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#120088 - 07/29/03 10:54 PM Come one, come all, and inquire within...:-)
Idatrod Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 562
Loc: Oceanside, CA USA
Well I finally got to play the PSR 2100 today. I read a post earlier this evening from a new SZ member whose User ID is: 'surur'. He said he just recently played a PSR 2100 at Guitar Center. He lives in Florida but I decided to call my local GC and sure enough they had just gotten one in. They had one brand new in a box and they had one on display. Well needless to say I cruised on down with the sole intention of checking it out. When I got there I saw that they also had a PSR 1100 on display too. I basically had the Home Keyboard department to myself and immediately went to work. I brought my trusty Sennheiser HD 280Pro Headphones to block out the external noises in the area if need be. And believe me, I need be. Well, I first off played it 'without' the Headphones just to get a "feel" for the natural sound emanating from the internal speakers. First stop was the Live! Grand Piano. I played it extensively, by itself and with Style accompaniment. Verdict? Well, it sounded okay. It might sound better through a good external sound source too. But I- (forgive me for saying this but I am just trying to give an honest personal opinion, okay? ) I didn't like it as well as my current PSR 2000's Grand Piano Voice. The decay was not as natural imo as the PSR 2000's. The lower registers sounded harsher and less realistic imo but that could be because of a slight variance in the PSR 2100's speaker system as compared to the PSR 2000's. But it also sounded that way through my Sennheiser HD 280Pro Headphones. The higher registers sounded a little thin or even slightly brittle. I noticed it also when playing the Live! Grand Piano Voice Demo- the ones that are given for 'each' voice as a preview.

Another thing I didn't really care for was the lighter colored buttons, eg., Intro/Ending, Variation, Multi-Pad, Registration, etc. I would think that if I were playing it in a Live situation under stage lighting, etc. I would have a more difficult time knowing which button to push at a given time because of the blending in effect they project against the light PSR 2100's Keyboard background. The PSR 2000 has 'black' buttons as we all know, at least I think we all know which provides a good contrast against the PSR 2000's surrounding shell background, which makes it easier IMO to navigate the buttons and in the selecting of them during Live Play because they're more readily noticeable, ie., seeable especially I would think under bright light conditions as compared to the PSR 2100's buttons.

The Key feel is the same as the PSR 2000's maybe even slightly worse if that's possible. It had a touch more of that plastic feel to them imo. I could have been mistaken though. Before I make a final judgement on that I would have to play it again in a more personal setting under a more rigorist test.

