Ok, I'm finally ready to take the plunge and purchase a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) recorder as a Christmas present to myself.

I need a high quality sounding 24 bit recorder (which also includes an integrated CD burner), but I only require 4-8 simultaneous record inputs. Second only to exceptional audio, I require a unit which is 'user friendly', and also includes an easy to navigate LCD display screen.

My primary use will be for recording my 'live' vocal/Tyros keyboard performances for both demo & commercial CDs. I want the ability to utilize the DAW for the 'entire' production process: from inital recording, to burning the completed CD, but would also like the option of importing DAW tracks to: Soundforge, Cool Edit, or Sonar for post production work, if desired.

I'm looking for a DAW under $1,500. I'm leaning towards the Yamaha AW16G, but curious how long the AW16G has been out now, and if/when another model replacing it real soon (say within the next month or so).

I'm also curious how the AW16G's features and its 'ease of use' compares to similarly priced DAW's offered by: Zoom, Roland, and Korg and others.

Thanks to all for your valued input.

Scott

Hi Scott. Jeez, you already have Sonar so you're halfway there IMHO - why duplicate (and limit) your studio with a dedicated hardware DAW? And SoundForge is all you need for mastering... maybe you want to think about beefing up your desktop computer and turning it into a DAW with a nice interface? One thing that looks awesome and is in your price range is the new Yamaha O1x mixer/Firewire interface


but it you want to go on the cheap, Tascam's US-122 USB interface will let you record two tracks at a time and has phantom-powered mic inputs for $200. I've used that a lot lately and have no complaints. I even use it with my laptop for field recordings.

BTW: this may also be of interest - my Christmas present is going to be the Novation Remote 25 Xtreme . It's a two octave controller with lots of knobs and buttons for controlling softsynths like Reason, plus it's a two-channel audio interface, and it's a K-Station VA synth.

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 12-08-2003).]

Hi Jim (the Pro): I'm primarily interested in a hardware DAW for the portability & convenience of recording 'outside' the studio. I had also considered going the laptop route, but assumed that a hardware DAW recorder would be more convenient to operate because it actually includes dedicated physical 'recording' transport buttons, while a laptop requires fiddling (mousing) around with a pointer device. I also thought that hardware based DAWs provide better stability & reliablility than laptop software programs can. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Curious how much I would need to spend on a laptop (speed, RAM, HD size) to support audio recording. Any suggestions?

Btw: Looks like the cool Novation keyboard piece you're getting for Xmas should easily slide down the chimney.

Scott

I've heard good things about the Yamaha AW16G. In fact it's suppose to be the best DAW dollar for dollar of any DAW on the market right now. It has been out about a year and a half and still holds its own as far as a cutting edge product goes.

But I have to agree with Jim that the best thing might be to boost your Computer's power and capability. Then use the extra money to get this:

Digi 002R Music Production System

SAVE $95.01 (7%) When You Buy Today!
List: $1,295.00
Sale Price: $1,199.99 @ www.musiciansfriend.com


An affordable FireWire-based Pro Tools mini studio!

Packs all the punch of Digi 002 (minus the control surface interface) into a 2U rackmountable unit.

Create everything from top-notch demos to masterful DJ mixes to superb radio spots, all with 24-bit clarity and up to 96kHz sample rate support. Analog, digital, and MIDI capabilities for a wide variety of I/O configurations, with dedicated monitor and headphone outputs.

Single-box design includes a sole FireWire connection to your PC or Mac (OS 10.2.5), so you just plug in and go. No additional hardware is required -- great for laptops. Everything you need to create professional audio productions with Pro Tools ease, power, and flexibility. FireWire-based portability makes it equally viable for studio and live applications.

8 channels of balanced analog I/O, 8 channels of ADAT optical I/O, and 2 channels of S/PDIF I/O, all easily accessible via the back panel. 4 mic preamps with 48V phantom power; 96 kHz converters; one MIDI Iin and 2 MIDI out ports for a total of 16-in/32-out MIDI channels; a separate unbalanced RCA-based, --10dBV main input and output (for recording from/to cassette decks or CD players); and an alternate source input for monitoring tape or CD players at the touch of a button.

24-bit robust signal throughout. Sample rates extend up to 96kHz, and a >105dB dynamic range further ensures the sonic quality of your end results. Whether you are working with raw audio, MIDI, or a combination of the two, Digi 002 Rack and Pro Tools LE work together seamlessly to allow you to optimize your time and creativity. Ships with the latest 32-track Pro Tools LE software, giving you greater functionality and ease-of-use than ever before.

