. I know that from the very positive reactions I got from the crowd.

Would the audience be able to hear a difference if they heard an A/B test between the Tyros and the PSR3000? Yes.

Try the Jazz Organ. Just this one voice is so much different I'm suprized they used the same name.

Again, this is only meant to point out there is a considerable difference between the two. If someone wants and enjoys the PSR3000, then good for them. But, they are different. That's my only real point for perspective buyes.

Best
Scott Langholff

The Tyros looks, sounds and "feels" better. It has lighted buttons, hard drive, several dedicated buttons they removed from 3000, 3 right-hand voices, better keys, more footswitch options, and more User memory.
After using the Tyros, I borrowed Hank the Lurker's 3000 for a job. {Thanks Hank!} It did the job "just fine", but I can't see myself playing one regardless of the price, AFTER using the Tyros. If I had never played the Tyros, the 3K would be fine until something better comes along.
The new Roland sounds as if it will be a contender, but we'll have to wait and see, AND see about the pricing thing.
DonM

hi all, i had the same dillema,tyros or psr3000,my opinion two good boards,if you are going to gig with it and you can afford it go for the tyros,also tax deductable,if not go for the 3000,i just ordered mine should be here next week ,what did i go for?psr3000,mike

It's a very interesting discussion.
It seems that each owner wants to justify your purchase, but I think that the question is just one.
Have the Tyros (excellent) a pack of features to cost the double of 3000 (excellent,too)?
I am speaking for kbdists , because for the audience is all the same thing.
Years ago , I owned a Roland Em 2000, that I changed for a G1000, because G1000 had features to justify the change (G1000 didn't cost the double of Em2000).
My thought : the honour of top line, costs for tyros some money( the same for PA1X, for ex.).
Just an idea
I am working in my new HP, that will have recorded Mp3s. I will record some songs with Tyros and others with 3000. My SZ friends will know what songs was recorded with Tyros or 3000. (kind experience)

Cheers
Chico

[This message has been edited by ChicoBrasil (edited 11-14-2004).]

I went to buy a Tyros 3 weeks ago. A salesman (who didn't have a Tyros) said that the 3000 is exactly the same in sound, and that the features on the Tyros weren't worth paying for (as has been said here.) I thought great! I'll save £800 and get built in speakers! But I wanted to be sure, so I went to Chappell who have both on demo. I played the same song, using the same pre-set beat, using the same earphones. When I played the Tyros, I thought the sound was amazing - it really inspired me. When I played the PSR3000 it sounded exactly like my PSR640, with some new sounds and beats. I wasn't going to pay £1000 for a keyboard that is basically the same as the one I got already. I brought the Tyros right there. The 3000 sounds tinny and 'keyboardy' compared to the Tyros. No question.

Thanks everybody. I now understand the difference. I didnot buy one yet. But I did try a Tyros in GuitarCenter. It really amazed me.

About if Tyros justifies the price difference. I think it does. From what everybody says above, I think it really does although the difference might be minimal to somebody.

As I've often said in the past, if the Tyros had internal speakers I would have purchased one when they first became available. I've even tried to figure ways to install them, but this would, unfortunately, void the waranty. Hopefully, the next Tyros will have speakers, and with luck Yamaha will not eliminate a large number of essential buttons, knobs and desirable features.

Gary

Why do you favor your internal speakers so much? What do they do for you that makes you appreciate them so?

I'm in a mad rush to finish a CD made entirely on the 3k, so after it's ready I'll post some examples on my website and you can listen to some direct recordings. I'll be ready b4 the month is out.

zalmi,when you play a keyboard they do sound bland until you adjust the eq settings,there is a possibility that someone had come into the shop to try out a tyros and adjusted the eq,so in the comparisons one would sound a lot better,just a thought,mike

Uncle Dave,
Can you make those samples LONGER than the samples you have out there now?

Lucky for me that Don, on his website, had a a sample of yours that was at a good length to listen too.

BTW, You Don and SO MANY others are doing a very fine justice to whatever keyboards you choose. Where there's a will (and some talent) there's a way.

I recently bought a Tyros. It was a used one and I paid around £100 more than the price that the 3000 is selling for here in the UK.

In my opinion, if you ensure that the boards are EQd the same (or thereabouts) then there is very little difference in the sounds when comparing like for like. This was based on a limited 1 hour comparison excercise in the music store.

However, there are OTS settings on the Tyros that use all three RH voices for things like brass or orchestral ensembles and this does make a difference. Likewise, there are more live drums on the tyros which is important to me and the style of music I play.

The additional controls are important in a live setting and the additional user memory is also important if you use the MFD live as Scott said.