Is there any thing you liked about it you may ask? Well yes there is as a matter of fact. I liked the new Cool! Jazz Guitar and Jazz Solo Guitar (in that order) very much. I liked the Sweet Flugel Horn more so than the one on the PSR 2000 and the new Sweet! Muted Trumpet is much improved over the PSR 2000's Muted Trumpet imo. I liked the Cool! Electric Organ and Cool! Jazz Organ (in that order) very much too. The Live! Nylon Guitar is a slight step above the PSR 2000's Nylon Guitar. PS: I think the new Live! Classical Guitar is actually the same as the PSR 2000's Nylon Guitar. If you noticed, they eliminated the "Nylon Guitar" altogether from the PSR 2100. It gives you the Live! Nylon or Live! Classical but not just a Nylon Guitar. There is also a Smooth Nylon on the PSR 2100 as there is also on the PSR 2000 but the one on the PSR 2100 sounds a little 'cleaner' than the one on the PSR 2000-which is a good thing IMO. The one on the PSR 2000 sounds a little 'muffled' to me. The new Sweet! Mandolin is a step above the PSR 2000's too. The Sweet! Harmonica is slightly better but not much imo. The new Live! Hyper Brass was the best of the bunch of the new ensemble brasses I thought. The Sweet! Violin was an improvement although ever so slightly imho. I might give it a better rating if I had more one on one time with it and played it more extensively with Style backing. I thought the new Live! Gospel Choir was really cool sounding. Looking back now I didn't play the new Slide Guitar but I did play the Aloha Guitar which had a similar sound (almost a cross between the Pedal Steel and the Hawaiian Guitar) to my ears. The XG voices sounded exactly the same as those on my PSR 2000. If they doubled the Wav ROM it didn't improve the XG Voices at all that I could tell. As I stated in a previous post I am thinking that maybe Yamaha "compressed" the Wav ROM on the PSR 2100 to a 2:1 ratio whereas I think the PSR 2000's Wav ROM is "uncompressed". I could be wrong, (I've been known to have been wrong once or twice in my lifetime- ) But I actually think the "overall" sound on the PSR 2000 is slightly better IMO. Please, please, don't flame me for giving you my honest heartfelt opinion. Your opinion may be just the opposite and I respect that and promise not to flame you because of it. I could possibly change my opinion once I sat down with the PSR 2100 in my Studio and gave it a more thorough going over and hooked it up to my Yamaha MSP5's and my Big Guns, ie., Pioneer HPM 100's which are run through a QSC RMX 850 Power Amp and my Mackie 1202 VLZPro Mixer and compare it side by side to my PSR 2000 running it also through the same system. But before and if that ever happens I thank God I didn't blindly order one on a whim from an online Retailer without playing it first because I think I would have been most assuredly let down after having and knowing the fabulous great sounds I get from my PSR 2000. Maybe it's the internal speakers that are slightly different betwixt the two- "but then again the Sennheiser HD 280Pro's give an unbiased result which I feel leans toward the PSR 2000". Sorry if I offended anybody. I promise to give the PSR 2100 a more rigorous and thorough workout in the near future if that's of any consolation to you PSR 2100 owners. I could reverse my decision especially if and when the other GC in my area (which has a sound proofing door and enclosure where they keep the Home Keyboards), gets one in. That would give me a more precise gauge from which to base my findings. Dont' get me wrong either. The PSR 2100 is an outstanding Arranger Keyboard imo, for both value and in the sound category, so don't let my few negatives keep you from checking it out for yourselves and then deciding for yourselves if it is the Keyboard for you.

Best regards,
Mike

Oh, and one more thing. Someone stated that they thought and believed the PSR 2100's Live! Grand Piano Voice was the same one that is on the Tyros. Let me tell you firsthand that it is NOT the same one that is on the Tyros. If it is then it is an extreme scaled down Sample. I happened to also play the Tyros again while I was down at GC today for about 20 minutes and I noticed right away that the Tyros's Live! Grand Piano is a much better Sample (sound) than the one on the PSR 2100. I feel it is just slightly better than the PSR 2000's though but I also think the Motif ES will blow the socks off of them all and every other Keyboard out there on the market bar none except maybe the GEM Pro Mega3. Too bad it's not an Arranger. Also did you notice that in the Pa1X/Pro's demo's the Grand Piano sounded less than stellar? I hope they didn't put the Original Triton Classic Piano in it. Too bad they didn't give a demo JUST with the Grand Piano exclusively so it could give a person a better idea of its substance and worth. Maybe they will add some more demos in the future on their web site that will showcase the Grand Piano voice. For now I'm still looking toward Winter NAMM 2004 as my only hope for an Arranger that may give me an incentive to upgrade from my PSR 2000 unless that is, the Pa1X/Pro can prove to me it won't buckle "Polyphony wise" after giving it a demanding workout. One note drop off at all under any circumstance is one too many in my book. I already have a "64" note Polyphony Arranger that drops notes occasionally, I don't want to spend $3,500 before taxes and the CD-RW Drive and have a "62" note Polyphony Arranger do the same thing. No way, no how, no, no, no, NO! I won't do it. .... I'm biding my time; whoo who, oh yes, I said- I'm a biding my time, la la la LOL. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img] I've got more patience than money anyway, lol, so I will just enjoy the ride in the mean time until that ultimate Arranger finally beckons me to say to it: come to pappa! [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img] Too bad; the Korg Pa1X could have been it if Korg didn't fizzle out on us by being so skimpy when doling out Polyphony on its new Flagship Arranger. Their loss somebody's else's gain is my way of looking at it. Unless they change their minds and add more Polyphony to the Pa1X before production starts. Usually, if ever, that happens though after they announce a Product release at a major event such as NAMM. But then again stranger things have happened... But don't bet on it.