RTAS/AudioSuite-format plug-ins offer even more production options. Pro Tools LE software includes a variety of professional Digidesign plug-ins with the DigiRack plug-in bundle. And, as Digi 002 Rack includes native support for the RTAS format, you can always augment your system with a large variety of professional plug-ins created by Digidesign.

Connecting the Digi 002 Rack to your computer is as simple as plugging in a FireWire cable, which facilitates the flow of all audio streams, MIDI data, and Pro Tools control data between Digi 002 Rack and your host computer. For storage and throughput, an extra FireWire port allows you to connect another FireWire-capable device, such as an external hard drive, to your computer while simultaneously running the Pro Tools application. For Windows XP users, Digi 002 Rack works with leading 1394 (FireWire) controller cards.

Digi 002 Rack works with any FireWire-enabled system to give you serious creative power. You're not restricted to bulky, desktop CPUs, nor to a software-only working environment. And your sessions are equally viable in your own studio and in a professional Pro Tools TDM studio, sharing the same interface, and in many respects, the same functionality.

No other product prepares you as effectively to make the transition from an all-in-one home/project solution to a professional DAW environment. And, no other product can touch the value.

Features:

Single FireWire connection to PC or Mac host computer
8 analog inputs with 4 mic preamps with individual gain and high-pass filter
48V phantom power enabled on channel pairs
8 analog outputs
Outputs 1 & 2 mirrored on 1/4" TRS monitor output (with dedicated volume control), headphone output on 1/4" TRS (with dedicated volume control knob), and RCA-based --10dBV fixed output
8 channels of ADAT optical I/O or 2 channels of optical S/PDIF I/O
2 channels of S/PDIF I/O on RCA connectors
Alternate source Input for direct monitoring of --10dBV audio equipment (CD players, tape players, etc.)
24-bit/96kHz converters, up to >108dB dynamic range and >98dB (0.002%) THD+N
MIDI I/O--1 IN port, 2 OUT ports (16 channels in, 32 channels out)
Footswitch for QuickPunch control
2U rackmountable chassis
Support for PC and Mac (OS 10.2.5)
Specifications:

A/D:

Sample rate: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96 kHz

Max Input:
Inputs 1-4 (mic): +3 dBu
Inputs 1-4 (line): +18 dBu
Inputs 5-8 (line/+4 mode): +18 dBu

Gain Range:
Inputs 1-4: Mic Setting: +15 - +65 dB; Line/DI Setting: +0 - +50 dB
Inputs 5-8 -- fixed +4 dBu or --10 dBV, -14 dB headroom
Mic E.I.N (unweighted):
Inputs 1-4: --126 dBu @ 65 dB gain, 150 ohm source, 20 Hz -- 20 kHz

THD+N:
Inputs 1-4 (mic): 0.004%, 62 dB gain see 1,3
Inputs 1-4 (line): 0.004%, +17 dBu signal (minimum gain) see 1,3
Inputs 5-6: 0.002% @ +17 dBu input level
Inputs 7-8: 0.003% @ +17 dBu input level

Dynamic range: see 1,2
Inputs 1-4: >101 dB (A-weighted), 98 dB (unweighted)
Inputs 5-8: >108 dB (A-weighted), 105 dB (unweighted) see 5
Alt Source Inputs: >99 dB (A-weighted), 97 dB (unweighted)

Frequency Response:
+0.15 / -0.5 dB, 20 Hz -- 20 kHz

Input Impedance:
Inputs 1-4 (XLR): 2 kohm
Inputs 1-4 (1/4"): 10 Mohm

D/A

Sample Rate:
44.1, 48, 88.2, 96 kHz

Max Output:
Main (1-2), Monitor, and Outputs (3-8): +18 dBu
Alt. --10 dBV Outputs: +4 dBV
Headphone Outputs: +15 dBu, 150 ohm load

THD+N: see 1,3,4
Main Outputs: <0.0016% (-95 dB)
Monitor Outputs: <0.0016% (-95 dB)
Outputs 3-8: <0.0023% (-93 dB)
Alt. --10 dBV Outputs: <0.0023% (-93 dB)

Dynamic range: see 1,3,4
Main Outputs: 114 dB (A-weighted), 112 dB (unweighted)
Monitor Outputs: 112 dB (A-weighted), 110 dB (unweighted)
Outputs 3-8: 114 dB (A-weighted), 112 dB (unweighted)
Alt. --10 dBV Outputs: 98 dB (A-weighted), 95 dB (unweighted)

Frequency Response:
+0.15 / -0.5 dB, 20 Hz -- 20 kHz

Output Impedance:
50 ohms
1 - Measurement made using balanced connectors
2 - ADC measured -60 dBFS method with a gain setting such that +18 dBu = 0 dBFS at S/PDIF output
3 - Measured relative to level at 1 kHz
4 - Measured with digital input at -60 dBFS @ 1 kHz
5 - Measured using "+4" setting
Incredible power at your fingertips for a fantastic price. Order today and break into true pro-quality recording.

