Dear Alone&Forsaken;

I agree with your statements, but I think some of your answer span various KB groups. The original question was have "arranger Kbs" reached their technological limits. The current software that you mentioned 24 bit sampled, waves etc.. are not available on majority of arrangers. ( I can only think of one that uses wave samples). They are used in studio with a computer, or in soft sythn set-ups and I suppose that is why this thread changed into the software vs. hardware( meaning non-upgradeble arrangers) debate. My view is that independant software companies ( Kontak, giga samples,ampli-tube etc..) who produces sound samples are far superior then what is available on arrangers. SO, the next natural progression is, why can't a keyboard company come up with a modular arrangers, or come up with a midi-controlable KB with arranger template set-up, that can be loaded with whatever sound tables & software one chooses?

Regards;
BN

PS--I agree 100% we companies rehashing old wavetables!!!

"The original question was have "arranger Kbs" reached their technological limits."

Everything stated can be applied to arranger keyboards...and would greatly enhance them. The very fact there is some mystical separation of what people feel is an arranger/worksation/synth is the first thing that has to go for any true progression to take place. Literal minds screw it all up on the keyboard makers end as well as the consumer end.

"The current software that you mentioned 24 bit sampled, waves etc.. are not available on majority of arrangers."

Am I talking to a brick wall...hahaha DUH I think expressing there is something arranger keyboards DONT do on the whole now constitutes a limit that hasn't been reached yet that could be exploited Same thing goes for effects and other things...geeee boggles the freaking mind. Not to start a fight or anything but you just backed up my point while trying to say I was wrong on some level :P Thanks!

What the Fusion from Alesis COULD be should be a template of sorts to build from...sample playback, virtual analog, sequencer, harddisk recording ( at 24bit ), unlimited sample space and so on...for what 1600$. HAH I dont think a few drum fills a few intros and some auto chords on something like a 3000$ Tyros is justified in the least. Just take away the artificial limits on a combo of current gear hahaha and the future would almost be here now.

Hell a 200$ drum machine can replace what most people feel arranger features are.

"why can't a keyboard company come up with a modular arrangers, or come up with a midi-controlable KB with arranger template set-up, that can be loaded with whatever sound tables & software one chooses?"

lol why are people so stuck on a tunnel vision perspective of what constitutes an arranger who knows :P

They CAN do these things and far more...but that would kill the market of upgrading every few years in the vain hope of finally breaking out of the muzack box. Not to be insulting but its the sound as much as the interface and random features that cause people to lap up the same vomit thinking the results are gonna be different this year for some reason.

At this point I have to except because there are musicians who won't change their sounds. I'm not a keyborder but a guitarist. I'm playing the same accoustic guitar which I bought 15 years ago. I don't wanna give 'her' away because 'she' sounds sweeter and sweeter from year to year - believe it or not...
In studio surrounding I'm using a K2000RS (remember the Kurzweil's flagship ten years ago). It gives me all the classical instruments that I need for orchestral arrangements.
BTW: There are some secrets in composing and arranging that let the old tunes sound as new once...

I'm longing for a new sound?...hey, no matter, there are nearly endless posibilities in this 'little black rack' because of its sampling, synthesizing and filtering options. Gimme just one night with my friend and we'd have create the next 20 million dollar sound. No use for other synths - be it hardware or software.

At the other points I've said what I wanted to say...for it is only my opinion...

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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

Hi there,

I was doing research and came upon your posted message. I am wondering if you still remember where you bought the "Little Black Rack" put out by PSG in 1998. Are you willing to sell me yours? Any photo? Your reply is appreciated. You may contact me at the email address at kkin@mofo.com

Thanks.

KK in LA

Phil: Arranger Keyboards (and synthesizer cousins) are probably going to follow the curve to which most other hi-tech gizmos seem attached. Truth is, we probably have no idea what will spark the next spiral of change. My guess is that in five years, maybe more, maybe less, we will see equipment that will absolutely dazzle us.
No matter what, the spiral will not be fast enough for any of us tech-addicts. It is amazing to see the different frequencies to which each of us are tuned on this forum. Despite this, we each contribute in some way and we all benefit from the exchange and camaraderie. RICE

It's only just begun. http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/010433.html
Starkeeper

What innovations are yet to come?

Certainly the sounds will be improved through the constant lowering of memory prices. More memory should mean more sounds and more importantly more variations of those sounds – more detailed pianos, more mega-type voices, etc. Technology already exists that will play subtle variations of sounds on playing the same note on the keyboard both, through playing at different velocities ala mega voices, but also randomly giving each key press a bit of spice.

The above is not specific to arrangers but will migrate from other (regular) keyboards and frankly anything that helps arrangers sound less cheesy is to be welcomed.

On the styles front, KARMA like ideas will affect the playing styles and as more progress is made on the softsynth front these will also be incorporated in arrangers. We may see the almost AI-like interfaces used to make style programming and editing easier.

Of course the other aspect is the unknown. Years ago we had the same debate over analogue synths and then out of the blue came FM. At the time I was bowled over; I hope to be again one day by the next generation of thinking.

On a final note, it’s possible economic or market forces may keep these innovations out of music shops but I tend to think people will always innovate (some of the best innovations happen by accident) and when it comes to technology the rules seems to be if it can be done it will be done and someone will sell it!

Hey guys, we live in good times!! Here is why:

Currently there are several revolutionary trends going on. The world is becoming connected, in the world of music and keyboards/synths/samplers this is totally amazing! It means we are soon able to play together with each other no matter where we are, it means we can share sound samples with each other in real-time, it means we can receive OS upgrades in realtime, buy sound sample banks online without postage delay and so on. This is only one thing. Then we have the sampling revolution that is currently reaching new dimensions. 192 KHz sampling rate on a 24-bit resolution is only the beginning. This will increase which will give us completely new sound experiences since our body is able to adapt the rest of the vibrations that our ears cannot take. This means more realistic sounding instruments playable on keyboards, more possibilities, beautiful sounds and nice experiences! Then we have the surround sound revolution with dvd audio, which will gradually overtake the stereo format completely and give the music new dimensions. Then we have the new trends with AI based music tools, for instance things like the S.A.G.E and chaos engine technologies from Spectrasonics and OASYS from Korg giving us totally new experiences with grooves and sounds. Then we have a bunch of new virtual instruments and effect engines sampled at 192Khz/24 bit coming out. All analog cables and equipment will be wiped out with digital connections and speakers. Keyboards will be equipped with great vocal harmony features and great choirs. Then we will soon have extractable media tracks that are totally portable and give us new sampling possibilities. Keyboards will soon start talking the same language (like XML), which will lead to new editing possibilities. It seems like the list goes on and on...!

Yes! In listings they are strong!!!
If the amplitude in their labors goes one pikometer to the left then the engineers cry out loud "HEUREKA"!!! But I doubt you will take any notice of it...

On the other hand I have to agree that the technical abilities are really amazing nowadays (from the view of a technician like me). Unfortunality I'll furthermore have to buy my guitar strings on foot...ouch...

Sometimes I'm asking myself: "Hey, Sheriff! Where do you think will all this technical evolution lead to?"
And then I ordinarily hear my own voice wispering: "I don't know, man! I don't know! But before my computer will get its blues and start to compose and to improvise it will be the time for me to leave this world...!"

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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)