To conclude - I wouldn't have paid for a new Tyros as the additions are not worth the extra in my opinion but buying a used model narrowed that to an acceptable price I was prepared to pay (although don't forget I don't have a warranty)

Hope this helps Tiger

Sure ! I think there's enough room on my site to post a few complete tunes. Some of the titles are:

Almost like being in love
Laura(instrumental)
People will say we're in love
Night and day
Just the way you look tonight
The nearness of you
Where or when
I wanna be around
NYNY
and maybe Georgia .... not sure yet on that one.

Stay tuned!

Ed.....I too have made most of my demo songs on my site 1 min+ or so in lenght just to give people a taste, a few are full lenght also for effect..... The original full lenght recordings are merely edited down for the website.
CD sales versions are all full lenght.

dnj


------------------
www.donnypesce.com

You lucky people, I can never found a used one here! People like Tyros so much, they do not ever want to sell it.

I never liked 'em....I sold all three I got my hands on. I'll see if another one turns up for ya !

Dear Uncle Dave, you got three and then sold them? Hard to believe. Tyros is really my dream machine that I cannot imagine I will part with once I got one before Christmas.

Excellent point. I demoed a PSR2100 which sounded worse then a PSR1500. I was thinking how could that be, if it has more wave ROM.
Starkeeper

I'm very particular about 2 things.
Key feel, and inyternal speakers.
The Tyros has a stiffer feel, but the key stroke is shorter tham the 3k and somehow, that matters to me. I can "dig in" more and get a better expression from my dynamic interpretations of the music. Maybe it's just me, but even though the action is lighter, I like the longer downward stroke a lot better.
The speaker issue is non-negotiable. I simply must have the full mix - right in front of my face at all times....with or without extranal amplification.

The Tyros sounds fantastic, but so does the 3000, so I really miss nothing.
I don't need to layer more than 2 voices in teh RH, I prefer the USB and SM storage to a hard drive anyway, and the size/weight ratio is the best out there.

I'v espoken out many times about the flimsy, cheesy keys on the psr line, and I STILL hate them all ..... but I hate the 3k a little less than the others. That downward stroke thing is big in my comfort factor. I never got comfortable with the Tyros action, dispite the stiffer feel.
Chocolate and Vanilla, right?

I have just bought a PSR3K...the only thing I miss is NO aftertouch. Excellent fast USB loading styles and files. Any style is loaded in plays within the next bar, about the same as the inbuilt styles. I am surprised just how good the internal speakers perform. I normally play any board through my Reflex Transmission Line Studio Monitors, but the 3K does not embarrass it's self through it's own speakers. When connected to my monitors the performance is very live and vibrant. Excellent board for the price. The Tyros may be better, but not at nearly twice the price.

Nardoni,
it's definitely not the eq. The 3000 sounds very similar to my psr640 in terms of basic sound quality (not actual voices etc.). And even when I eq my 640 on my mixer it doesn't sound as nice as the Tyros. Maybe it has to do with the DSP system on the Tyros (somebody mentioned that here), but the Tyros definitely has a better sound system. The eq only brings out or reduces certain frequencies, it cannot actually improve sound quality that didn't exist to begin with.
Zalmi

The BOTTOM line, play the keyboard you're happiest with. I love (and prefer) the Tyros, but that doesn't mean it's the best choice for someone else. The proof is in the pudding: your MUSIC! , so I hope MORE people will post songs they've created on their keyboard, no matter what the make or model. - Scott

------------------
http://scottyee.com

Scott now your talkin!!!......
"Lets HEAR What Ya Got?" I Always Say..

------------------
www.donnypesce.com



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-18-2004).]

Donny, I still have to pay full price for full length?

So many CD's out here I want to GET... I want to GET another arranger kb too... Christmas is coming...

I guess I'm gonna need to GET a part-time job too!

There is no doubt in my mind that Tyros is better than PSR3K - it would be a real shame on Yamaha if there wasn't a difference. I bought PSR3K because music is my hobby, not my profession. It comes close to the Tyros and they have compatible styles because of the megavoices.
Aftertouch is one thing that I miss on the PSR3K and the other thing is 3 layers for the right voice. With three layers you can make the voices sound more realistic.
I don't know about a better soundchip in the Tyros though. If you want to do an honest A/B test, you have to use the same voices, styles and the same soundsystem at the same volume. And if there is a difference, maybe you can hear it only through a very pricy soundsystem. But if you are a pro, why settle for less than a Tyros? It looks better on stage too. There is no shame in using a PSR3K too, even for a pro, but the Tyros surely looks much better.
Anyway I am enjoying my PSR3K.

------------------
drdalet

Hello drdalet

Yes, they are both great instruments.

I think your summing it up really says it all.

Best
Scott Langholff