The only bad thing about it is it is a non-returnable item if you buy it at Musicians Friend. If you bought it at a local GC perhaps you would be able to return it if you wound up not liking it. I would definitely ask the Manager about that before you bought it though.

Best regards,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 12-08-2003).]

Scott:
For ease of use, portability, great sound, and price under $1,500, take a look at the Korg D1600.

Scott,

For ease, portability, convenience, reliability and all the wonderful things you need to record, and priced under $1,500 there's nothing better than your laptop. It will do everything the DAW does, plus a lot more. If you'll recall, about a month ago we had Terry record the same song using a DAW and his computer. No one knew which was which until near the end of the post when it was revealed. Nealy 80 percent of the folks that listened to both voted for the computer recording for having the best overall quality. In the end, it's what sounds best to others that counts--stick with the laptop.

Good Luck on whatever you decide upon,

Gary

Scott

Here is a Professional review from Remix Mag Online regarding the DIGIDESIGN DIGI 002 RACK. NOTE: You will need a 'speedy' Computer to use it optimally. PS: For UD's sake I will just post the link instead of adding the text here in my post.
http://remixmag.com/ar/remix_digidesign_digi_rack/index.htm

Best regards,
Mike

Scott,
Last thing I heard from a friend, Roland will be releasing a new Multi-track Hard Disk Recorder in the winter NAMM next month. It will fit your budget (or less) and it has everything you’re looking for, plus, it’s this year’s model (Not as old as the AW16). Also, the specs are unbelievable for this price range.
You can make an exception this year and celebrate Christmas one month late and get yourself a gift by the end of January.

Maged

Well guess what guys, I went ahead today (12-08) & purchased the Yamaha AW16G. (12-09 addendum: subsequently traded in AW16G for Korg D1600MKII: see reason at end of this specific posting) I just couldn't turn down what seems like a good price ($899) and that the unit also comes with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee with a full refund if for any reason I don't like it. Though I realize purchasing a laptop might provide more flexible options, it (plus hardware interface, soundcard, & additinal software) would surely cost a bit more than what I paid for the AW16G. I guess I could have waited till the new Roland similar price point model comes out, but I guess I just had to have my MTV (I mean DAW) NOW ! Oh well, I suppose if I find out the Roland is going to be 'that much' more improved than the AW16G, I could just trade up to it (within 30 days). Does anyone here know what improvements/new features the next generation of DAWs will include?

I'm now anxious to find out for myself if the AW16G delivers the DAW recording ease, convenience, & sound quality that a number of you here (Roel, Uncle Dave, Terry Telson, etc) have expressed. I did get a chance to watch the AW16G's accompanying DVD video tutorial and it clearly stated that you can easily export either 'individual' AW16G tracks or the stereo mix downdown to a WAV file and then import it into Cakewalk Sonar, Cubase, or Logic for editing, and (optionally) import it back into the AW16G as well. That's a real big PLUS to me.

One thing that I can't seem to find the answer to is what the record/playback rate of the included AW16G's CDRW/CDR drive is. Anyone know?

Even though I may not always follow everyone's advice , I really DO value & appreciate everyone's opinion here. Thanks for your continued interest & feedback. -Scott

ADDENDUM: 12/9/2003
I EXCHANGED the Yamaha AW16G for a Korg D1600MKII, as the AW16G does not support 24 bit recording while the Korg D1600MKII does. The other feature I like on the D1600MKII (which is not included on the AW16G) is USB interface support and a 40 GB hd, vs 20 GB on the AW16G. The D1600MKII cost me $300 more than the AW16G did though. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 12-09-2003).]

Scott,
Congrats and as you know I have both the new Tascam SX 1LE and laptop. IMO you made a wise decision. The dedicated recorders, record without a hitch, press record and go, done deal, instead of "mousing about."

Prepare yourself to be disappointed though in the speed that it burns to cd. The dedicated recorders are smarter than we are, in that to do a good clean burn one should not exceed 4x's which is painfully slow, but clean. The recorders know this and burn slow. I have burned at many speeds on my pc and at the faster speeds I have had crap recordings that do odd things in players.

I believe if we did a retest of the lap vs the new Tascam, the results would come out differently. That does not really matter though, because either of the 2 in the last test were perfectly acceptable results.

Good luck with the new toy. Merry Xmas to Scott.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html