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 07-30-2003).]

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#120089 - 07/30/03 01:39 AM Re: Come one, come all, and inquire within...:-)
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Mike,
thank you a lot for your review; I really enjoyed it. I would have enjoyed it even more if you could learn the difficult art to say with 100 words what you usually say with 1000.
(It's difficult, but can be done: they call it "concision").

(I hope you can accept a very friendly remark!)
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#120090 - 07/30/03 02:19 AM Re: Come one, come all, and inquire within...:-)
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 731
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
Mike,

Thank you for your detailed and heartfelt review. I feel almost as if I played the 2100 myself.

Unlike Andrea (Dreamer), I don't own one of each keyboard ever made and was glad to read not only the dry facts (which would have achieved said "concision"), but also all the other prose, which conveys the the experience of almost having been there with you.

BTW, I feel the way you do about Korg. What a letdown...

Regards,
Alex
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Regards,
Alex

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#120091 - 07/30/03 06:50 AM Re: Come one, come all, and inquire within...:-)
Uncle Dave Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 11580
Loc: Philadelphia Pa, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Alex K:
BTW, I feel the way you do about Korg. What a letdown...


Wow. People are already "let down" by the words on papaer?
BEFORE they even touch the instrument?

This is why I don't get hyped up before a unit hits the streets. There is no way to ASSume that the polyphony on the new Korg will be awkward. The SD1 handles polyphony terribly, and so does the PSR9000. They both boast DOUBLE the number that the Korg has. Roland's G1000 and Korg's PA80 both have similar limits (62ish) and handle the task beautifly.

I suggest that before you all reach for the tissues...you WAIT to see the PAXwhatever...if in fact it actually gets produced. The NAMM model was said to be a prototype, right? They might scrap this whole idea before production begins.

You can't base opinions on paperwork in an audio world. It's just not possible. Instruments have to be PLAYED to be believed. Reading up on specs is a smart way to be prepared for a demo run, but it is NOT a good judge of the performance of an instrument.

Lighten up till you actually play the thing ... then you can comment, or be sad, or happy, or........whatever. It's not worth the effort expended in speculation.

For me..... well, you know what I like - the 76 key model doesn't interest me at this time, but a smaller, speaker-laden model COULD find it's way into my arsenal.

Take it slow here.....it's too early to pass judgment.
_________________________
Every instrument, every voice, every sound in nature ... these are are all my private tutors ... 24/7 for free, and all I have to do is listen.

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#120092 - 07/30/03 07:03 AM Re: Come one, come all, and inquire within...:-)
The Pro Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 1087
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
Yeah, good read if a little long. The thing about Korg's paper-speak on the PA1-X Pro is that the keyboard could sound better on paper than in reality - wouldn't that be a kicker? It wouldn't be the first. If any changes are made prior to release, it'll probably be to that high list price.

Strange thought: y'know all this dissatisfaction with the yet-to-be-released Korg PA1-X Pro's polyphony reminds me of a cheaper, great-sounding pro-level arranger with more than double the polyphony of any Korg at this point, and it's polyphony is expandable up to 208 notes! It's called the Yamaha 9000 Pro. I wonder if all this fuss will encourage Yamaha to continue to upgrade and enhance the 9kPro's OS and keep it on the market longer? All indications are that it may still be a better instrument at the age of three by the time the PA1-X Pro is released. And let's not forget that Korg will undoubtedly have to tweak and refine the bugs out of the PA1-X Pro's OS anyway... so this time next year we could be talking about the features of the 2.05 OS on the 9000 Pro compared to the 1.01 OS of the PA1-X Pro. Now if we could just get Yamaha's corporate left and right hands to work together at the same time...

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 07-30-2003).]
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Jim Eshleman

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